- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2011,07:31) Thank you t8 for you once again have proven my point. Adam is no different than adam in nature, therefore “adam” can also be “Adam”.
Why because the only distinction that you make is a capitol “A” as opposed to a small “a”. This is simply a carnal way of explaining away the fact that Jesus is not only theos/god in nature but completely fulfills the role of being God.
Remember t8 there are no Caps in the Hebrew or Greek so that means for you to prove “Adam” is greater than “adam” you have to look at context.
Is this progress?Adam is Adam and adam.
What are you saying, that adam cannot also be Adam? In what way is adam less than Adam in nature? Is it just because he was the first Adam or adam? See how confusing your doctrine is? You should stop teaching if you can’t be consistent and make some sense.Jesus is both “Adam” and “adam” is he not?
Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) Eve is adam and NOT Adam.
There you go playing those word games again with the caps.In what way is Eve less adam than Adam? Is Eve less human than Adam?
Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) The Father is Theos and theos.
So how do you make that distinction? Is it not context and the nature of the one spoken of?So the Father can be “Theos” by name and “theos” by nature is that what you are saying? Explain to us how “Theos” and “theos” are different in reference to the Father, because so far you are all over the place with the word “theos\god”.
Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) Jesus can be theos, as can be others, but NOT Theos.
Why don’t you be honest and say “Jesus can be “a theos” like all the others”? But then you wouldn’t be telling the truth because Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” and not “a theos” like the others is he?This is simply more of your word games to diminish who and what Jesus is. You cannot tell us “How Jesus is less ‘Theos” than “Theos” can you t8?
Jesus not only has the title “Theos” but also completely and totally fills the role of being “Theos” since all things belong to him and all things are in his hands!
Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) Because the one true Theos is the Father.
This means that Jesus is not a “True Theos” to you since you say he is “a theos” and not the “Theos”.Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) So when Jesus, men, angels are legitimately called theos or elohim for reasons of nature, authority, or some other reason, it is not in the context of being identified as the the one true Theos, YHWH.
But Jesus being the Word that was with God and was God and the fact that all things are his and were created by him and for him, and the fact that Jesus is the source of all things to all “True believers” and is currently fulfilling the role of “Theos” as God to the creation since by him all things consist, in context proves Jesus is “Theos\God” and not “a theos\god” among many gods as your Henotheistic and Polytheistic doctrine teaches!Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) If the position that Jesus has with God becomes confusing for you which has been evident in your teachings over the years, I believe that you can now understand at least what I am saying if you use the Adam and the Eve example above. As it appears for the first time that you have comprehended what I am saying there.
What I comprehend t8 is your false teaching that Jesus is less “Theos\God” in nature than the Father, though you cannot prove that he is. Just as you cannot prove that adam is less in nature than “Adam” which means that “adam” can also be “Adam” if his name is Adam”.So what that equates to is you serve a Jesus that is not equally “theos” as “Theos” therefore to you Jesus is some sort of “demi-theos\god” or freak of nature that is neither God or Man but some sort of cross between God and Man, or a half-breed!
What I comprehend is you serve and bow down to more than “One theos\god since you say…
Quote (t8 @ July 05 2011,04:27) The Father is Theos and theos.
And…Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
How many theos\gods do you bow down to and serve t8?WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ July 07 2011,15:36) ad hominem attacks now; aye?
Call it what you want. I am just pointing out the truth that you are here to promote your websight and your book. That is why you have to post all that mess in your signature.But why didn't you answer the questions and especially this one…
So then Jesus is not “theos\god”?
WJ
Hi WJ,Are you having trouble understanding my posts?
You are asking a question that I already answered.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 07 2011,16:17) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ July 07 2011,15:36) ad hominem attacks now; aye?
Call it what you want. I am just pointing out the truth that you are here to promote your websight and your book. That is why you have to post all that mess in your signature.But why didn't you answer the questions and especially this one…
So then Jesus is not “theos\god”?
WJ
Hi WJ,Are you having trouble understanding my posts?
You are asking a question that I already answered.
No you didn't because you gave me some 50% theos garbage that is not found in scriptures.Is Jesus “theos\god” or not?
Was Jesus half “theos\god” in John 1:1 before he came in the flesh?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,08:33) Quote (Ed J @ July 07 2011,16:17) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ July 07 2011,15:36) ad hominem attacks now; aye?
