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Pilgrim……I have made a Hebrew study of the word, and according JEFF BENNER a major Hebrew Scholar on the orginal pictorial language of ancient Hebrew, the “symbol” for the word GOD , WAS THE HEAD OF AN OX, with a shepards STAFF leaning into it. Don’t know where you have came up with what have produced.
God is not a person at all , it is the relationship one has with something, that’s why is say “the LORD “OUR GOD” , the LORD, is the person, and “OUR” GOD IS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT PERSON , God is a word that describes a relationship. IT CAN APPLY TO ANYTHING YOU put your faith and trust in, even your money, or what ever.
The LORD (yehweh) our GOD, Said, you shall have “NO” other GOD BESIDES ME. Jesus quoted this, the LORD “OUR” GOD, is “ONE” LORD. Did you notice who is “OUR” (us and Jesus ‘) God ?, it’s the LORD (YEHWEH ) the ALMIGHTY GOD, he is the one and “ONLY” TRUE GOD.
As I have said , the word GOD describes not a person but the relationship with him. And as scriptures say, “but unto us there is “one” GOD and “one” mediator between GOD and men, “THE MAN” Jesus Christ” . AND AGAIN JESUS said, “that they might know you the “ONLY” true GOD, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. The word “only” means there is no other.
Do you believe Jesus?, if you do, then you must believe what he said right?, and according to him there is “only” “one” true God, all other so-called God are not “true” God’s. Trinitarians are the product of false teachings about who Jesus truly is.
True believers have only one God, and it is not Jesus, it’s is the same God Jesus himself has.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Pilgrim,
YOU:
Where Christians have a disagreement with you is that that MAN was not just a purpose in the will of God but a person/being as it says in Ephesians 1 “hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world”. God by the Apostles through revelations has “made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him”.
That is that God is gathering all back to himself through the preexisting WORD (person not just purpose) who became that Anointed Man to achieve it. Hence He was conceived of the Spirit not a seed of Adamic man.
ME:
We are given that a man was to come from the beginning,
We are given prophecy detailing this man’s coming, this man comes making God’s word of His prophecies true in the flesh,
We are given that God wants to make it clear that we know that this man was God’s plan and purpose from the beginning, even his death on the cross was by God’s determined purpose and foreknowledge, this man’s glory and honor that he would receive was according to God’s determined purpose and foreknowledge, also us being made like this man was according to God’s determined purpose from the beginning.
We are given that this man is a first begotten of the dead, he is a firstborn of many brethren,
We are given that this man sit’s at God’s right hand,
We are given that this man received all the works of God’s hands to have dominion over it,
We are given that a man will judge the world having been ordained by God,
We are given that this man is returning to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh,
Pilgrim, you have the END declared from the beginning, and throughout the bible that END is given unto you in detail.
We ARE NOT promised to become Sons of God according to a pre-existing son, we are not promised to be Sons of God made into the image of a pre-existing son. We are promised to be made into the image of the Second Adam/HUMAN BEING who is a Son of God according to God’s anointing Spirit, where God is all in and thus able to direct all of a humans ways. Why Paul tells you that the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God, and that those that are LED BY the SPIRIT are Sons of God.
Pilgrim all things are gathered together in Christ, and CHRIST IS to this day the son of David who is going to come and sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh.
CHRIST equates to the HUMAN BEING who was was anointed with the fullness of God’s Spirit, we are gathered together in this body as his body is our promised body, as we are promised to be JOINT heirs with Christ, where we too are to receive the fullness of God’s anointing Spirit, as the END is for God to be all in all.
Hi LU,
YOU:
Gene,
You said this: Jesus quoted this, the LORD “OUR” GOD, is “ONE” LORD.
Where is this quote?
ME: I have given this to you a few times now,
Mark 12: 29 And Jesus answered him,The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord OUR God is one Lord:
You admitted that the Father is a God to the Son and that the Father is greater than the Son.
What you seem to refuse to admit to is,
Jesus tells you that his God is our God and his Father is our Father.
You are also told “But to us there is but one God, the Father”
When you say that our God is two persons the Father and the Son, that is a DIRECT LIE AGAINST THE SCRIPTURES.
Instead of believing this word of God you are too busy trying to imagine how the Father and the Son could be one eternal God, giving analogy likening our GOD’S existence according to the processes of closed Mitosis, one cell becoming two identical cells.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
You don’t even change the glory of our God into that of a man or a bird, you reduce His image to be like that of a single cell!
Jodi,
You said:
ME: I have given this to you a few times now,
And you have seen the original language more than once that has shown you that you are mistranslating. How many times would you like to see this, it’s easy to keep showing you but why do you require it?
Jodi,
You said:
you reduce His image to be like that of a single cell!
