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Hi Davo,
Heaven and earth were created by the POWERS (plural) of YHWH’s Spirit. The ONE SPIRIT consists of multiple powers, such is the true Elohiym.
1:1 In the beginning Elohiym (POWERS of YHWH’s Spirit) created the heaven and the earth.
2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YHWH Elohiym (of Powers) made the earth and the heavens,
“elohiym” is also used to represent a false god, like the god of Ekron.
Why is any entity, that is denoted as an elohiym, worshiped and feared?
Answer: Because of their POWERS that they are “believed” to hold.
The very reason why YHWH says HE alone should be worshiped and feared is because He alone exists with POWERS, all other gods we are directly told are FAKE, they have no powers, they cannot even walk or talk, they all are the works of man’s own imagination.
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth,and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretchedout the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.13 I HAVE raised him up in righteousness, and I WILL direct all his ways: he shall build MY city, and he shall let go MY captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
This very passage DESTROYS your doctrine Davo, you and most everyone else on this forum.
The one raised up in righteous is raised up by YHWH. YHWH who there is NONE ELSE, no elohiym besides HIM. He made heaven and earth, HE confirms elsewhere directly He did so ALONE, which is because HE ALONE is elohiym, the true elohiym that ALONE exists with powers.
Exodus 9:16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that MY NAME may be declared throughout all the earth.
Samuel 2:33 God is my strength and power: and HE maketh my way perfect.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY NAME. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as* we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Hi All,
Born and Begotten are interchangeable.
We see both those words used in one passage where they both come from the same Greek word.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
born, begat, begotten – Gennao, to be born, to be begotten
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is OF GOD; and every one that loveth is born OF GOD, and knoweth God.
Born – Gennao, to be born, to be begotten
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit OF THE SPIRIT is LOVE, JOY, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
1 Corinthians 12: 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
John 1: 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
1 Peter 1: 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
2 Corinthians 1: 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. 24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
When one receives the Spirit of love from God, they are born of God in love.
When one receives the Spirit of faith from God, they are born of God in faith.
When one receives the Spirit of wisdom from God, they are born of God in wisdom.
When one receives the Spirit of truth from God, they are born of God in truth.
When one receives the Spirit of peace from God, they are born of God in peace.
God begets unto mortal man measures of His Spirit according to His will, such is an anointing of His Spirit.
There is ONLY ONE MORTAL MAN who was born/begotten of God’s Spirit without measure. The son of Jesse received the Spirit of wisdom, understanding, council and might, knowledge and fear of the LORD.
ONLY ONE MORTAL MAN was CALLED to RIGHTEOUSNESS, having God direct all His ways, to fulfill God’s covenant, a man sent to be for a LIGHT.
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and MY GLORY will I not GIVE to another, neither my praise to graven images.
ONLY ONE MORTAL MAN would be begotten of the LORD full of His GLORY, the full anointing of His Spirit. By the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD this man would be full of grace and truth.
“only begotten” monogenes, only, one of a kind
John 1: 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF grace and truth.
This only begotten Son died but was raised again receiving the promised Holy Spirit, where He became a first begotten of the dead. He is no longer an only begotten, he is now a firstborn, where there will be many begotten as he is.
God’s word made true,
Psalms 89: 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
B@kowr – firstborn (used throughout OT to represent firstborn to differentiate between other children)
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Prototokos Firstborn -first begotten
Col 1: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who IS the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Prototokos Firstborn –first begotten (NOT MONOGENES)
1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross,
Prototokos Firstborn –first begotten
Hebrews 1: 6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Prototokos Firstborn -first begotten
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Prototokos Firstborn -first begotten
Before the world began our ONE GOD, the Father promised eternal life unto mankind. In the beginning His word was righteousness and salvation, and His word was that of mankind being made in His own image. It is the Spirit that gives us life the flesh profits nothing, where the Spirit dwells within in fullness there is no sin, and when there is no sin there is no death but life eternal.
I came across this forum while on the internet. I notice the discussion between Jodi and GeneBalthrop and T8, Carmel, LightenUp and Davo.