Call it what you want. I am just pointing out the truth that you are here to promote your websight and your book. That is why you have to post all that mess in your signature.But why didn't you answer the questions and especially this one…
So then Jesus is not “theos\god”?
WJ
Hi WJ,Are you having trouble understanding my posts?
You are asking a question that I already answered.
No you didn't because you gave me some 50% theos garbage that is not found in scriptures.Is Jesus “theos\god” or not?
Was Jesus half “theos\god” in John 1:1 before he came in the flesh?
WJ
Hi WJ,50% of Jesus make-up (in the flesh) was God.
Jesus is not in John 1:1?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,03:34) This is your model… Son of man = adam
Son of God = theosYou see the deception in that you say the word “God” = “theos”?
If you were not trying to deceive you would write…
Son of God = Theos.
WJ, you truly lack understanding.Son of God does not equal Theos
Are you a son of God?
If so, you are Theos by your own admission.
Back to the drawing board WJ.
Son of God = son of Theos.
Son of Theos is not the same as Theos.If it was, then all who are of God are Theos.
Wake up WJ.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,08:17) There you go playing those word games again with the caps. In what way is Eve less adam than Adam? Is Eve less human than Adam?
WJ, you confirm your lack of understanding by posting more fluff.Eve in nature is adam just as Adam in nature is Adam. We agree here and this is not the debate.
What you stubbornly ignore is Adam in identity is Adam and Eve is not.
Just as there are many adams, there is one Adam the father of our nature.
Although technically speaking there is a second one, but that is not the scope of this debate.Now take that understanding with Theos.
We know that there is one God the Father. That is saying that there is one WHO is God. There is one who is in identity the true Theos. That is the Father. This is taught in the New Testament and yet you oppose it. Other uses of theos are qualitative or talking of false theos in identity. This is the reality of the usages of theos in scripture and you cannot get your understanding around this fact or you stubbornly ignore it to your own detriment.
You truly are deceived about who God is and the meaning of definite articles in scripture.
You should not teach in your current state. It brings a harsher judgement to yourself when you teach false doctrines and pride in your own understanding goes before a fall in your understanding.Hey Keith,
What about my last post? Did you overlook it? Or have I again overlooked your response?
To All,
How about this equation:
The son of the ORIGINAL and ONLY EXISTING “Adam” was AN adam, but not THE Adam who brought him forth.
The son of the ORIGINAL and ONLY EXISTING God Almighty is A god, but not THE God who brought him forth.
Does anyone find fault with this comparison?
And Keith, about bowing down to “more than one god”, read 1 Samuel 28:13-14. After the medium called Samuel “elohim”, Saul immediately bowed down.
Also, read 1 Chronicles 29:20. The KJV says, “and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.” Keith, do you think Israel was worshipping King David AS IF HE WAS God Almighty, or equal to Him? Or were they worshipping ONLY God, and at the same time showing reverence to God's servant, David?
Oh what you would do to have a scripture like either of these that applied to Jesus, huh?
Yet they DON'T apply to Jesus, so you are able to understand that neither Samuel nor David were God Almighty or equal to Him.There are so many servants of God who were bowed down to in the scriptures that it's hard to count them all – starting with Abraham.
And at least one of them (Samuel) was also called “elohim/theos”. So if you say,“If Jesus is called 'god' and people have bowed to him, then he must be THE God”, then you must also be willing to say, “If Samuel is called 'god' and people have bowed to him, then he must also be THE God”.
So many of your claims are based SOLEY on the “Exception for Jesus” reasoning. Apply the same exact words or circumstances to ANYONE ELSE at all, and you would NEVER claim those words meant that person actually WAS God Almighty. It is ONLY when those words are applied to Jesus, that all of a sudden, the Son OF God becomes the God he is the Son OF. And the anointed one OF God becomes the God who anointed him. And the servant OF God becomes the God he serves. And the Priest OF God becomes the God he intercedes with on our behalf. And the one God sent becomes the God who sent himself.
It's absolutely ludicrous, Keith. A person must be truly blinded to believe that ANY of the things I've just mentioned make even a lick of sense, or have even the smallest possibility of being true. They DON'T. It is nothing but comical hogwash. Even a five year old kid would roll their eyes and think you were an idiot if you tried to convince them of this stuff.
