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Quote (Stu @ Jan. 05 2010,20:17) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 05 2010,20:02) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 05 2010,19:13) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 05 2010,18:53) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 05 2010,17:20) Quote the early Muslims were on their way to the hills of Mecca to hold a meeting with Muhammad, when a group of polytheists observed their gathering and began to abuse and fight them. And what was the polytheists' motive for the attack?
Stuart
The text just says that they began to abuse and fight the Muslims. The Muslims were certainly not attacking their “persons”
What was their MOTIVE? I am not condoning any violence here, but for your argument to have any validity you will have to be very clear about exactly what mohammad's friends did and didn't do in provocation.Stuart
Sorry, I wasn't at the event but you are justifying violence
I was just trying to establish motive, actually it was YOU who was justifying the violence of self-defense!Stuart
shouldn't self-defense be justified?Quote (Stu @ Jan. 06 2010,06:40) Did I say it shouldn't? Stuart
Let me ask you, do you reject “gods” or God?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,09:43) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 06 2010,06:40) Did I say it shouldn't? Stuart
Let me ask you, do you reject “gods” or God?
Tell me what a god is and I will tell you if I think it extremely unlikely to exist.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2010,16:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,09:43) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 06 2010,06:40) Did I say it shouldn't? Stuart
Let me ask you, do you reject “gods” or God?
Tell me what a god is and I will tell you if I think it extremely unlikely to exist.Stuart
What do you mean unlikely?Do you believe that things you can't see exist?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,19:25) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2010,16:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,09:43) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 06 2010,06:40) Did I say it shouldn't? Stuart
Let me ask you, do you reject “gods” or God?
Tell me what a god is and I will tell you if I think it extremely unlikely to exist.Stuart
What do you mean unlikely?Do you believe that things you can't see exist?
Every religionist's god is different. You will have to tell me what your god is before I can assess whether it is likely or unlikely to exist.If your god is like Einstein's, a metaphor for nature, a Spinoza's god of gentle mockery, then I would say it almost certainly existed as a concept in the brains of both Einstein and Spinoza, and as such did exist.
If you are telling me that it is a being that interacts with matter and does magic to bring about life then I assess that as having a vanishingly small probability of existing, to the point where it would be completely reasonable to carry on as if there were no such thing, in the same way you carry on as if there is no god called Odin.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2010,21:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,19:25) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2010,16:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,09:43) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 06 2010,06:40) Did I say it shouldn't? Stuart
Let me ask you, do you reject “gods” or God?
Tell me what a god is and I will tell you if I think it extremely unlikely to exist.Stuart
What do you mean unlikely?Do you believe that things you can't see exist?
Every religionist's god is different. You will have to tell me what your god is before I can assess whether it is likely or unlikely to exist.If your god is like Einstein's, a metaphor for nature, a Spinoza's god of gentle mockery, then I would say it almost certainly existed as a concept in the brains of both Einstein and Spinoza, and as such did exist.
If you are telling me that it is a being that interacts with matter and does magic to bring about life then I assess that as having a vanishingly small probability of existing, to the point where it would be completely reasonable to carry on as if there were no such thing, in the same way you carry on as if there is no god called Odin.
Stuart
So you believe that there can be no unseen conscious entities?Why do quantum particles behave differently upon observation?
The funny thing is I am invisible to you and yet I interact consciously with you.
Quote So you believe that there can be no unseen conscious entities?
What are ‘unseen conscious entities’?Quote Why do quantum particles behave differently upon observation?
Um, because the interaction between the light you use to do the observation and the particle changes the behaviour of the particle? Because the particle exists within a probability distribution and you looking at one part of that distribution allows you to only see the characteristic of the particle that apply to it when it is in the location you are looking? I don’t know, I’m really guessing. Can you explain why?Quote The funny thing is I am invisible to you and yet I interact consciously with you.
You are only invisible to me in the literal sense of using the sense of seeing. In the wider sense of ‘visible’, the one that many scientists would commonly use, you are as visible to me as someone is to a blind person when standing next to him: there is so much evidence from the other senses for the reality of the existence of that person that it would be perverse to deny it. I conclude that it is a fact that you exist. Any scientist or philosopher who knew his stuff would describe this as a reasonable provisional conclusion, the fact based on the best interpretation of the overwhelming evidence, that indeed you exist.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,13:28) Quote So you believe that there can be no unseen conscious entities?
What are ‘unseen conscious entities’?Quote Why do quantum particles behave differently upon observation?
Um, because the interaction between the light you use to do the observation and the particle changes the behaviour of the particle? Because the particle exists within a probability distribution and you looking at one part of that distribution allows you to only see the characteristic of the particle that apply to it when it is in the location you are looking? I don’t know, I’m really guessing. Can you explain why?Quote The funny thing is I am invisible to you and yet I interact consciously with you.
