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Quote (t8 @ July 07 2011,17:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,03:34) This is your model… Son of man = adam
Son of God = theosYou see the deception in that you say the word “God” = “theos”?
If you were not trying to deceive you would write…
Son of God = Theos.
WJ, you truly lack understanding.Son of God does not equal Theos
t8Really? That is like saying “Son of Man does not equal Man”.
Then what is “The Only Begotten Son of God” if he is not God?
Is he a mix of God and Man? Is he half Man and half God? Is he a freak of nature? Is he a demi-god?
Is Jesus fully theos\god or half theos\god?
Is Jesus fully adam\man or is he half adam\man?
Quote (t8 @ July 07 2011,17:08) Are you a son of God? If so, you are Theos by your own admission.
There you go making us equal to Jesus again which is basically diminishing who and what Jesus is, the “Only Begotten Son of God” and not a son like all the rest!Quote (t8 @ July 07 2011,17:08) Back to the drawing board WJ.
Not back to your drawing board t8, because it smells of heresy, Henotheism and Polytheism. Your theology has its roots in Greek pagan mythology which believes God begets gods.Quote (t8 @ July 07 2011,17:08) Son of God = son of Theos.
Son of Theos is not the same as Theos.
Ha Ha, there you go again diminishing who and what Jesus is for now you are saying Jesus in nature is not the same as the Father in nature though the scriptures say he is, John 1:1, Phil 2:4-6, Heb 1:3.Be honest t8 and stop playing the word games since the Greek has no caps you should say…
Son of theos\god = son of theos\god. Son of theos\god is not the same as theos\god. See how confusing that is?
You say…
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) “Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.”
But then you say…“Son of theos\god is not the same as theos\god.”
Quote (t8 @ July 07 2011,17:08) If it was, then all who are of God are Theos.
Yet you say that angels, men, and satan, are theos\gods! That is simply word games again!t8 says there is only one true theos\god yet t8 says there are many theos\gods!
The bias and inconsistency’s of your doctrine is evident and merely contrived to diminish Jesus being God not only in title but in very nature, power, love, wisdom and everything that is God.
When are you going to admit that ”All things come to us from Jesus own hands and that he is in everyway theos\god as the Father is theos\god to every true believer”?
You can't have one without the other!
WJ
Hi WJ,
I appreciate your attempting to answer my previous questions!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2011,02:14) ED It is Jesus that gave us the promise that no man can pluck us out of “His Hand”, and that he will never leave us or forsake us, and to me that makes him my Lord and my God and my Savior.
WJ
Was it not Jesus who also said…John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.1) Would you consider Jesus here to be part of “ALL”? … and …
2) Would they still be in God The Father's hand after he gave them?Would you be so kind as to answer these questions as well; thank you!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 14 2011,13:08) Hi WJ, I appreciate your attempting to answer my previous questions!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2011,02:14) ED It is Jesus that gave us the promise that no man can pluck us out of “His Hand”, and that he will never leave us or forsake us, and to me that makes him my Lord and my God and my Savior.
WJ
Was it not Jesus who also said…John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.1) Would you consider Jesus here to be part of “ALL”? … and …
EDNo! Because many of the scriptures speak of all things which do not include Jesus or the Father. For instance the scripture says “All things” were created by or through him and for him and we know Jesus is not included in the all.
Jesus claims his hand is equal to the Father in context of that verse which means Jesus is claiming that his hand is equal to the Fathers and also greater than all because he says they are ONE.
Jesus also said “No one” has seen God but yet he had. Jesus said no one was “good” yet he said he is the “Good Shephard”.
Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2011,13:08) 2) Would they still be in God The Father's hand after he gave them?
Absolutely because they are “One” and in that same context Jesus said he and the Father are One and it was for that reason they wanted to stone him because he made himself equal to the Father God.The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; “but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God”. John 10:33
For anyone to claim they were “One” with YHVH and that the Sheep of God are in their hands as they are in YHVH's hands would have been blasphemy!
But you Ed have denied that all things come from Jesus own hands and that he is “The Savior” of his Sheep!
Have you committed your life, soul and Spirit into Jesus hands ED? Is Jesus your Lord and God and Savior?