Come out of her, Keith.
peace,
mikeMike
I haven’t forgotten you little one. I like to go for the big fish first and then the little fish.
I am here to share with you the truth my friend, and I hope you have the ears to hear what the Spirit is saying because without the Spirit of Truth you cannot know “The Truth” (John 14:6). “Sola Scriptura’ is not enough. I thought you would have learned this by now! Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2011,21:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,09:34)
MikeSure I can because Jesus in nature was\is 100% God according to the Spirit and 100% man according to the flesh.
Son of man = man
Son of God = God
So why would 100% God speak of his own God being greater than him? In fact, why would 100% God even HAVE a God of his own?
Because the Father didn’t take on the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man. The Word that was with God and was God did. (John 1:1, 14 – Phil 2:4-6)First of all Jesus Spirit is the Spirit of God and equal to God. (Rom 8:9 – 2 Cor 13:5 -Phil 1:19)
Secondly, Jesus has a God because Jesus humbled himself and took on the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man which means that now Jesus is to fulfill every role and part of being a man without sin including accepting the Father as his God.
Once again none of that diminishes his nature as God according to his Spirit and man according to the flesh.
But even so your question is a fallacious one that assumes that one cannot be equal in nature as another and still be less that the other in other ways!
For instance to use your wording I can ask the question “Why would one who is 100% human speak of his own Father as greater than he? The answer to the question is of course the one who is 100% human is equal to his Father who is also 100% human except the Father is greater than he because his Father is the President of the USA.
Not only is Jesus in nature 100% God but in reality Jesus has all things and upholds all things and by him all things consist, so that makes Jesus 100% God in nature and position.
But to you and t8 he is neither “Fully Human” nor “Fully God” but some kind of demi-god that is less in nature and position than God. That is a lie against the scriptures.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2011,21:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,09:34)
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with “theos\god” and the Word was “theos\god”.
Not quite. In the beginning, the Word was A “theos/god” who was with THE “theos/god”. You don't have to add the indefinite article if you don't want to. But you DO have to acknowledge the definite article that sets “THE god” apart from “god”.
Trinitarians have no problem separating the person of the Father from Jesus but you have to prove that Johns use of the word “Theos” is meant to mean something different from God the Father in nature.The whole definite article bit is another one of those “Anti-Jesus is God Fallacies” since the scriptures clearly have many instances where the word “theos” is found without the definite article and yet context bears out it is the “One True God”.
Here is a good excerpt of this fact and hopefully you will read it with an open mind and then not continue making this fallacious argument about the lack of the article in reference to Jesus in John 1:1 as if it is some sort of proof that Jesus is not “Theos\God”.
John uses the word “Theos” some 252 times in his writings. Twenty-two of these times it occurs without a definite article. In every place outside of John 1:1 and John 1:18 where the singular form of the word is used (whether it is with or without the article), John uses it to reference the one true God. There are no exceptions, even in the New World Translation.Twenty times, the New World Translation translates “Theos” without the definite article as “God,” referencing the one true God. (Jn. 1:6, 12, 13, 18; 3:2, 21; 6:45; 8:54; 9:16, 33; 13:3; 16:30; 19:7; 20:17(2); 1 Jn. 3:2; 4:12; 2 Jn. 3, 9; Rev. 21:7). The only places it is not translated as “God” is in John 1:1 and John 1:18. Thus, overwhelming, in the Jehovah Witnesses' own translation, the word “Theos” without a definite article is believed to be a reference to the one true God. If “Theos” without the article is always translated as God by the New World Translators themselves (except for John 1:1, 18), then the argument that “Theos” should be translated as “a god” because it lacks a definite article fails.
Source
WJQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2011,21:28) Even the Trinitarian NETNotes admits that the Word was not “the PERSON OF GOD”, whatever that means. They agree that 1:1b, “the Word was WITH God” prohibits this Word from BEING the same God he was WITH.
Ha Ha MikeIs that supposed to add some validity to your argument? Of course the NET Notes do not believe the Father is the Son by stating they are two persons. But if you are going to quote a source then you should quote it in light of what they do believe and not in the light of your own failed doctrine.