You are only invisible to me in the literal sense of using the sense of seeing. In the wider sense of ‘visible’, the one that many scientists would commonly use, you are as visible to me as someone is to a blind person when standing next to him: there is so much evidence from the other senses for the reality of the existence of that person that it would be perverse to deny it. I conclude that it is a fact that you exist. Any scientist or philosopher who knew his stuff would describe this as a reasonable provisional conclusion, the fact based on the best interpretation of the overwhelming evidence, that indeed you exist.Stuart
What evidence do you have that I exist?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,13:39) What evidence do you have that I exist?
There is something calling itself bodhitharta that is forming words in a language common to mine. That is what I know to exist. There is also the trivial evidence of things such as the fact that I am familiar with it being only humans who can generate responses in the way “bodhitharta” is doing. I can conceive of other explanations for why I see comprehensible typing on the screen in response to mine, but the greatest probability must be that it is a person doing the typing.I conclude therefore, that while there is a tiny chance I am being deceived, the overwhelming case leads to the provisional conclusion that I am interacting with a human being.
I detect further evidence that the person is indeed a convert to islam, as there are aspects of his style of debate that can be seen in the tactics employed by other islamists, such as ignoring good points made in opposition, and passing off pure assertion as rational argument.
Stuart
Looks like I should be cautious about using the word for your Imaginary Friend:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world….ombings
The religion of peace.
Stuart
I would like to touch base with the thread topic again, For atheism/ for god. What is in question here is what qualities some Abrahamists attribute to their god, and whether they match your god concept.
Let’s put words in your mouth which you have never said yourself. Let’s pretend you actually said that in your opinion it is ETHICALLY WRONG (not just ‘against islamic teaching’) to take the life of ANYONE, except if it is absolutely the only option remaining in a situation where a life is being threatened.
Since you have stated that the is only one god, it must be the SAME god that the suicide bomber refers to as she shouts god is great before blowing herself up along with innocent muslims and non-innocent non-muslims.
Now, is this a god of justice? Has there ever been an unambiguous case of your god stepping in, and stopping this unjust mayhem which is not rightly done in its name?
What then is your response to Epicurus:?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,13:39) What evidence do you have that I exist?
There is something calling itself bodhitharta that is forming words in a language common to mine. That is what I know to exist. There is also the trivial evidence of things such as the fact that I am familiar with it being only humans who can generate responses in the way “bodhitharta” is doing. I can conceive of other explanations for why I see comprehensible typing on the screen in response to mine, but the greatest probability must be that it is a person doing the typing.I conclude therefore, that while there is a tiny chance I am being deceived, the overwhelming case leads to the provisional conclusion that I am interacting with a human being.
I detect further evidence that the person is indeed a convert to islam, as there are aspects of his style of debate that can be seen in the tactics employed by other islamists, such as ignoring good points made in opposition, and passing off pure assertion as rational argument.
Stuart
Sorry, there is no evidence that I exist, who am I?Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:38) I would like to touch base with the thread topic again, For atheism/ for god. What is in question here is what qualities some Abrahamists attribute to their god, and whether they match your god concept. Let’s put words in your mouth which you have never said yourself. Let’s pretend you actually said that in your opinion it is ETHICALLY WRONG (not just ‘against islamic teaching’) to take the life of ANYONE, except if it is absolutely the only option remaining in a situation where a life is being threatened.
Since you have stated that the is only one god, it must be the SAME god that the suicide bomber refers to as she shouts god is great before blowing herself up along with innocent muslims and non-innocent non-muslims.
Now, is this a god of justice? Has there ever been an unambiguous case of your god stepping in, and stopping this unjust mayhem which is not rightly done in its name?
What then is your response to Epicurus:?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus
Stuart
Why would letting someone die be malevolent?We were made to die, it is just your fear of death that finds it repulsive.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,16:01) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:38) I would like to touch base with the thread topic again, For atheism/ for god. What is in question here is what qualities some Abrahamists attribute to their god, and whether they match your god concept. Let’s put words in your mouth which you have never said yourself. Let’s pretend you actually said that in your opinion it is ETHICALLY WRONG (not just ‘against islamic teaching’) to take the life of ANYONE, except if it is absolutely the only option remaining in a situation where a life is being threatened.
Since you have stated that the is only one god, it must be the SAME god that the suicide bomber refers to as she shouts god is great before blowing herself up along with innocent muslims and non-innocent non-muslims.
Now, is this a god of justice? Has there ever been an unambiguous case of your god stepping in, and stopping this unjust mayhem which is not rightly done in its name?
