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Hi JA,
Will the Father declare you as His son too?
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.[Lk4.1]Hi JA,
We know we abide in Him and He abides in us because He has given us of His Spirit.[1Jn]
Because of the resurrection of Jesus we are reborn to a living hope[1Peter1]
God fulfilled His promises and proved that Jesus is His Son[Acts 2, 13]Nick,
I find your one liners quite hollow.
I have no idea what they are supposed to mean.
Do you any opinions or ambitions except to quote unlinked scripture verses.
Do you feel somehow righteous or pious because you can write out a random statement.
I could write a computer program to do that.Let me show you how…oh, you already know…!
Nick, seriously, sorry brother. I just don't get you.
Hi JA,
If you read Rom6 you will see we follow Jesus into rebirth of water and the Spirit.
That happened for him at the JordanNick, at the river jordan jesus was when he was anointed.
He was declared to be the Son of God. That is not then same as being begotten.
I think you are mixing up two different things. Perhaps that's why I canlt understand what you on about.
The verses in scriptures all allude to his 'spiritual rebirth from the dead'…hebrews 11:19, in the manner of Isaac who was figuratively reborn. The begotten is the same as the spiritual rebirth.
Nick, not requuring proof but…can you just show me in more than oneliner style how you arrive at your conclusion. I'm just interested…
Quote (JustAskin @ June 14 2010,08:42)
Can one prove God, Mike? Ok, let me answer. No!
Hi JustAskin,That's what Stuart keeps saying; yet he refuses to examine the proof that I have documented.
Please explain to us all here at [heaven.net.nz] how Jer.31:34 is possible in light of Mt.12:39?
Mathew 12:39 But [Jesus] answered and said unto them, an evil and adulterous generation
seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah:
Jer. 31:34: And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother,
saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest
of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.The answer is really quite simple and is found in 1Cor. 1:22 and Rev. 21:2-3.
1Cor.1:22-3 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews(Believers) a stumblingblock
(Stumblingblock Here), and unto the Greeks(non-believers) foolishness;Rev.21:2-3 Is a “Spiritual City”; it's representation can ONLY be understood with “Spiritual Eyes”(John 3:3)!
Rev.21:1-3 And I saw [a ReNewed heaven] and [a ReNewed earth]: for the first heaven and the first earth
were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2) And I John saw the “HolyCity”=117, new Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of
God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
“and God himself”=117 [will be=63] with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
[אלהים=86] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=631Peter 2:8 [Jesus=74] “a stone”=74 of “stumbling“=117, and a rock of offense, even to them
which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], and
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!My Avatar is the closest the “physical eyes” gets to see!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2010,09:30) Hi JA,
We know we abide in Him and He abides in us because He has given us of His Spirit.[1Jn]
Because of the resurrection of Jesus we are reborn to a living hope[1Peter1]
God fulfilled His promises and proved that Jesus is His Son[Acts 2, 13]
Hi Nick,It takes “Spiritual Eyes” to understand it; Good Job!
Phil.1:9: And this I pray, that your love may abound
yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 14 2010,08:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2010,07:28) Hi JA, Roo's the one who yells the same crap so many times that he thinks eventually you will agree or give up,
and WJ is the one who tries to kill you with a post so long that it takes hours to respond to.peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,You explained the Roo/WJ duo pretty Good!
I've told (the essence of) that to WJ as well.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,I'm sure they've got their own private jokes about all of us, too!
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2010,05:33) Hello Mr. Gene 
You said:
Quote Mike…………First lets start with you question of How John knew Jesus was the lamb of GOD. It had nothing to do with Jesus' preexistences at all. Point is Mike John recognized Who Jesus was (because ) of what God had told him and had nothing to do with any prior existence of His. There is even other scripture where John even doubted If Jesus was indeed the Christ, i can produce that for you also if you would like Brother.
First, what do you believe? Do you believe that Jesus was a son of God like the rest of us before he was baptized? Or do you think even from his birth by Mary he was special? Spell it out for me.
I think Jesus as the Word was the only begotten Son of God from before time. He might not have had the name Jesus then, but the Word was a “job title”, not his name. So he very well could have been known as Jesus even then. Who knows?
As far as prior existence, don't you think Jesus was the Son of Man?
