Bizzaro World Doctrines

[Proclaimer]

I like Bizzaro World. Plenty of laughs had by all. More please. WJ, more inspiration too.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 20 2011,08:14)

John 6:38 – For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. Non-preexister:  Jesus meant that the prophecy of him came down from heaven. But the Jews understood him to be saying HE came down from heaven, right? John 6:42 – They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” Non-preexister:  The Jews were spiritually darkened and did not get the gist that Jesus was saying the prophecy of him came down from heaven. John 6:62 – What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! Did some of those Jews later see JESUS ascend to heaven, or did they see the prophecy of him ascend to heaven? Non-preexister:  Oh, this verse refers to Jesus ascending from the grave back to the earth! Really?  No one SAW him do that.  However, some of those Jews from John 6 DID in fact see him ascend TO HEAVEN: Acts 1:9 – After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. Non-preexister:  You Trinitarians and Preexistencers and Gnostic's are all in the same boat.  You all serve to SEPARATE Jesus from our exact Identity! What?  Is that the answer to the scriptures we just discussed?     Moral of the story:  MY doctrine allows me to read, “I came down from heaven” and believe it.  THEIR doctrine insists that they add illogical thoughts and implications into the scripture that aren't even hinted at. My doctrine doesn't require such actions of me.

Mike you open yourself up on that claim as Jesus states he sent his disciples into the world as he was sent into the world.

Do you believe his disciples are preexistent?

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…………..Kind of like you and your root and offspring of David thing right, So i would not be so hard on the trinitarians when you preexistence are doing the same thing right?.

peace and love……………………………gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ June 20 2011,18:06)

Quote So that means to you that Mary is the mother of “a god” right? Actually WJ, that is reinforcement of my post. Mary was the mother of Jesus humanity, but the Trinity Doctrine aided the doctrine that she was the mother of God because that doctrine says that Jesus is God.

t8

But you said…

Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49)

Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.

So all of your little explanations for the word “theos” will not suffice because the scriptures clearly teach…

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “there is no god [theos] but one [heis]”. 1 Cor 8:4

You can play those word games all you want, but the fact is Jesus is “soveriegn” over all the creation having all authority and power and according to scriptures he at this time is not even subject to the Father for even all judgment is in Jesus hands. John 5:22, 1 Cor 15:28

Polytheism and Henotheism is unscriptural.

Quote (t8 @ June 20 2011,18:06)

Mary was the mother of Jesus humanity, but the Trinity Doctrine aided the doctrine that she was the mother of God because that doctrine says that Jesus is God.

Thanks t8 for admitting with the Trinitarians that Mary was the mother of Jesus humanity.

So when you say…

Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49)

Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.

That means to you Jesus is “a little god/theos and the Father is a “big god/theos” even though scriptures are clear that Jesus rules with all authority and power and he is the source of all things to us making him our “One True God”.

Remember god/theos is based on context in scriptures whether it be the “One True God” or other so-called gods, and there were no “caps” in Hebrew and Greek.

In context t8 can you prove Jesus to us is not the “One True God” being that all things are in his hands?  

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2011,08:10)

Mike…………..Kind of like you and your root and offspring of David thing right,  So i would not be so hard on the trinitarians when you preexistence are doing the same thing right?. peace and love……………………………gene

GB

True. They believe Jesus was “a god” born or created by God before time.

That teaching comes from Greek Mythology. God birthing Gods.

WJ

[david]

“That teaching comes from Greek Mythology…..” –wj

Ironic quote of the day.

[david]

Actually, it's not ironic. Its just funny that a trinitarian would say that.

[terraricca]

I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones what stop you from do it over and over again? nothing

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,16:06)

I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,16:06) I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones what stop you from do it over and over again? nothing David What are you saying, that I am lying when I said “God bringing birth to gods” has its roots in Greek Mythology? How many “theos/gods” do you have and serve David”? WJwhat stop you from do it over and over again? nothing

David

What are you saying, that I am lying when I said “God bringing birth to gods” has its roots in Greek Mythology?

How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 21 2011,16:30)

Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,16:06) I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,16:06) I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones what stop you from do it over and over again? nothing David What are you saying, that I am lying when I said “God bringing birth to gods” has its roots in Greek Mythology? How many “theos/gods” do you have and serve David”? WJwhat stop you from do it over and over again? nothing David What are you saying, that I am lying when I said “God bringing birth to gods” has its roots in Greek Mythology? How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”? WJ

Sorry David

That post was meant for Peirre. When I made the post for some reason I thought it didn't sound like you.

WJ

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,08:30)

How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”? WJ

WJ admitted earlier to theos having other uses, but he did that only because it suited him at the time.

Now it doesn't suit him, so he goes back to ridiculing the idea that 'ye are gods' and that the use of theos there was also applicable to Jesus when he quoted the scripture which also says, “you are all sons of the Most High”, which Jesus follows up by saying, “why accuse me of blasphemy because I SAID, “I am the son of God”.