What then is your response to Epicurus:?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus
Stuart
Why would letting someone die be malevolent?We were made to die, it is just your fear of death that finds it repulsive.
How about you read my post again, then reconsider whether you actually addressed the question or not.Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:58) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,13:39) What evidence do you have that I exist?
There is something calling itself bodhitharta that is forming words in a language common to mine. That is what I know to exist. There is also the trivial evidence of things such as the fact that I am familiar with it being only humans who can generate responses in the way “bodhitharta” is doing. I can conceive of other explanations for why I see comprehensible typing on the screen in response to mine, but the greatest probability must be that it is a person doing the typing.I conclude therefore, that while there is a tiny chance I am being deceived, the overwhelming case leads to the provisional conclusion that I am interacting with a human being.
I detect further evidence that the person is indeed a convert to islam, as there are aspects of his style of debate that can be seen in the tactics employed by other islamists, such as ignoring good points made in opposition, and passing off pure assertion as rational argument.
Stuart
Sorry, there is no evidence that I exist, who am I?
How about you read my post and reconsider whether you paid any attention to the two pieces of evidence I gave you. Then get back to me when you have overcome your own laziness.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,16:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:58) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,13:39) What evidence do you have that I exist?
There is something calling itself bodhitharta that is forming words in a language common to mine. That is what I know to exist. There is also the trivial evidence of things such as the fact that I am familiar with it being only humans who can generate responses in the way “bodhitharta” is doing. I can conceive of other explanations for why I see comprehensible typing on the screen in response to mine, but the greatest probability must be that it is a person doing the typing.I conclude therefore, that while there is a tiny chance I am being deceived, the overwhelming case leads to the provisional conclusion that I am interacting with a human being.
I detect further evidence that the person is indeed a convert to islam, as there are aspects of his style of debate that can be seen in the tactics employed by other islamists, such as ignoring good points made in opposition, and passing off pure assertion as rational argument.
Stuart
Sorry, there is no evidence that I exist, who am I?
How about you read my post and reconsider whether you paid any attention to the two pieces of evidence I gave you. Then get back to me when you have overcome your own laziness.Stuart
You have no evidence, I could be T8Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,16:33) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,16:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:58) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,13:39) What evidence do you have that I exist?
There is something calling itself bodhitharta that is forming words in a language common to mine. That is what I know to exist. There is also the trivial evidence of things such as the fact that I am familiar with it being only humans who can generate responses in the way “bodhitharta” is doing. I can conceive of other explanations for why I see comprehensible typing on the screen in response to mine, but the greatest probability must be that it is a person doing the typing.I conclude therefore, that while there is a tiny chance I am being deceived, the overwhelming case leads to the provisional conclusion that I am interacting with a human being.
I detect further evidence that the person is indeed a convert to islam, as there are aspects of his style of debate that can be seen in the tactics employed by other islamists, such as ignoring good points made in opposition, and passing off pure assertion as rational argument.
Stuart
Sorry, there is no evidence that I exist, who am I?
How about you read my post and reconsider whether you paid any attention to the two pieces of evidence I gave you. Then get back to me when you have overcome your own laziness.Stuart
You have no evidence, I could be T8
I gave you the evidence that suggested to me that you were muslim!Although, you shifting the goalposts by changing the question from one about existence to one about identity is quite a christian thing to do, also.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,19:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,16:33) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,16:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:58) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,13:39) What evidence do you have that I exist?
There is something calling itself bodhitharta that is forming words in a language common to mine. That is what I know to exist. There is also the trivial evidence of things such as the fact that I am familiar with it being only humans who can generate responses in the way “bodhitharta” is doing. I can conceive of other explanations for why I see comprehensible typing on the screen in response to mine, but the greatest probability must be that it is a person doing the typing.I conclude therefore, that while there is a tiny chance I am being deceived, the overwhelming case leads to the provisional conclusion that I am interacting with a human being.
I detect further evidence that the person is indeed a convert to islam, as there are aspects of his style of debate that can be seen in the tactics employed by other islamists, such as ignoring good points made in opposition, and passing off pure assertion as rational argument.
Stuart
Sorry, there is no evidence that I exist, who am I?
How about you read my post and reconsider whether you paid any attention to the two pieces of evidence I gave you. Then get back to me when you have overcome your own laziness.Stuart
You have no evidence, I could be T8
I gave you the evidence that suggested to me that you were muslim!Although, you shifting the goalposts by changing the question from one about existence to one about identity is quite a christian thing to do, also.
Stuart
How can you rely on that evidence?How can you possibly prove I exist or my identity?
What if T8 is playing the role of several different identities to keep the site interesting? In-fact what if T8 is also one of the made up identities?
What if BD and Kejonn are the same people and ED and Karmarie are the same people?
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