I would have to side with T8, Carmel, LightenUp and Davo and make these comments regarding what Jodi and GeneBalthrop have said.
A. In relation to the nature of God I note:
1. God is referred to by a number of names in the Bible – not just a single name. In fact, one of the ways God reveals Himself in scripture is through His names. And, each of these names has great significance. Each of God’s names tells us something important about God, His character and nature and how He relates to us.2. ELOHIYM is a name of God not a description of His powers. It occurs not only in Genesis but Isaiah, Psalms, Nehemiah and Hebrews. It is a plural noun and combined with the terms “us” & “our” which are 1st person pronouns indicates Elohiym is a personal being. If Elohiym were “Powers”, that being a general word personal pronouns would not be used.
3. Bearing this in mind it says in Genesis 1:26 “Elohiym said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” and then in Genesis 1:27 “Elohiym created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” Mankind is a unique kind of creation. There is only one of human kind but yet made up of two types of persons with different roles and responsibilities of men and women. If Man be in God’s image this shows us that the Elohiym, though being one God is at least bipartite in persons, each with different roles and responsibilities. Adding to this what the Apostle Paul said (and bearing in mind human kind is in God’s image) “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23), it would appear God is tripartite.
It is important to allow the plain language of scripture mean what it says and not twist it to suit a belief system.
B. In relation to the person of Christ Jesus, Anointed Jesus, Messiah Jesus:
1. All Christians believe Jesus to be MAN, the Son Of MAN, a flesh and blood person. So no one is disputing the very lovely and precious scripture speaking of Jesus as MAN which are quoted by Jodi and GeneBalthrop. Jesus as Man spoke to his heavenly Father and of Calvary and resurrection say, “My Father and your Father, My God and Your God”. To repeatedly point at Jesus as MAN and quote scriptures to prove it misses the issue.2. The issue is twofold:
i. Is Jesus a son of Adam or the Lord from heaven, conceived of the Holy Spirit, the second MAN? It seems to me Davo has presented the correct view and backed it up very well with scripture without the need to twist it but give it it’s plain meaning. Jesus could not have come of disobedient Adam (or Eve) otherwise he would have had Sin. Jesus was a second MAN, and LAST ADAM (at Calvary only) not a second ADAM a very important distinction.ii. Is Jesus divine? The same argument applies here as in A above. John 1 says in the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was GOD. It goes on to talk of the WORD as a “him”, and that within him was life (the Eternal Life spoken of in 1 John 1). Again a personal pronoun is associated with WORD indicating a person is spoken of. The words are plain without the need to twist them to say something else. This is all said of the WORD before He was made flesh and blood and is consistent with Philippians 2.
It is extremely important we take note of something said in Ephesians 3. In order to understand the mystery of Christ the Apostles and Prophets needed a dispensation Of grace and receive revelation. Things not made known to sons of men in former ages (OT), needed this special revelation. The NT sheds light on the OT and gives proper understanding to it’s contents. Jesus is the substance of what was shadowed, typed and prefigured in the OT.
We must not have belief systems built on human wisdom and logic, but on the revelation of the Holy Spirit Of God and let the plain words of scripture mean what they say.
Jodi,
Christians all over the world see this passage as referring to the Son being born/begotten/brought forth. This happened before creation.
Proverbs 8
22Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills was I brought forth;
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, Nor the beginning of the dust of the world.
27When he established the heavens, I was there: When he set a circle upon the face of the deep,
28When he made firm the skies above, When the fountains of the deep became strong,
29When he gave to the sea its bound, That the waters should not transgress his commandment, When he marked out the foundations of the earth;
30Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him,
31Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men
I hope that helps, LU
LU……YOU ARE DESCRIBING what scripture says about the Atrabute of what wisdom is. That has nothing to do with a individual person but a quality a person can pocess. Trying to make it a person it self would be forcing the text to say what in fact it does not say.
There are Seven Spirits of God, wisdom is one of them, which works in the mind of God, and all those also who have it .