And I WOULD like to see the “doubting John” scripture. Thanks.
peace and love,
mike
Mike………..You ask Do i believe Jesus (was) a son of GOD like the rest of us before he was baptized? No, I do not believe Jesus was a Son of GOD Before His Baptism at the Jordan river by John. Where He recieved he Holy Spirit (INTO) Him. At that point he was Begotten as a SON of GOD. The Word of GOD said (THIS-DAY) I have begotten you. Not some time in the distant past but (THIS DAY). You also reference the text where it say I (will) (future tense) Be a father to Him and He (will) (future tense) be a son to me. Trying to make it be in some Past preexistent time does not meet the wording, Mike IMO.I do believe the (baby) who became Known as Jesus was indeed special as concerning the work of GOD. Special as different from us (NO) i do not think Jesus was one ounce (different) then we are, Just blessed above us and placed by the Father over US. But he is still one of US no difference between us and him.
Mike Jesus was no the (ONLY) Begotten son of GOD He was the UNIQUELY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. Adam himself is called a son of GOD also. Jesus was the only begotten from among mankind at that time and even now, so in that sense we could apply this unique status to him But only in that sense. IMO
AS far a Jesus being call the spokesmen for GOD i never had a problem with that , but making Him the WORDS He Spoke and applying those words to his person, i have great trouble with, because Jesus plainly said the words he was speaking were (NOT) His Words. “FOR GOD SPOKE TO US IN TIMES PAST THROUGH THE PROPHETS HAS IN THESE LATTER DAYS SPOKEN TO US THROUGH A SON. What the difference between the Prophets and Jesus only this, Jesus Had the HOLY SPIRIT (IN) Him, the Prophets Had it (ON) them . GOD guided them externally but His sons He guides Internally. “Now if the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead be (IN) you it shall (ALSO) quicken or bring to life your (MORTAL BODIES).” Bodies are important to have to experience LIFE. IMO
And yes i do think Jesus was a son of Man in every sense of the word. Just as we are also, and He became a son of God by way of adoption just as we must also, when we recieve the FATHERS Spirit into Us , we are then (IMPREGNATED WITH HOLY SEED) Of our Heavenly Father. Just as Jesus was also. IMO
The doubting Scripture is when John sent his disciples to Jesus to enquire of Him if he was indeed the Messiah and He informed them of His work he was doing.
Matt 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his deciples,….3..> And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another”< Jesus replied and said GO and Show John (again) those thing which you do hear and see. Then he ends it with " And the he ends it with "And blessed is he whosoever shall not be offended in me".
That is the doubting scripture of John i was referring to Mike.
peace an dlove to you and yours………………gene
Gene When it says that The Word of God, it means nothing to you? There are two Scriptures that tell us that Jesus was the Word before the world was and will be when He comes again…. John 1:14 tells us that He was the Word that became flesh…. and in
Rev. 19:13 “He was clothed in a robe dipped in Blood and His name is The Word of God.”
verse 16 “And on His robe and on His thigh a name is written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.”
NOW WE SHOULD ALL KNOW WHO THAT IS, DO YOU?
Peace and Love IreneHi JA,
You said:
Quote Was it God who gave His only begotten Son? Or was it Paul who said that 'after' the fact that Jesus was begotten? Where does God call His Son 'Begotten' before he was raised from the dead?
It was John directly quoting Jesus who said to Nicodemus,
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Do you see? It was Jesus still in the flesh that said this. God gave him to us from heaven, for Jesus also tells Nicodemus,
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
And Paul says in Romans 8,
32 He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?
What does Paul mean by “his own Son”? Aren't we all “his own sons”? But Jesus is his only begotten Son. And if Jesus was begotten BY being raised, then it couldn't be said that God gave his only begotten Son for us. It would be more like God gave one of his many sons, and later that son was given the title of God's only begotten Son.
I hope you are taking this in, JA. That is why that one question is so important for you to be able to understand this. God couldn't have GAVE his only begotten Son if he hadn't yet been “begotten”. God didn't GIVE him AFTER he was raised. And just as he WAS the Son of Man while on earth, he WAS God's only begotten Son.
You said:
Quote For one who has hedged his bets in claiming that he would accept being found to be wrong you sure are making your request for proof a heavy weather one. Why do you bring this up almost every post and at the same time refuse to refute the very scriptures that cause me to believe the way I do? If you want me to admit I'm wrong, then show me that I am.