The Net says concerning John 1:1 and the word “”Theos God” in reference to Jesus…
The translation “what God was the Word was” is perhaps the most nuanced rendering, conveying that everything God was in essence, the Word was too. This points to unity of essence between the Father and the Son without equating the persons. However, in surveying a number of native speakers of English, some of whom had formal theological training and some of whom did not, the editors concluded that the fine distinctions indicated by “what God was the Word was” would not be understood by many contemporary readers. Thus the translation “the Word was fully God” was chosen because it is more likely to convey the meaning to the average English reader that the Logos (which “became flesh and took up residence among us” in John 1:14 and is thereafter identified in the Fourth Gospel as Jesus) is one in essence with God the Father. The previous phrase, “the Word was with God,” shows that the Logos is distinct in person from God the Father NETAT Robertson states…
And the Word was God (kai qeo hn o logo). By exact and careful language John denied Sabellianism by not saying o qeo hn o logo. That would mean that all of God was expressed in o logo and the terms would be interchangeable, each having the article. The subject is made plain by the article (o logo) and the predicate without it (qeo) just as in John 4:24 pneuma o qeo can only mean “God is spirit,” not “spirit is God.” So in 1 John 4:16 o qeo agaph estin can only mean “God is love,” not “love is God” as a so-called Christian scientist would confusedly say. For the article with the predicate see Robertson, Grammar_, pp. 767f. So in John 1:14 o Logo sarx egeneto, “the Word became flesh,” not “the flesh became Word.” Luther argues that here John disposes of Arianism also because the Logos was eternally God, fellowship of Father and Son, what Origen called the Eternal Generation of the Son (each necessary to the other). Thus in the Trinity we see personal fellowship on an equality. ATR
But of course your doctrine which has its roots in Watch Tower, the sisters of Arian, the JW’s has denied the commentary of 100s of scholars. The JW’s are Polytheist who promote the belief in more than “one theos\god” when the scriptures clearly state there is “only one true theos\god”.Remember Mike it is your own words that said…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,18:35) Jesus is the god (changed to a god), or “powerful ruler” of all in heaven right now, and of the believer's on earth.
WJTO ALL…………..”FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD Notice the words Jesus used (thou) someone other then himself (art) existing as, the (ONLY) meaning no other, (TRUE) meaning real or genuine (GOD). how hard is that to understand ? Jesus is not now or ever was GOD , He is SON OF MAN, who was given the Spirit (intellect) or Logos of GOD and it was GOD the Father that was (IN) him through the LOGOS of GOD, that was GOD and IS GOD. Jesus was simply a SON OF MAN and will return as a SON of MAN. ” FOR WHEN THE SON Of MAN RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH” > It is not a GOD that is returning to Earth but the SON OF MAN, ” GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE NOR THAT HE SHOULD REPENT”> Jesus is a SON OF MAN mentioned 87 times in scripture. When are you people going to start to believe it ? Jesus is like us a Son of God by the existing of the Logos of God In Us. that is what is meant by the word or logos became or came to be (IN) flesh beings, it is in all of God's elect. ” THAT GOD MAY BE (IN) ALL AND THROUGH ALL . Trust me when i say (ALL) who (SEPARATE) Jesus from our Human Identity will give account for it sooner or later.
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2011,09:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2011,14:30) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,04:12) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2011,18:58) Ed wrote:Hi WJ,
Here is John's record of Jesus' account on equality…
My Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
How do you account for this non-equality?HI WJ,
Still waiting for your answer… … … … …
Hi EdSure, when you can tell me in what way was Jesus saying the Father was greater than he.
Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.
However currently Jesus now owns and possesses all things and has not yet “subjected Himself” or the Kingdom to the Father.
Jesus said all things were in his hands and all authority and power and judgment is now his.
All things are held together by his own hands.
So please explain in what way the Father is greater than Jesus.
WJ
Hi WJ,You flip the question around that I have asked you, WJ, and then ignore my response; why?
YHVH knows everything (because he is God in heaven above and in Earth below: Joshua 2:11),
while Jesus implied that he did not know everything, consider what Jesus said in Matt.24:34-36. <– Please address.Matt.24:34-36 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day
and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.Quote Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will.
Are you implying the Jesus is no longer (according to WJ) subject to his fathers will? <– PLEASE ANSWER.
EdI don't have the time to answer you in full but maybe tomorrow.
But your question is misleading for Jesus made the statement “The Father is greater than I” before the Father had given all things including all Power, authority, wisdom, and knowledge into his hands.that he shared when he was there with the Father in the beginning.
