Bizzaro World Doctrines

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2011,20:35)

Quote (terraricca @ June 30 2011,22:52)

Mike

6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this

this is the LXX version of Isa;9;6-7

Pierre

Yeah Pierre,

I've mentioned that to Keith before. I'll have to do some research some day to find out how the LXX is so different than the MT on that scripture.

July 3, 2011 at 5:40 pm#250796

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2011,19:32)

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2011,10:58)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2011,08:03)

Hi WJ,

Here is John's record of Jesus' account on equality…
My Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
How do you account for this non-equality?

Looking forward to your answer regarding this … in Bizzaro World Doctrines, for the record !

HI WJ,

Still waiting for your answer… … … … …

Your brother in
Christ, Jesus.
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed j………Right on but, WJ simply will dance around that and say something like, O that was when he was on earth, it is not that way now or some other nonsense.

peace and love………………………..gene

Yep. But then he'll turn right around and say Jesus WAS fully God on earth, and that John recognized this fact.

Which is it Keith? WAS Jesus fully “God with us”, or was he “lessor than God” because of his humanity?

July 4, 2011 at 3:42 pm#250898

Participant

Mike……….I would not put down WJ to much if i were you , Your false teaching of a Preexistent Jesus as a “MORPHED ANGEL” is no less senseless as His is that Jesus was a “MORPHED GOD” OF SOME KIND, both of your are equally as wrong both are false teachings, IMO

July 4, 2011 at 4:56 pm#250918

Blocked

Yes Gene,

I am senseless when my Lord says “I came down from heaven” and I believe him.

I am senseless to believe Paul and John when they say everything was created through him.

I am senseless to believe my Lord when he says he is the beginning of the creation of God.

No………….wait a minute here………………that's right, it is YOU who is senseless NOT to believe these scriptural teachings!

Phew! You had me confused for a minute! :laugh:

July 4, 2011 at 5:12 pm#250928

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2011,18:58)

Ed wrote:

Hi WJ,

Here is John's record of Jesus' account on equality…
My Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
How do you account for this non-equality?

HI WJ,

Still waiting for your answer… … … … …

Hi Ed

Sure, when you can tell me in what way was Jesus saying the Father was greater than he.

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.

However currently Jesus now owns and possesses all things and has not yet “subjected Himself” or the Kingdom to the Father.

Jesus said all things were in his hands and all authority and power and judgment is now his.

All things are held together by his own hands.

So please explain in what way the Father is greater than Jesus.

July 4, 2011 at 9:39 pm#250941

Participant

Wj…………Right, was that when he was GOD disguised as a Man , can you tell for what Purpose would GOD even do that in the first place, was it to Show us a man can Be GOD Himself or to fool us into thinking that man could become a GOD. Your religion like the Preexistences has not rhyme or reason for GOD to do anything the way you assert. Tell us WJ what was God trying to Show us , was it he could change into a Man and then (falsely) die and then resurrect Himself and change back into a GOD. Or perhaps like the other Preexistence believe God took a Existing Angel and MORPHED him into a HUMAN (DISGUISE) and then KILL Him a second time and then let him be “assumed” that he was truly dead but was not and then let him resurrect himself from the dead, But then he really was not dead was he?, and on and on it goes with you PREEXISTENCES AND TRINITARIANS all preachers of MYSTERY RELIGION, looking for the gullible to by into you false teaching and dogmas. Indeed Jesus was right, you blind guides gather the blind and go along your marry way until you all fall into a ditch. SAD WJ, IMO

July 4, 2011 at 9:57 pm#250942

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 04 2011,11:12)

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.

But wasn't it also when Jesus was in the flesh that you claim he was “God with us” and “equal to God”?

You can't have it both ways, Keith. Either Jesus WAS 100% God Almighty on earth or he WASN'T. Which is it?

July 4, 2011 at 10:02 pm#250943

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2011,03:56)

Yes Gene,

I am senseless when my Lord says “I came down from heaven” and I believe him.

I am senseless to believe Paul and John when they say everything was created through him.

I am senseless to believe my Lord when he says he is the beginning of the creation of God.

No………….wait a minute here………………that's right, it is YOU who is senseless NOT to believe these scriptural teachings!

Phew! You had me confused for a minute! :laugh:

Mike ……..You can make anything out of something if you take it out of context and lack the true Greek translation into English as you do.