Jesus has the seven Spirits of God, given him by the anointing Spirit of God, which he received after he was baptized.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene, many Christians all over the world see the Son who is the wisdom of God in that passage. You have to have a willing heart to have those “eyes.” I realize that you don’t. I’m sure it is partly due to the poor translation that you cling to as well as your denomination that you belong to.
Hopeful, LU
Pilgrim. …..welcome to the site. I would like to ask you a question, have ever considered that ELOHIM is a (uni-plural) word, by uni-plural, I mean one thing made up of different things, EXAMPLE , one God made up of seven destination spirits. called in scripture the “SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD”. Have you ever considered that those seven spirits were what God used to create all his creation that has life with? Therefore that could be what he meant by “let us create man in our image” ?
Have you ever done a research on the word “GOD” in the original, Hebrew language. I will give you what my research has found. The “original” Language of the Hebrew text was a pictorial language much like the ancient Egyptian language was. The symbol for God was the head of a OX, with a Shepards Staff leaning into it, this is how the anchent Hebrews saw there God. THE OX represented the power they used to work with, the Shepherds Staff was what the leaned on , or trusted in for support, so put those together and you get in simple term , GOD WAS THE POWER THEY LEANED ON AND TRUSTED IN FOR THEIR SUPORT. Just that simple , SO the word GOD is a “ralitive” term it can apply to any thing a person puts their TRUST IN . That is why “OUR GOD” said you shall have no other GOD BESIDES ME. think about it.
Glad to see you here.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi LU,
I just realized I posted this on a different thread, so wanted to put it here too.
YOU:Christians all over the world see this passage as referring to the Son being born/begotten/brought forth. This happened before creation.
ME: To denote that portion of the chapter to the Son, is to IGNORE the first half of the passage and also that of Proverbs 3 along with other clear passages.
One does not have truth when they fully IGNORE scripture and don’t apply context, as well as other passages, but instead just see things how they want to see, such is the blind leading the blind.
FIRST ACKNOWLEDGE ISAIAH 11,
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
The Spirit of the LORD IS WISDOM, IS UNDERSTANDING, IS KNOWLEDGE. Jesus is a MAN upon whom those things were GIVEN unto him.
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. 13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. 14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. 20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion: 22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck. 23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.
Proverbs 8:1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? 2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. 3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. 4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice isto the sons of man. 5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart. 6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things. 7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
LU, don’t forget that this LORD said that He would raise up a prophet from among brethren and HE would put HIS words into the prophets mouth, and those who would not hear him speak the LORD’S words in the LORD’S name, would be destroyed. This prophet IS a Son of Man. Don’t forget that Jesus said he was TAUGHT by his Father. And of course don’t forget this Son of Man RECEIVED the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding and Knowledge from the LORD.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. 12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. 13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness. 19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
LU, don’t forget the son of Jesse was to be CALLED to righteousness where the LORD would direct all his ways, and the LORD would ordain this man to judge the quick and the dead, not by his own eyes and ears. Also don’t forget that you are told by Paul that we are JOINT HEIRS with Christ being promised to be HEIRS of the LORD, and the LORD told the prophet Ezekiel that He would put HIS SPIRIT upon us and cause us to follow in all His ways.
21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth.
RECALL and APPLY Proverbs 3,
19 The LORD BY WISDOM hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. 20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
The LORD brought forth His Wisdom and His understanding in order to make the fountains with water, the mountains and hills, the earth and fields, and the lights in heaven of the day and of the night.
LU….I belong to no religious organization, haven’t for over 40 years. I try not to let any past accociations of past organization influence me, I take every thing to scriptures that are written, and when the flow is not consistent with “all” scriptures both in the new and old, I do a search on it looking for the error in how it’s being presented, sometime it requires a major word search, to see where the conclusions they present are not consistent with our complete scriptures, then I can see where they are “forcing” the text. Trying to make the text say what in fact it does not “specifically ” say. most “religious” people, are caught up in “mystery” concepts, that are not in our texts and even concepts that go completely against what most of our scriptures say. I believe it the “sum” of knowledge that hold the real truth, no just little snippets here and there, that can be taken completely out of context.