Also I gave you John 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:4-6 which states that Jesus emptied himself and took upon him the form of a servant and was found in fashion as a man.
Jesus who was rich in glory with the Father became poor for us and has now returned back to the Glory he shared with the Father in the beginning of all things and all things are in his power and in his hands.
Thats the short answer.
Gotta go, good night!
WJ
Hi WJ,I'm still waiting for your responses to BOTH my requests.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2011,09:40)
Trust me when i say (ALL) who (SEPARATE) Jesus from our Human Identity will give account for it sooner or later.
GeneTrust me, all those who seperate Jesus from his identity as God will give account sooner or later.
You cannot have the Father without Jesus and that makes him God or you have placed a created being before the Father and that would be idolatry. Trust me!
Thou shalt have “no other gods” (elohiym) before me. Exod 20:3
And…
“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4
And…
…and that “there is none other God (theos) but one”. 1 Cor 8:4
Your theology places another created being before YHWH the Father. You can’t say this is not true because you cannot have YHWH, the Father without Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2011,09:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2011,09:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 05 2011,14:30) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,04:12) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2011,18:58) Ed wrote:Hi WJ,
Here is John's record of Jesus' account on equality…
My Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
How do you account for this non-equality?HI WJ,
Still waiting for your answer… … … … …
Hi EdSure, when you can tell me in what way was Jesus saying the Father was greater than he.
Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will. John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:4-6.
However currently Jesus now owns and possesses all things and has not yet “subjected Himself” or the Kingdom to the Father.
Jesus said all things were in his hands and all authority and power and judgment is now his.
All things are held together by his own hands.
So please explain in what way the Father is greater than Jesus.
WJ
Hi WJ,You flip the question around that I have asked you, WJ, and then ignore my response; why?
YHVH knows everything (because he is God in heaven above and in Earth below: Joshua 2:11),
while Jesus implied that he did not know everything, consider what Jesus said in Matt.24:34-36. <– Please address.Matt.24:34-36 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day
and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.Quote Jesus spoke this when he was in the flesh when he willingly subjected himself to the Fathers will.
Are you implying the Jesus is no longer (according to WJ) subject to his fathers will? <– PLEASE ANSWER.
EdI don't have the time to answer you in full but maybe tomorrow.
But your question is misleading for Jesus made the statement “The Father is greater than I” before the Father had given all things including all Power, authority, wisdom, and knowledge into his hands.that he shared when he was there with the Father in the beginning.
Also I gave you John 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:4-6 which states that Jesus emptied himself and took upon him the form of a servant and was found in fashion as a man.
Jesus who was rich in glory with the Father became poor for us and has now returned back to the Glory he shared with the Father in the beginning of all things and all things are in his power and in his hands.
Thats the short answer.
Gotta go, good night!
WJ
Hi WJ,I'm still waiting for your responses to BOTH my requests.
EDI have answered the first question. As far as the second…
According to 1 Cor 15:28 Jesus has not yet subjected himself nor the Kingdom to the Father.
Jesus has all “Authority” and “Power” for the Father has committed all things into his hands including all judgment.
Therefore Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords of the universe and that means he is God for he is also the source of all things to all the creation for by him all things consist.
It is Jesus that gave us the promise that no man can pluck us out of “His Hand”, and that he will never leave us or forsake us, and to me that makes him my Lord and my God and my Savior.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
I am here to share with you the truth my friend, and I hope you have the ears to hear what the Spirit is saying because without the Spirit of Truth you cannot know “The Truth” (John 14:6). “Sola Scriptura’ is not enough. I thought you would have learned this by now!
Yes Keith, we are all well aware of the fact that you admit that the scriptures, in and of themselves, do NOT teach of a triune God, so you must PRETEND that some spirit is showing you something that contradicts the whole of the Bible.Am I the only one here who finds it amusing that by claiming some “spirit” must “show” us that Jesus is God Almighty, Keith is ADMITTING that the scriptures themselves don't actually teach this abomination?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
Because the Father didn’t take on the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man.
How does that answer my point? Either Jesus WAS 100% God on earth or he WASN'T because he took on flesh. Which is it?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
But even so your question is a fallacious one that assumes that one cannot be equal in nature as another and still be less that the other in other ways!
