BLOOD

[david]

ok, here's the actual thread.

[Sevena]

I believe that we should listen to Acts 21:25 in any translation it says to “abstain from BLOOD….”

[acertainchap]

I might as well ask if there are any verses talking about self-defense. Is using self-defense scriptural or must we as Christians always be pacifist. I'd be greatly interested in anybody's thoughts on this.

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Sevena @ Jan. 26 2008,17:59)

I believe that we should listen to Acts 21:25 in any translation it says to “abstain from BLOOD….”

So you would let a child die if He or She needed a Blood transfusion?

Peace and Love Mrs.

[acertainchap]

I might as well ask if there are any verses talking about self-defense. Is using self-defense scriptural or must we as Christians always be pacifist. I'd be greatly interested in anybody's thoughts on this.

[seek and you will find]

Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 27 2008,14:56)

I might as well ask if there are any verses talking about self-defense. Is using self-defense scriptural or must we as Christians always be pacifist. I'd be greatly interested in anybody's thoughts on this.

Chap That is a good Question , but I tell you if somebody would try to hurt my children and if I am capable to defend them and me I would.

[acertainchap]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 27 2008,15:02)

Chap That is a good Question , but I tell you if somebody would try to hurt my children and if I am capable to defend them and me I would.

And well you should because you have every right to.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.

[acertainchap]

bump

[Proclaimer]

So I take it that the OT outlaws vampires.

[acertainchap]

I know that hacking computers is illegal that's for sure and it means jailtime. Cool now?

[TimothyVI]

HI Chap,
the original purpose of not having editing rights was so that people would not
change posts after other replies, thus making it difficult to follow along with a discussion.
Since you edit virtually every post that you make it is difficult for me to follow what you are thinking.
I am not certain but I suspect that may be abuse of editing privileges.

Tim

[acertainchap]

That's ok because I don't want my editing privileges anyways.

[seekingtruth]

Blood is the symbol of life and death, it was spilled on the altar as the substituted death for sins, this fore-shadowed the blood that would take away our sins. To take this symbol and treat it as common by consuming it as food shows a total disregard for things of God. With that said, to accept a transfusion in order to save a life, is right in line with what God has ordained for the meaning for the symbol.

Wm

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The life is in the blood.
Life was in Christ and that life is of the Spirit of life.
We must drink of the blood of Jesus seeking of the Spirit that gave him life.

[dirtyknections]

JW's and their ever changing doctrine..

I know this old…but i will chime in..

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/blood.html

Here is the Watchtower’s history on the issue of blood

1940 Blood transfusions are acceptable
1945 Blood transfusion are not acceptable
1956 Blood serums should be treated as blood and are banned
1958 Blood serums and fractions acceptable
1959 Storage of own blood unacceptable
1961 Blood fractions are not acceptable
1964 Blood fractions are acceptable
1974 Blood serums are personal choice
1975 Hemophilia treatments (Factor VII & IX) are not acceptable
1978 Hemophilia treatments (Factor VII & IX) are acceptable
1982 Albumin is acceptable
1983 Hemodilution is acceptable
1990 Hemodilution is not acceptable (Blood Brochure)
1995 Hemodilution is acceptable

So after all this what is acceptable and what is not?

Acceptable

Albumin
Immunonoglobulins
Hemophilia preparations (Factor VII & IX)
Hemodialysis

Not acceptable

Whole blood
Plasma
White blood cell (Leukocytes)
Red blood cells
Platelets
Storage of blood outside of the body

Ok..now I will continue

I noticed David used that classic JW comeback… “If the doctor tells you to abstain from alcohol..would it then be ok to inject it in your veins”

Sounds good on the surface..but medically that is not an accurate comparison…because there is a huge difference.
Alcohol when injected into the veins is then absorbed into the body thru the bloodstream..therefore it is comparable to intaking alcohol thru the mouth.

BLOOD….when injected into the veins (i.e. blood transfusion) is not absorbed (eaten) by the body…it simply ADDS to the existing volume of blood….think of it like taking a half full glass of water and pouring more water in so that now its full.

Lets take it even further…when someone is in need of a blood transfusion its because the body does not have enough red blood cells to carry the oxygen that the body needs…therefore the body begins to shut down because the organs are not getting the oxygen they need to function..

Solution: give the body more blood cells (i.e. blood transfusion)

Lets go even further…medically..BLOOD is not even considered a liquid (as we think of liquid)…it is considered a..CONNECTIVE TISSUE (think tendons)…

Therefore..medically it is considered in the same vein as an organ transplant…just..liquid…well here is the question…

DO JW's ACCEPT ORGAN TRANSPLANTS?

The answer: YES..they do

Now the question becomes..if a blood transfusion is not “eating” blood….and is the same thing as an organ transplant..
why do JW's continue to let thousands of their members die because of a jaded, un-biblical, ever changing POLICY?

Oh and to answer your natural comeback about Acts 15:29's use of the word “abstain”…the reason Luke used those words is because he was simply REPEATING the basic laws laid out in the OT…it was no need to restate the specifics of the OT because..THEY KNEW IT ALREADY..he gave a summation…not a BLANKET PROHIBITION…

[NickHassan]

Hi DK,
Why does anyone obey JW leadership?
Was it appointed of God?