No scripture say Jesus “is” “the wisdom off God ” from the stand point Jesus himself is wisdom, even though he has wisdom given him from GOD , “the spirit” of the wisdom of “GOD”, can be see in all of GOD’S CREATION. Wisdom is not any person at all, it’s SPIRIT and can be in everything that exists. Jesus certanly does demonstrate the wisdom “of’ GOD TO US, but that does not make him that wisdom “himself” as if he is what wisdom is himself.
LU, as far as “many” goes, Jesus said, “wide is the road that leads to destruction and many go in threat thereof “.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
“But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:24
“But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 1:30-31
Somewhere in the discussions a charge was made that Christians who hold to a triune God are Gnostics or hold the gnostic error. This is simply not true. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah (Anointed one), born of a woman, of the seed of Abraham and David, flesh and blood, born of the Holy Spirit and filled with the Spirit. Such believe that as by MAN came death (1 Cor 15:21-22; Rom 5:12-17) by MAN came also the resurrection of the dead (1 Cor 15:21-22; Rom 6:23). They also believe “For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;” (1 Timothy 2:5).
Gnostics believe that the story of creation found in the Bible was a lie and that God wasn’t actually the one responsible for the creation of our world, at least not directly. Gnostics believed that God didn’t set out to create the world. Instead, his divine essence went out from him to fill existence. They believed that God’s emanation created the first beings. They hold that the world is flawed because it was created in a flawed manner.
Gnostics do not look to salvation from sin (original or other), but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence. They believe it is not by Christ’s suffering and death but by His life of teaching and His establishing of mysteries that Christ has performed His work of salvation. Gnostics hold that the potential for Gnosis, and thus, of salvation is present in every man and woman, and that salvation is not vicarious but individual. Gnostics do not believe in the humanity of Christ but that Christ is an apparition Of a Spirit.
None Of these beliefs are adhered to be “triune” Christians. Quite the opposite.
Be careful therefore not to wrongly charge Christians who believe in Christ as the Son Of God and Son Of Man, as the manifestation of the preexistent WORD who has given light to everyone who has come into the world (past, present and future), who was made flesh, all of which is in adherence to scripture, with such error and heresy.
Hi Gene,
Thanks you and same to you!
You said it well, “people are caught up in mystery concepts that are not in our texts and even concepts that go completely against what most of our scriptures say. ”
Peace and love to you, Jodi
Hi Pilgrim and welcome!
You:Be careful therefore not to wrongly charge Christians who believe in Christ as the Son Of God and Son Of Man, as the manifestation of the preexistent WORD who has given light to everyone who has come into the world (past, present and future), who was made flesh, all of which is in adherence to scripture, with such error and heresy.
ME:
Pilgrim, would you say that it is true that the prophecy of Isaiah 61 was made true in the Son of Man Jesus?
Would such not equate to God’s word being made true in the flesh?
Please consider,
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel.
Jesus quotes Isaiah 61, which was a prophecy speaking of a Son of Man, the son of Jesse, receiving God’s Spirit not by measure, called AN ANOINTING, where he is specifically SENT to execute God’s council. We are given that one specific purpose of this anointed man’s sending was for him to pay the penalty for our sins.
Pilgrim, do you see how one should be able to conclude from direct scripture that as God spoke in the beginning of a man to come that would execute His council, that we are to see the man Jesus, as that word from the beginning as being made true in him?
Hi Jodi,
There is nothing in what you say that a “triune” Christian doesn’t believe. Of course Jesus was anointed as Isaiah 61 says (Matthew 3:16, Luke 4:18) and Jesus the MAN did all things through the indwelling Spirit including being led of the Spirit (Matthew 4:1), facing and defeating the Devil in temptations answering back as MAN (Matthew 4:4-11), casting out devils by the Spirit of God (Matt 22:28, dying as MAN (as previously posted, but not as God who can never die), and then as the Last Adam at Calvary was made sin who knew no sin to pay the price of our redemption and so we could be made the righteousness of God in Him (Colossians 2), then God raising Him from the dead by the Spirit of Holiness (that He was).