No, that is not what I have done with the single cell analogy. I have explained how one single cell is expressed as both a father and a son through the asexual process of reproduction. The analogy would help you greatly. Would you like it better if the one single cell expressed itself as only a father through the asexual process of reproduction. That would be the analogy to reflect what you teach.
We are given that the One who was the Firstborn over all creation became also, a man as the first begotten of the dead, he is a firstborn of many brethren,
We are given that the One who was the Arm of God in the OT became a man that sits at God’s right hand,
We are given that the One who made all things in heaven and on earth became a man who has all dominion over all things he had made and is the Lord of lords.
We are given that the One Abraham called the Judge of all the earth became a man that will judge the world.
We are given that the One who had been at his heavenly Father’s side became a man and has returned to his heavenly Father’s side.
That One is the only begotten Son of God, our Lord of lords, at the right hand of God. Hallelujah!
“To Him who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb,
be the praise and the honor and the glory and the power
forever and ever!”
Hi Lu,
YOU: Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Can you see that your translation of this verse adds “lord” at the end where there is no “lord” written in the Greek at the end??
ME:
First of all, Jesus is speaking of his GOD and OUR GOD. Jesus is NOT speaking of himself, he is speaking of HIS God and OUR GOD, and this God the Lord is ONE.
Second, there is NO ADDING of the lord in the English translation, it is just placed a second time after the “one” instead of just prior.
You may find the New Testament Peshitta translations into English interesting,
Etheridge Mark 12:29 – Jeshu saith to him, The first of all the commandments (is), Hear, Israel, The Lord our Aloha is one Lord:
Murdock Mark 12:29 – Jesus said to him: The first of all the commandments [is]: Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:
Lamsa Mark 12:29 – Jesus said to him, The first of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord;
Hi Lu,
YOU:No, that is not what I have done with the single cell analogy. I have explained how one single cell is expressed as both a father and a son through the asexual process of reproduction. The analogy would help you greatly. Would you like it better if the one single cell expressed itself as only a father through the asexual process of reproduction. That would be the analogy to reflect what you teach.
ME: Lu, the entire analogy is abhorrent to me and just plain stupid.
YHWH is ONE there is no other being like Him and never will be.
Jesus is declared even to this day to be a HUMAN BEING who lives in the IMAGE of YHWH.
The prophecies concerning the son of Jesse who will carry out YHWH’S will are NOT YET fully completed.
The son of Jesse is not YHWH but a servant of YHWH, declared to be a Son according to the Spirit, the very Spirit that the son of Jesse was promised to receive.
Jodi,
You said: Lu, the entire analogy is abhorrent to me and just plain stupid.
I know that it challenges your understanding. It probably helps you to belittle it.
YHWH is ONE there is no other being like Him and never will be.
Yes, YHWH is ONE, a unity.
Jesus IS the image of the invisible God…even to this day.
The root of Jesse caused Jesse to exist.
Jodi,
As you can see, this Peshitta translation is the better one:
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua said to him, “The first of all the commandments: ‘Hear Israel, THE LORD JEHOVAH your God, THE LORD JEHOVAH, he is One.’ “Stick to that one.
Hi Lu,
I am giving you an honest opinion to your THEORY. Don’t forget that is what we are discussing here, not debating a scripture, but your theory.
How you could possibly think that something from your imagination you concocted so that you could understand your god, equates to a legitimate challenge, is seriously beyond me.
Hi Lu,
Jesus was speaking of His God and our God, his Father and our Father, he was not speaking of himself.
but for us there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER!!
Hi Lu,
Jesse would have never existed if it were not for God’s promise to anoint his son to bring forth righteousness and life.
His son became the first begotten of the dead. Without his son, he would be eternally dead, and thus there would have been no point in him existing in the first place.
Jodi, I didn’t concoct closed mitosis, you are giving me too much credit.
That was in God’s imagination. Take it up with Him 😉Jodi,
You said: Jesse would have never existed if it were not for God’s promise to anoint his son to bring forth righteousness and life.
Let’s just take it all the way to the top why don’t we…The Father would have never existed if it weren’t for the Son, anointed or not.
Jodi,
There is so much confusion in your reasoning that it is alarming.
It is unfortunate that you fail to understand that Christians believe in the humanity of Christ, and that in that humanity (when manifested) he lived utterly dependent on God, always only doing what God gave him to do or speak, always achieving the prophetic promises concerning him and fulfilling the types and shadows contained concerning him in the OT (“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” Luke 24:27).
Unfortunately too you seem willing to accept that Christ is the offspring of Abraham and David and came after John Baptist (all which is true) yet unwilling to acknowledge the plain meaning of the terms “root” of David and “before” Abraham or “before” John Baptist as referring to him except as a purpose or plan of God concerning the coming MAN. You seem to contort the plain meaning of these words to suit your beliefs. Before in the context used means exist before. Root means that which gave existence to Jesse in the same way offspring means what came out of Jesse.