WJ
Quote (t8 @ July 10 2011,18:47)
I believed in that doctrine once and have no problem admitting I was wrong.
t8So you exchanged the Jesus you first recieved for another Jesus?
HMMM! That sounds familiar! What does the scriptures say about that besides where it says “they went out from among us because they were not of us”? Thats right Paul talks about another Jesus and another Gospel!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Thank you for responding to my questions!
Your friend
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 14 2011,15:45) Hi WJ, Thank you for responding to my questions!
Your friend
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYou are welcome!
WJ
.
Equal or unequal?“The servant is not greater than his LORD; neither
he that is sent greater than he that sent him.” (John 13:16-17)
As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. (John 20:21)The Apostle Paul expresses how Jesus, as God’s ONLY begotten Son,
is made Lord (meaning owner) over us, to the “Glory” of “God the Father”!Matthew 12:16-21 And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled
which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying (Isaiah 42:1-4), Behold my(YHVH's) servant, whom I(YHVH)
have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my [HolySpirit] upon him (John 1:33-34),
and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised
reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.My father is greater than I …John 14:28
My father is greater than all …John 10:29Where is there any evidence whatsoever to support their claim of his equality with the father? …NO-WHERE!
1. Can God equally die? …NO! (Isaiah 57:15)
2. Can God equally be tempted with evil? …NO! (James 1:13)
3. Can God equally point to someone who is higher? …NO! (Hebrews 6:13)Yet in 'Bazzaro World', the cry is equality with NO BASIS WHATSOEVER!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ July 13 2011,03:32) Quote (t8 @ July 07 2011,17:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,03:34) This is your model… Son of man = adam
Son of God = theosYou see the deception in that you say the word “God” = “theos”?
If you were not trying to deceive you would write…
Son of God = Theos.
WJ, you truly lack understanding.Son of God does not equal Theos
t8Really? That is like saying “Son of Man does not equal Man”.
Then what is “The Only Begotten Son of God” if he is not God?
……
WJ
WJ, Adam was called son of God too. Is he theos? And if yes, then because of your doctrine that all are Adam, then we are all God too. Not to mention that we are sons of God and so are others who are recorded in the Book of Job.Too many holes that if this were golf, I could get a hole in one.
WJ, admit that son of God does not make one God/YHWH.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2011,06:23) Quote (t8 @ July 10 2011,18:47)
I believed in that doctrine once and have no problem admitting I was wrong.
t8So you exchanged the Jesus you first recieved for another Jesus?
HMMM! That sounds familiar! What does the scriptures say about that besides where it says “they went out from among us because they were not of us”? Thats right Paul talks about another Jesus and another Gospel!
WJ
I exchanged my understanding of Jesus to the son of God from a member of a Trinity.Although, I also believed he was son of God too, and thought it a mystery that he was both that and God.
Of course as I matured in the faith, I saw through some of the doctrines of the harlot.
As we grow in the faith, we should be able to see through some of the deceptions out there that deceived people teach.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2011,06:09) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; “but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God”. John 10:33
There you go again siding with the Jews who claimed Jesus was saying he was God.Read the full story and read Jesus defense against this misconception.
John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?Did Jesus say, “I am God”.
No. I will let you read it. I don't need to repeat it do I.
all
how can Adam be the equal of Jesus ? this is impossible
one is created out of the dust of the earth ,while Jesus is made to be born trough a women ,if Jesus is a new creation then God lied and did not rest on the seventh day or the seventh day is over,or Jesus was and is the son of God before God made him come has a man ,
is this make sens ?
Pierre
To All………..As in the “first Adam all die as in the (SECOND ADAM) all shall be made alive” Adam is a name for Man kind, Jesus was another ADAM not a MORPHED anything. The word ADAM means RED Clay or Dust Jesus was also made from RED CLAY or dust, Adam was made by God, Jesus was Made By GOD also , ADAM was a SON of God , Jesus was a Son of God, where is the difference between Jesus and Adam as far as there origins and there make up goes they both were and are of the HUMAN kind. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………………………………………
…geneGene, we would all believe your theory if the things you mentioned were the ONLY things said about the origins of Jesus in the scriptures. But as most of us know, what you've posted adds up to only HALF of what we know about our Savior.
You cannot rightfully blame US for believing ALL of the scriptures while you only believe HALF of them, can you?