You said:
Quote It is undoubted that Jesus was 'begotten' in the sense of coming into being, at some point 'before time' but Scriptures does not state this, nor how many others were likewise brought into being in like manner. The fact that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God is what distiguishes him from all the other sons of God. Do you still fail to grasp that everything came into existence through Jesus? That includes these other sons of God. Do you get that? Jesus helped to create these other sons of God who you seem to think he is in the same position with. God begat Jesus directly, and then everything else came into being through him. And if it is clear to you that Jesus was begotten at some time, why is this so hard for you?
You said:
Quote I already agree that if this is the case then 'Satan' was that 'firstborn' who sinned and 'Jesus' was declared 'firstborn' by Spiritual bringing up in rank. Now you're freaking me out, man. Again, JESUS HELPED TO CREATE SATAN – HOW COULD SATAN BE GOD'S FIRSTBORN?
You said:
Quote If this is the answer you seek, then how many times have a I said it…if not then please accept my 'noneAnswer' as my final answer. I don't accept it. I thought you wanted a serious search into the truth, but you didn't even care enough to look into John 3:16 – you thought it was something Paul said, which is a little wierd since it is in the gospel of John. It is the words of Jesus, my friend. He said while he was on earth,
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ June 14 2010,10:58) Nick, at the river jordan jesus was when he was anointed. He was declared to be the Son of God. That is not then same as being begotten.
I think you are mixing up two different things. Perhaps that's why I canlt understand what you on about.
The verses in scriptures all allude to his 'spiritual rebirth from the dead'…hebrews 11:19, in the manner of Isaac who was figuratively reborn. The begotten is the same as the spiritual rebirth.
Nick, not requuring proof but…can you just show me in more than oneliner style how you arrive at your conclusion. I'm just interested…
Hi JA,
“You are My Son. Today I have begotten you”These two statements are not independant of each other.
Hi JA,
You have some wierd ideas about Satan but seemingly they are independant of scriptural teaching.Hi Gene,
Thanks for the thorough answers to my questions. Some here could learn from you.
You left out a reply to the Son of Man question. Was Jesus the Son of Man?
And thanks for refreshing my memory about doubting John. That sure seems out of place compared with how sure he was when he baptized Jesus. I'm going to read it closer, because I know scripture doesn't contradict itself.
After I find out what you believe about the Son of Man, we can discuss the “today” verses “will be” a litte more.
peace and love,
mikeYes there is an interesting argument to be had here. If it says that God sent his son, does it mean that he was the son and then was sent, or that he was sent and then become the son.
e.g., it also says that God made all things through Christ. But when that happened he wasn't the Christ at that point was he?Or is it that we are subjecting our limitation of time to the eternal realm?
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2010,12:51) Yes there is an interesting argument to be had here. If it says that God sent his son, does it mean that he was the son and then was sent, or that he was sent and then become the son.
e.g., it also says that God made all things through Christ. But when that happened he wasn't the Christ at that point was he?Or is it that we are subjecting our limitation of time to the eternal realm?
Hi t8,I agree the sent part could go either way…..maybe.
But what about the “gave” part? How could God have “gave” someone who wasn't yet that person? And if he didn't become that person until he was raised, how is it that God then “gave” him?
Is this what they call a paradox?
peace and love,
mikeHi.
Theres 2 borns…firstborn of creation and firstborn of the dead,
Colossians 1(Youngs literal translation)
the Son of His love, in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins, who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation, because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted. And himself is the head of the body — the assembly — who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things — himself — first, because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, and through him to reconcile the all things to himself — having made peace through the blood of his cross — through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.
St Irenaeus “the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through his transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”
St Anthanasios of Alexandria “God became man so that we might become god.”
THE EPISTLE OF MATHETES TO DIOGNETUS [A.D. 130
CHAPTER 7 THE MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST
God Himself, who is almighty, the Creator of all things, and invisible, has sent from heaven, and placed among men, Him who is the truth, and the holy and incomprehensible Word, the very Creator and Fashioner of all things — by whom He made the heavens — by whom he enclosed the sea within its proper bounds — whose ordinances all the stars faithfully observe — from whom the sun has received the measure of his daily course to be observed — whom the moon obeys, being commanded to shine in the night, and whom the stars also obey, following the moon in her course; by whom all things have been arranged, and placed within their proper limits, and to whom all are subject. As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so sent He Him; as God He sent Him; as to men He sent Him; as a Savior He sent Him, and as seeking to persuade, not to compel us; for violence has no place in the character of God.
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