Unfortunately also you argue for a view of ONE God, ONE Spirit which is yet seven Spirits Of God While at the same time decrying those who believe in ONE God which is the Father, the Word and the Spirit.
In regard to Christ, Christians believe Christ was full of what Isaiah prophesied in 11:1-5. And they also believe that God at creation was moving in wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge and fear(reverence) (See for example Ps 136:9; Proverbs 3:19). Christians believe God is Spirit (John 4) that He is Invisible “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” (John 1:18). Yet you are inconsistent in charging Christians of a triune belief of error when you yourself claim that this One God who is ONE , is One Spirit made up of seven spirits (single being multiple).
I think both you and GeneBalthrop argue wisdom is not a person but a capability or capacity. He this is what scripture says “Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God“ (1 Cor 1:24). Not also that if “power(s)” were what God used to create all things then he used the person of Christ according to this scripture. In a similar view you argue “our” in Mark 12:29 is plural (Christ and his brethren as persons) but won’t allow “our” in Genesis 1 to either be plural or relate to persons/beings. Yet another evidence of inconsistent reasoning I would say.
You claim also that the first Man, Adam, didn’t have the fullness of the Spirit and was bound to fail. Can you show where in scripture it says he was bound to fail? Surely the scripture teach otherwise. God breathed into him the breath of life and gave him one positive command which he expected him to keep, showing what one might say was surprise when said “has Thou eaten …”. By making this claim you charge God with a fault (and possibly with being the author of sin) because he failed to make Adam capable of not sinning. Yet we know the serpent enticed and deceived our human parents into sin and Adam deliberated disobeyed.
GeneBalthrop charged triune believers as Gnostics or of gnostic errors but GeneBathrop and your teachings seem to me to have more in common with the errors of the Gnostics as described in a previous post. Concerning!!!
On the point of Jesus, foreknown, promised and manifested MAN, being full of the seven spirits of God, and receiving a full measure of the spirit (which are true) would that not mean he was full of God, I.e. “the fullness of the Godhead bodily”, “God manifest in the flesh”, “God said unto my God” (and there are many other such scriptures along this line)?
I must say I find your beliefs and reasoning inconsistent, some things true (which I have indicated by agreeing what all Christians believe) yet other things contrary to scripture (as articulated in my posts).
Pilgrim. ….JESUS said “not” me…”GOD IS SPIRIT”, Jesus said, “not” me, “the “Only” true GOD”, Paul said “not” me, unto us, there is but “one” GOD”. Jesus said “not” me….“our” Father who is in heaven” , Jesus said “not” me, the son of man, can do “nothing” by himself”, Jesus said “not” me, “I am going to “my” GOD , and your GOD, my Father and your Father”. Jesus said not “me”, the words I am telling you are not my words , but the words of him who sent me”, Jesus said, “not” me, over 80 times, “he was a son of man”, Jesus said “not” me, I am the root and offspring of King David, my God said “not’ me God is “not” a man that he should lie, nor a “son of Man” , that he should repent”. my God said, not “me”, “I am the LORD that makes “all” things; that stretches forth the heavens “alone”; that spreads abroad the earth by “myself”. my God said, “not” me, “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is “no” God besides me”. QUESTION IS, DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE IT?
Pilgrim can you can honestly agree with those things, and still say Jesus is a God. I can see no connection in those statements that indicates or even hints at Jesus being a God or a triune God connection. JESUS is a human being always was and always will be, just like we are. He never preexisted his birth on this earth , no more the we have, except in the plan and will of his and our, the, ”one and “only” true GOD.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
LU……JESUS most deffenitly was including himself when he quoted , “hear ‘O’ Isreal , the LORD , your GOD is One LORD” . Was Jesus an ISRAELITE of the tribe of Juda?, if so then it applied to him also.
What I can’t understand for the life of me is why you fell the need to even think to deny that? Why should that present any problem to you? Are you so stooped in the false teachings of the trinity you can except it? I think you need to try to be more honest with what our Bible texts really say . Remember what Jesus said, that the deception would be about who He was, “many will come in my name saying I and the Christ and “decieve” many”. This is exactly what modern Trinitarian Christanity has done. They have created a false Jesus. Think about it LU
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene,
I am not denying that Jesus quoted the Shema, I am denying that the words in the Shema are according to the translation that you are using. Your translation is wrong.
Look at the difference in these two translations and see that the difference is huge. Only one of them is in alignment with the original see if you can tell me which one that is as I post the two different translations and the original Greek and Hebrew of the Shema.
Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Now the original language:
Please tell me which translation is the accurate one according to the original language, Gene.
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