That Jesus was that man to come that would execute His council is agreed, according to God’s predetermined council and foreknowledge.
Where Christians have a disagreement with you is that that MAN was not just a purpose in the will of God but a person/being as it says in Ephesians 1 “hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world”. God by the Apostles through revelations has “made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him”.
That is that God is gathering all back to himself through the preexisting WORD (person not just purpose) who became that Anointed Man to achieve it. Hence He was conceived of the Spirit not a seed of Adamic man.
Jodi,
In a post you directed to Davo you said that Elohim is the “Powers (plural) of YHWH’s Spirit” that created and that this ONE Spirit consists of multiple powers.
Replacing that concept throughout chapter 1 of Genesis (let alone throughout the 2605 times in the the KJV Bible) I think shows the interpretation. It makes Powers/Spirit have personal capabilities I.e. It/they speak, they see, they are spoken of as I, us, our (personal pronouns), they say things like ‘I have given’, they talk to each other ‘let us make’, they say they are making man in their image (which would be contrary to your belief that ADAM (MAN) didn’t have the Holy Spirit, and the Powers claim that they “saw every thing that HE (the Powers) had made, and, behold, it was very good.” (Genesis 1:31).
You could do the same with John 1 replacing the WORD with YHWH’s purpose and again find a nonsensical outcome I.e. that “purpose” was God and the “purpose” has Eternal Life in it that has always light to everyone who comes into the world (well before the coming of the MAN Christ), and again that “purpose” has a personal pronoun attached to it which is reserved for persons/beings.
I would think that is pretty nonsensical. In addition it destroys one of the most beautiful aspects of Genesis 1 that draws us immediately to God himself as creator not some power and that you did so simply by speaking it all into existence.
GeneBalthrop refers to the Hebrew letters in the Hebrew alphabet and the picture associated with the Aleph letter in Genesis 1:1, that picture includes the head of an Ox (representing strength) & Shepherd crook (to be leaned on). This is only one letter used there and not the first letter used.
The 1st three <u>words</u> of Genesis 1:1 says “Bereshit bara Elohim” meaning “in the beginning God created”. Within the first two words “Bereshit Bara” we have the <u>letters</u> Bet (with it’s picture representing a house). The combination of Aleph and Bet together creates the <u>word</u> “ABBA” (Mark 14:36; Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6).
Then we also have within both “Bereshit and Bara” the letter Resh (with its picture representing head). The combination of Bet and Resh makes a <b><u>word</u></b> meaning “head of the house” . In Hebrews 3:6 we have these words “Christ as a son over his own house”.
Then in addition the very first three <u>letters</u> of “Bereshit” (the first word of the Bible) are Bet, Resh & Aleph which is repeated in “Bara” and that word means Son of God, Son Of God. Bet alone also means Son. Now the first letter of “Bereshit” is Bet not Aleph + Bet meaning ABBA. So again the very first picture in scripture is of the Son. So we could well see here a reference in the very first words of the bible to the Son and the Father.
Finally if Elohim is the “SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD” are you not making God a being of multiple persons especially if you are claiming these Spirits speak and See.
I would have to say your
It does appear to me that you have a very convoluted, contrived and contradictory belief system on these issues and is not as beautiful or as clear as that of a triune God, who wonderfully took on flesh and blood, became a servant, humbling himself to be a man and endured the cross as Man for fallen MAN to redeem them and give them everlasting life in his Son, the Son Of God. This seems to me to bring great praise, glory and honour to God and clearly something only He could do as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, which glory is to be found in the face/being of Jesus Christ and now available to repentant sinners.
Here is another passage always misused by Jodi:
isaiah 46
Verse 11
[11] Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.A bird — Cyrus, called a bird for his swiftness, and ravenous for his fierceness, and victoriousness over his enemies.
https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=wes&b=23&c=46
Many accusations from the accusers here about not dealing with their scriptures…hmmm. I think I read that we are treating scriptures like garbage…wow!
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