You do realize that the reason we are at odds with each other is because we believe ALL of the scriptures while you only believe HALF of them, right?Mike …….There are all kinds of things said about Jesus origins and none of the meet your conclusions, you and your Preexistent trinitarian fellow believers also believe all kind of thing No scripture say specifically , so you both go about forcing the text to meet your own dogmas. IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2011,11:51) To All………..As in the “first Adam all die as in the (SECOND ADAM) all shall be made alive” Adam is a name for Man kind, Jesus was another ADAM not a MORPHED anything. The word ADAM means RED Clay or Dust Jesus was also made from RED CLAY or dust, Adam was made by God, Jesus was Made By GOD also , ADAM was a SON of God , Jesus was a Son of God, where is the difference between Jesus and Adam as far as there origins and there make up goes they both were and are of the HUMAN kind. IMO peace and love to you all……………………………………………………………………………
…gene
geneyou missing the point
Pierre
Gene,
MY Lord said, “I came down from heaven” and I believe him.
YOUR Lord said, “I came down from heaven” and you DON'T believe him.
That is our biggest difference in understanding. And our Lord being sent from heaven into the world as an atoning sacrifice doesn't in any way make him the God who so loved the world that He sent His Son into it as an atoning sacrifice.
So the fact that you always try to lump us in with Trinitarians, who proclaim a doctrine that I often call a “comically flawed man-made doctrine”, only goes to show that you can't really refute the the words of Jesus I listed above. It shows that since you can't scripturally compete with us pre-existers, you choose to slander us by calling us by a name (Trinitarians) that you know doesn't fit us.
Gene, we deal in scriptural truths. You deal in name-calling to AVOID dealing in scriptural truths.
Mike……….A good study would for you would be (what does the word Heaven mean). It is contrasted with Beneath Heaven is a symbolic term meaning (HIGH PLACE) as the earth is considered the LOW PLACE, Jesus told his disciples they were from above also just like he was Mike, He also told the Pharisees the were from below. Heaven and earth can be considered high and Low , this also transfers to Intellects, or spirits, there is a higher intellect from good and there is a lower intellect recieved from the earth evil. notice in Revelation evil that is placed away from the earth goes into the (BOTTOMLESS) Pit. why is that Mike ? is it because there is no end to Evil, therfore a “BOTTOMLESS PIT” Just as there is not end to good either, they, both good and evil have no end to them , it's like up and down, right or left. We have many terms that show this . IMO
peace and love……………………………………………………………………gene
Gene, the Jews to whom Jesus said, “I came down from heaven” were able to understand that Jesus was claiming he came down from heaven. They didn't understand why this man who they knew was from Nazareth would say such a thing, but they sure understood that he was saying it.
Gene, Jesus also said in that same teaching that no one has seen the Father except for him who came from God. How is it that Jesus had seen the Father, Gene? Even 50 years after Jesus died, John said in his gospel that no man had EVER seen God at any time.
But Jesus said he DID see Him. How can both of these things be scripturally true if Jesus was never anything but a man?
Mike……..The Jew were seeing just like you are, they were looking for a Physical place . But Jesus was not meaning that at all, He simply come forth from a higher level (Spirit Intellect) they (the Jew) were from the earth and they spoke from earthly terms Jesus was from a Higher level of understanding i.e. Heavenly.
Mike………..read this and put it together OK,
Joh 6:45-46…….> It is written in the prophets, And they shall (ALL) be (TAUGHT) of or BY GOD, Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of or BY the Father comes unto me. vers 46…> Not that any man (including Jesus) has seen the Father (why because he is Spirit), now notice carefully Mike, save he which is (of GOD), another word HIS SPIRIT (INTELLECT) he (HAS) SEEN THE FATHER:
Mike God is Spirit (higher Intellect) and you can only see him through the Spirit in your Mind, and that also applied to Jesus. IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 21 2011,05:53) Mike……..The Jew were seeing just like you are, they were looking for a Physical place .
Surely if Jesus is from Heaven, then he is from a spiritual place and not a physical one.When he came to a physical place he took on a physical nature. And when he left and returned to the glory he had with the Father before the world began, he went back to the heavenly realm where he is seated at God's right hand side.
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