See how WJ is not consistent. He knows that theos has more than one usage just as the word 'adam' does. But he acknowledges it when it suits him only. He should however acknowledge it all the time even now. Not really the fruit of truth is it. Someone who loves truth will utter truth even if it contradicts his own doctrine. Why, because he is a servant of truth and willing to let it change him because he knows it will make him a better person.

So WJ thanks for another example of Bizzaro World Doctrines which is that some acknowledge things only when it suits them, and then take an opposite stance when it doesn't suit them. This shows disregard for truth and a higher regard for one's own reputation which comes from pride.

In this case you acknowledge the use of theos as being legitimately used outside of the one true God, and then laugh at the idea later on when talking about something else. How are we to trust anything you say?

[Pastry]

t8 I am sure surprised that you believe in the trinity. Even though Jesus is called God in two Scriptures, He is not the Father who is abocve all.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the
woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Even by Jesus own words He saidJhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Peace Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ June 21 2011,16:54)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,08:30) How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”? WJ WJ admitted earlier to theos having other uses, but he did that only because it suited him at the time.

t8

This is not true at all and I challenge you to show where I have ever said that the word theos/god does not have different uses.

I have over and over again stated there is “only one true theos/god” and that all other theos/gods like Paul said are so-called theos/gods by men.

I have over and over claimed that elohyim and theos should be translated according to context.

If context bears out it is men, idols, kings, or false gods then it should be read that way as the definition clearly states.

In context Jesus is the true theos.

It is your theology that says that men, idols, kings or judges are “real gods” when the scriptures cleary teach there is no god/theos but one.

You play the word games that it means divine and the word divine is not in the definition.

You like Mike and others claim “there is only one true god” but then you say there are many gods.

So please show me where I have taught anything different, otherwise you should stop making false claims.

WJ

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,03:09)

Quote (t8 @ June 21 2011,16:54) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,08:30) How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”? WJ WJ admitted earlier to theos having other uses, but he did that only because it suited him at the time. t8 This is not true at all and I challenge you to show where I have ever said that the word theos/god does not have different uses. I have over and over again stated there is “only one true theos/god” and that all other theos/gods like Paul said are so-called theos/gods by men. I have over and over claimed that elohyim and theos should be translated according to context. If context bears out it is men, idols, kings, or false gods then it should be read that way as the definition clearly states. In context Jesus is the true theos. It is your theology that says that men, idols, kings or judges are “real gods” when the scriptures cleary teach there is no god/theos but one. You play the word games that it means divine and the word divine is not in the definition. You like Mike and others claim “there is only one true god” but then you say there are many gods. So please show me where I have taught anything different, otherwise you should stop making false claims. WJ

I second WJ's Post as a Witness.

I have claimed likewise.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2011,23:48)

Mike you open yourself up on that claim as Jesus states he sent his disciples into the world as he was sent into the world.

Hi Kerwin,

How many of Jesus' disciples said “I came DOWN from heaven”?  Stick with the Bizzaro reasoning I actually posted, and if you can, refute MY understanding of those scriptural words.  Because THAT is what this thread is all about:  I'm hoping that people like you and Gene and Keith WILL come over here and clarify some of this nonsense.

I will await said clarification from you about “I came down from heaven”, as it will undoubtedly give us even MORE gibberish to headline in this thread.  

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2011,07:10)

Mike…………..Kind of like you and your root and offspring of David thing right,  So i would not be so hard on the trinitarians when you preexistence are doing the same thing right?. peace and love……………………………gene

Thank you Gene for this one:

Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Non-preexister:  This really means that Jesus was FROM the Root of David.

But it doesn't say “FROM” the Root of David, does it?  Also, it would already be abundantly clear that someone who was FROM the Root of David would be a branch, or “offspring” of David, right?  So why add the words “AND Offspring” to the sentence?  It would be like Jesus saying, “I am the Offspring AND the Offspring of David”.  

This is just another of many cases where people have to add their own words into the scriptures to make those scriptures teach what they WANT them to teach.

My doctrine doesn't require this this kind of nonsense.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2011,12:48)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,03:09) Quote (t8 @ June 21 2011,16:54) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,08:30) How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”? WJ WJ admitted earlier to theos having other uses, but he did that only because it suited him at the time. t8 This is not true at all and I challenge you to show where I have ever said that the word theos/god does not have different uses. I have over and over again stated there is “only one true theos/god” and that all other theos/gods like Paul said are so-called theos/gods by men. I have over and over claimed that elohyim and theos should be translated according to context. If context bears out it is men, idols, kings, or false gods then it should be read that way as the definition clearly states. In context Jesus is the true theos. It is your theology that says that men, idols, kings or judges are “real gods” when the scriptures cleary teach there is no god/theos but one. You play the word games that it means divine and the word divine is not in the definition. You like Mike and others claim “there is only one true god” but then you say there are many gods. So please show me where I have taught anything different, otherwise you should stop making false claims. WJ I second WJ's Post as a Witness. I have claimed likewise.