Here is something you can try to get you head around if possible, When Jesus said to GOD that the disciples were from Above , does that also mean they preexisted before their berth. as you assume Jesus did. Why just stop with Jesus , now do you believe you Lord and Master as you say you do , if so them you must believe the disciples also came down from heaven to right? “O “thats right you hearing is selective and only applies to what you want it too. To you preconceived ideologies about Jesus not being a real HUMAN Being (EXACTLY LIKE WE ARE) So you bend scripture to that end and the truth has nothing to do with it does it Mike?

Paladin offers us all Growth , you offer nothing but confusion and insults and arguments and half wit PRIDE, as you trout out you “MYSTERY RELIGION” Here. IMO

July 4, 2011 at 10:12 pm#250945

Participant

gene

Quote

Paladin offers us all Growth , you offer nothing but confusion and insults and arguments and half wit PRIDE, as you trout out you “MYSTERY RELIGION” Here. IMO

yeah your IMO= in my OPINION for what your opinion is worth ,you are the most mystery religion guy on HN with your friend Istary never any scriptures only opinions.

July 4, 2011 at 10:22 pm#250948

Participant

Terricca…………Let don't go there, tell us what is better to quote a hundred scriptures like you do that has nothing to do with what anyone is taking about or speak a few word that give a clear understanding about a subject. You hardly are a person that should accuse others of anything , I told you when you first can here and began accusing everyone who disagree with you dogmas as being devils that your word fit you more then anyone else here and that still applies. IMO

July 4, 2011 at 11:00 pm#250957

Blocked

You're one to talk, Gene.

I can rarely make heads or tails out of the unorganized drivel you post.

Btw, are you watching your hero of “growth” slowly get his clock cleaned for lying in the other thread?

I'll do it every time, Gene. Not because I'm smarter, but because my understanding is actually based on the scriptures. How could I possibly go wrong doing it that way?

Hurry, go and see the most recent lie I've got him cornered in. Growth my butt!

July 4, 2011 at 11:02 pm#250958

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2011,16:02)

When Jesus said to GOD that the disciples were from Above , does that also mean they preexisted before their berth.

Scripture please?

July 4, 2011 at 11:54 pm#250964

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2011,16:22)

Gene

read what you say;

Quote

tell us what is better to quote a hundred scriptures like you do that has nothing to do with what anyone is taking about

look now that i have given scriptures you say;

Quote

, I told you when you first can here and began accusing everyone who disagree with you dogmas as being devils that your word fit

so this is what you think about my scriptures quotes and i would not doubt that this is your view on all scriptures ;DOGMA

just let any one look back at your opinions
Pierre

July 5, 2011 at 3:36 am#250997

Ed J

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,04:12)

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2011,18:58)

Ed wrote:

Hi WJ,

Here is John's record of Jesus' account on equality…
My Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
How do you account for this non-equality?

HI WJ,

Still waiting for your answer… … … … …

Hi Ed

Sure, when you can tell me in what way was Jesus saying the Father was greater than he.

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.

However currently Jesus now owns and possesses all things and has not yet “subjected Himself” or the Kingdom to the Father.

Jesus said all things were in his hands and all authority and power and judgment is now his.

All things are held together by his own hands.

So please explain in what way the Father is greater than Jesus.

Hi WJ,

YHVH knows everything (because he is God in heaven above and in Earth below: Joshua 2:11),
while Jesus implied that he did not know everything, consider what Jesus said in Matt.24:34-36.

Matt.24:34-36 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day
and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Quote

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will.

Are you implying the Jesus is no longer (according to WJ) subject to his fathers will?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 5, 2011 at 9:27 am#251019

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2011,07:31)

Thank you t8 for you once again have proven my point.

Adam is no different than adam in nature, therefore “adam” can also be “Adam”.

Why because the only distinction that you make is a capitol “A” as opposed to a small “a”. This is simply a carnal way of explaining away the fact that Jesus is not only theos/god in nature but completely fulfills the role of being God.

Remember t8 there are no Caps in the Hebrew or Greek so that means for you to prove “Adam” is greater than “adam” you have to look at context.

Is this progress?

Adam is Adam and adam.
Eve is adam and NOT Adam.

The Father is Theos and theos.
Jesus can be theos, as can be others, but NOT Theos.

Because the one true Theos is the Father.
So when Jesus, men, angels are legitimately called theos or elohim for reasons of nature, authority, or some other reason, it is not in the context of being identified as the the one true Theos, YHWH.

If the position that Jesus has with God becomes confusing for you which has been evident in your teachings over the years, I believe that you can now understand at least what I am saying if you use the Adam and the Eve example above. As it appears for the first time that you have comprehended what I am saying there.