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 26 2008,07:55)

Hi DK, Why does anyone obey JW leadership? Was it appointed of God?

Thats a good question Nick…personally..I think the religion is a cult…that explains some of the behavoir…check out this book called..”combatting mind control”…it has excellent info on why people join and stay in groups like the JW's, Moonie, etc

The Watchtower society is just another daughter of the whore..plain and simple..

Oh..i would like to add blood that is ingested by mouth is absorbed into the blood stream (eaten)..blood that is injected is not…

[david]

“A Sheep among wolves. Are you trying to convince your W.J. Brethren what your beliefs are and convert them, or why are you in that Church? I just can't See that you can fellowship with people that have a different understand of the Bible then what you have. How do you do that? Do you argue with them? Or do you not say anything to them? I am really interested in what you do.
Peace and Love Mrs.”–Quick Intro Thread.

I guess she got it right.  And I guess I was right in saying you wouldn't be a JW for very long.  You kept saying everything was fine, but I kept saying it couldn't last, based on what you were describing.  You kept saying you don't make a point to speak against JW's, when that is primarily what you do.  Now that we all know who you are, the conversation is more honest.
I just didn't want the people on here to think that someone named “dirtyknections” would in any way be involved with JW's.
Now, they know the truth. You are not. Good.

Quote

Therefore..medically it is considered in the same vein as an organ transplant…just..liquid…well here is the question… DO JW's ACCEPT ORGAN TRANSPLANTS? The answer: YES..they do

If we did accept organ transplants, how would this apply?  Which scripture says to “abstain from kidneys” or to “abstain from heart transplants”?  It just says to “abstain from blood.”

Any ideas why?  Why is it that despite me repeatedly bringing this up, people tend to shy away from answering why we are to “abstain from blood.”?

What are the principles behind this command?  If we knew why God commanded this, would it not help us to consider how we should treat blood?  Or does any of this even matter?  Does the reason behind why God gave this command and why it was repeated matter to anyone?  

It's true that this is not a black and white subject and that it is one that often involves conscience.  Over time, blood has been broken down into more and more fractions.  

Quote

Now the question becomes..if a blood transfusion is not “eating” blood….and is the same thing as an organ transplant.. why do JW's continue to let thousands of their members die because of a jaded, un-biblical, ever changing POLICY?

I can see how many whose present lives are far more valuable to them then serving God forever would see it this way.

I wonder if those same people consider this verse wrong:
MATTHEW 16:24-25
“Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me. For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.”
The idea of losing your life for the sake of your faith….is that crazy?  Is it more important to “save [your] soul, or life, now?  What does the scripture say?  
Is the thinking of Jesus' words wrong?  Are there any today who would still hold to these words?

Contrary to how some today reason, God’s law on blood was not to be ignored just because an emergency arose. During a wartime crisis, some Israelite soldiers killed animals and “fell to eating along
with the blood.”
Oh, but it must have been ok, because of the special situation.  In view of the emergency, was it permissible for them to sustain their lives with blood? No. Their commander pointed out that their course was still a grave wrong. (1 Samuel 14:31-35) Hence, precious as life is, our Life-Giver never said that his standards could be ignored in an emergency.

Why did God command this abstaining from blood?  How important is it to him?

[david]

Blood holds a very interesting position in scripture. In Leviticus, we see that anyone eating it was to be “cut off.” Kind of severe.

In addition to these references to blood, we have the use for blood, of sacrifice. That was to be it's use. Not for food, not for anything else. Jehovah, as the source of life, reserved the right to hold blood as sacred, and designated it for one use.

Looking forward to Jesus, we have his shed blood, which saves lives.

When a Christian follows the command to abstains from blood, he is in effect expressing his faith that only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can truly redeem him and save his life.

A person can say: “All those scriptures are about “eating blood.” But even if they were, what does that tell us about Jehovah views blood? The WHY behind this command is what we should consider.

And yes, eating is different than having something injected into your bloodstream. But in the hospital, when a patient cannot eat through his mouth, he is fed intravenously. Now, would a person who never put blood into his mouth but who accepted blood by transfusion really be obeying the command to “keep abstaining from . . . blood”? (Acts 15:29)

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi David

You say…

Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2008,16:38)

If we did accept organ transplants, how would this apply?  Which scripture says to “abstain from kidneys” or to “abstain from heart transplants”?  It just says to “abstain from blood.”

Then you say…

Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2008,16:55)

And yes, eating is different than having something injected into your bloodstream. But in the hospital, when a patient cannot eat through his mouth, he is fed intravenously. Now, would a person who never put blood into his mouth but who accepted blood by transfusion really be obeying the command to “keep abstaining from . . . blood”? (Acts 15:29)

Can you tell me how someone can have a transplant of an organ that contains no blood?

I agree with DK. Just another one of those inconsistency’s of Watchtower and another good reason for DK to leave the pack of wolves.

WJ

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