He says this in one of the debates I am having with him.

Quote

Besides it is obvious that to call Jesus “theos/god” would not be blasphemy when Jesus quoted the Psalmist who spoke of the wicked fallen judges who would die like men, though he said “I said ye are gods”.

What WJ doesn't realise is that the scripture that Jesus refers to says:

Psalm 82:6
I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.

Then Jesus finishes by saying: “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'”.

See that. Jesus says they are theos, in the context that it was originally written, which was that they were sons of the Most High God, and then basically says, I am not blaspheming because I also say that I am the son of God.

This part escapes Trinitarians, but regardless of that, WJ admits in the quote that Jesus said “ye are theos” and thus he admits that Jesus is not saying that they are God, but nevertheless, theos, and before you condemn this, Jesus relates it to himself except that instead of him being theos as a son of the Most High God, he is actually THE son of the Most High God.

You guys admit that Jesus and the Psalmist used 'theos' in a way that wasn't defining the Most High God, and then say it is not possible.

This is another live demonstration for Bizzaro World Doctrines.

Tune in next week when WJ adds another strange doctrine innnn .. Bizzaro World Doctrines.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Pastry @ June 21 2011,15:57)

t8 I am sure surprised that you believe in the trinity.

Hi Irene,

You have mistaken something t8 said, for he clearly does NOT believe in the trinity, and tirelessly and brilliantly shows how comically flawed that doctrine is.

Perhaps your new meds are messin' with your head?

I pray you are getting stronger and healthier every day.

peace and love,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2011,15:30)

Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,16:06) I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2011,16:06) I do not find it ironic ,if you lie ones what stop you from do it over and over again? nothing David What are you saying, that I am lying when I said “God bringing birth to gods” has its roots in Greek Mythology? How many “theos/gods” do you have and serve David”? WJwhat stop you from do it over and over again? nothing David What are you saying, that I am lying when I said “God bringing birth to gods” has its roots in Greek Mythology? How many “theos/gods” do you have, believe in and serve David”? WJ

WJ

to me and my understanding the scriptures do not teach the trinity,

so for those reason i have say when people are believing in one lie they could easy believe more,

to say the truth ;there is only one God who does not share his being (glory ,reputation)with anyone else

this single the God of creation,all other so called god can under any way be equal to him or stand in his way,

this God start his creation to create a being that he will use for all others and so give to us his name and also his connection to him ,the word is his name ,his status is the son of God ,they have a same will not that the son his a machine but he loves his father so that whatever the father does and do and says the son is in total acceptance with it,

we can easy say that they have both the same spirit (will)

but to separate all wills from each other God messenger have shown that whatever will comes from the father his called holy spirit when on the other hand all other spirit s are just called spirit of;;;(will)

the reason why it is called spirit is because without spirit (will) that God as given nothing can truly move,

it is by the will of God that all things are doing what they doing and we can see it.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 21 2011,16:09)

I have over and over again stated there is “only one true theos/god” and that all other theos/gods like Paul said are so-called theos/gods by men.

Thanks Keith for this one:

We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;

Keith repeatedly quotes the italicized portion of verse 4 above, in an effort to claim that Jesus must BE that “no God but one”, since he IS called a god in scripture.

But he leaves out the rest of Paul's words, which say there ARE MANY gods, in HEAVEN and on earth.

Paul's words here are CLEARLY shown to be true by the scriptures themselves, which NEVER EVER have the words “false god” or “so-called god” in the original languages.

Jehovah could not POSSIBLY be “The God OF gods” if there were literally no other gods at all.

Satan was called “the god of Ekron” by Jehovah Himself, who NEVER implied he was a “false god”.  Satan was later called “the god of this world” by Paul, who also NEVER implied that he was a “false god”.

The “no God but one” and “for us there is but one God” language is OBVIOUSLY intended to be a statement of emphasis, placing Jehovah ABOVE any other god, real OR imagined.  How do we know?  Because Paul CLEARLY told us WHO that “one God” was.  He said it was “THE FATHER”.  And if “THE FATHER” is LITERALLY the ONLY god, then “THE SON” is NOT a god at all.  

But here's where it gets all Bizzaro:  The Trinitarians claim that because Satan is called “god” but is not “THE FATHER”, he must be a “false god” – even though Satan is VERY real and VERY powerful, and was NEVER called a “false god”.

But when it comes to Jesus, who is also called “god”. and who is also not “THE FATHER”, he is for some reason not a “false god”, but the SAME God as his OWN God.  

Why the different rules of understanding?  If both Jesus and Satan are gods who are NOT the Father, then why don't the same rules apply to both of them?

This is called the “Exception for Jesus” logic, and I will display more of this nonsense in other posts.

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