July 5, 2011 at 2:58 pm#251030

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,20:27)

T8……That is right, and when the LOGOS is (IN) a Person they are Spiritually Sons of GOD the same as Jesus was and is. Jesus Had the LOGOS (IN) HIM. So from that sense as Paladin brought out the LOGOS became flesh, it was actually (IN) the flesh man Jesus and can be in all flesh also. Maybe we are all making some progress here after all.

Peace and love to you and yours T8……………………….gene

July 5, 2011 at 3:07 pm#251031

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2011,10:54)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2011,16:22)

Gene

read what you say;

Quote

tell us what is better to quote a hundred scriptures like you do that has nothing to do with what anyone is taking about

look now that i have given scriptures you say;

Quote

, I told you when you first can here and began accusing everyone who disagree with you dogmas as being devils that your word fit

so this is what you think about my scriptures quotes and i would not doubt that this is your view on all scriptures ;DOGMA

just let any one look back at your opinions
Pierre

Pierre………..I an sorry if i insulted you , i will try not to, but Just go back and look at your second and third quote of me and see how you left out the rest of the sentences> Anyone can do that and twist up what is said . Look i will try to be kinder to you i know you have a language translation problem and i need to always consider that, SORRY Pierre.

peace and love……………………………….gene

July 5, 2011 at 3:34 pm#251033

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2011,16:57)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 04 2011,11:12)

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.

But wasn't it also when Jesus was in the flesh that you claim he was “God with us” and “equal to God”?

You can't have it both ways, Keith. Either Jesus WAS 100% God Almighty on earth or he WASN'T. Which is it?

Mike

Sure I can because Jesus in nature was\is 100% God according to the Spirit and 100% man according to the flesh.

Son of man = man

Son of God = God

This is consistent with YHVH appearing to men in the flesh in the Hebrew scriptures. Of course you would say that they were “Angels” claiming to be YHVH and claiming the divine name when it was considered by the Hebrew Scribes themselves to be so Holy they wouldn't speak it or write it in its entirety So for an Angel to claim to be YHVH would be blasphemy.

I think it was Kathi that told you that she “sent” her husband to the store and her husband obeyed, so since when does that mean her husband is “less human” than her? Since when does Jesus coming as a servant to his Father mean he is less “theos\god” than the Father? Jesus Spirit is the same Spirit as the Father Gods Spirit. (Rom 8:9) Is this too simple for you and t8 to understand?

There is Only One Begotten Son of God who is in every way 'theos\god” like his Father or else he is a “demi-god” or “freak of nature”, half man and half theos\god like you and t8 believe.

Since when does Jesus who was in very nature theos\god by humbling himself and coming in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemning sin in the flesh mean in nature he is less theos\god than the Father?

For the scriptures to claim Jesus took on himself the likeness of sinful flesh and condemn sin in the flesh is a confession in and of itself that Jesus is God.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with “theos\god” and the Word was “theos\god”.

Or we can use t8s model…

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the [divine] and the Word was [divine].

Of course John could have used a different Greek word than “theos” for divine in John 1:1c if it was his intent to depict Jesus as less “theos\god” than John 1:1b.

Now tell me in those 2 sentences how the “theos\god” or [divine] in John 1:1b is less “theos\god” or less [divine] than the “theos\god” or [divine] in John 1:1c?

So when t8 takes out the word “theos/god” and injects the word “divine” then he is corrupting the text and Johns intended meaning. That is what all those who teach false doctrines do, that is they change the text and corrupt its true meaning.

July 5, 2011 at 7:30 pm#251058

Ed J

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,04:12)

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2011,18:58)

Ed wrote:

Hi WJ,

Here is John's record of Jesus' account on equality…
My Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
How do you account for this non-equality?

HI WJ,

Still waiting for your answer… … … … …

Hi Ed

Sure, when you can tell me in what way was Jesus saying the Father was greater than he.

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.

However currently Jesus now owns and possesses all things and has not yet “subjected Himself” or the Kingdom to the Father.

Jesus said all things were in his hands and all authority and power and judgment is now his.

All things are held together by his own hands.

So please explain in what way the Father is greater than Jesus.

Hi WJ,

You flip the question around that I have asked you, WJ, and then ignore my response; why?
YHVH knows everything (because he is God in heaven above and in Earth below: Joshua 2:11),
while Jesus implied that he did not know everything, consider what Jesus said in Matt.24:34-36. <– Please address.

Quote

Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will.

Are you implying the Jesus is no longer (according to WJ) subject to his fathers will? <– PLEASE ANSWER.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 5, 2011 at 8:45 pm#251063