And what is God's “nature”? He is a Spirit Being, right? So yes, Jesus AND all the other angels are equal in “nature” to their Creator.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
For instance to use your wording I can ask the question “Why would one who is 100% human speak of his own Father as greater than he? The answer to the question is of course the one who is 100% human is equal to his Father who is also 100% human except the Father is greater than he because his Father is the President of the USA.
Excellent Keith! Now, put it into your head that ONLY the Father is the President! So while Jesus can be equally a spirit being, he will never be equally the “President” – just like in YOUR OWN scenario. YOU claim that in the case of Jesus, both the President AND His Son are equally “THE PRESIDENT”, when in actuality, they are merely both SPIRIT BEINGS, but not the SAME Being, therefore NOT both “The President”. Is the son in YOUR scenario the same BEING as his father, and therefore also “The President”? If not, then why would you just imagine this oddity when it comes to Jesus?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
Not only is Jesus in nature 100% God but in reality Jesus has all things and upholds all things and by him all things consist, so that makes Jesus 100% God in nature and position.
And this would equate to the ONE President taking a leave of absence and leaving his VICE PRESIDENT in charge for a while. While the Vice President will, for a time, have all of the authority that the President affords him, the V.P. never BECOMES the same being AS the President. So while his power may be EQUAL TO the President's power for a while, the very words “EQUAL TO THE PRESIDENT” exclude the V.P. from actually BEING the President he is “EQUAL TO”. And as is scripturally shown, eventually, the President will return to rule his own nation, while the V.P. steps down a notch and continues to fulfill his own role as V.P.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
The whole definite article bit is another one of those “Anti-Jesus is God Fallacies” since the scriptures clearly have many instances where the word “theos” is found without the definite article and yet context bears out it is the “One True God”.
Really Keith? So the BEING of the “One True God” was WITH the BEING of the “One True God” in the beginning? God is only ONE BEING, Keith. And ONE BEING cannot possibly be WITH itself.John surely knew what he was doing when preceded only ONE of the theos mentioned in 1:1 with the definite article.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
Here is a good excerpt of this fact and hopefully you will read it with an open mind………..
So what? All that proves is that out of the 252 times John used theos, 250 of them referred to the One True God. (Actually, 249 of them, for 20:28 does NOT refer to Jehovah. )In fact, look at what your own source says:
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
In every place outside of John 1:1 and John 1:18 where the singular form of the word is used, John uses it to reference the one true God.
Isn't your own source admitting that in 1:1 and 1:18, John is NOT referencing the Only True God? But then they say:Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2011,13:18)
Twenty times, the New World Translation translates “Theos” without the definite article as “God,” referencing the one true God. The only places it is not translated as “God” is in John 1:1 and John 1:18.
Isn't your source actually pointing out that the NWT translated correctly? Aren't they saying that the NWT used “god” in the only two scriptures that they themselves agreed were NOT referencing the Only True God?Hi WJ,
I appreciate your attempt to answer my questions!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2011,02:14) ED It is Jesus that gave us the promise that no man can pluck us out of “His Hand”, and that he will never leave us or forsake us, and to me that makes him my Lord and my God and my Savior.
WJ
Was it not Jesus who also said…John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.1) Would you consider Jesus here to be part of “ALL”? … and …
2) Would they still be in God The Father's hand after he gave them?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2011,09:40) TO ALL…………..”FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD Notice the words Jesus used (thou) someone other then himself (art) existing as, the (ONLY) meaning no other, (TRUE) meaning real or genuine (GOD). how hard is that to understand ? Jesus is not now or ever was GOD , He is SON OF MAN, who was given the Spirit (intellect) or Logos of GOD and it was GOD the Father that was (IN) him through the LOGOS of GOD, that was GOD and IS GOD. Jesus was simply a SON OF MAN and will return as a SON of MAN. ” FOR WHEN THE SON Of MAN RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH” > It is not a GOD that is returning to Earth but the SON OF MAN, ” GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE NOR THAT HE SHOULD REPENT”> Jesus is a SON OF MAN mentioned 87 times in scripture. When are you people going to start to believe it ? Jesus is like us a Son of God by the existing of the Logos of God In Us. that is what is meant by the word or logos became or came to be (IN) flesh beings, it is in all of God's elect. ” THAT GOD MAY BE (IN) ALL AND THROUGH ALL . Trust me when i say (ALL) who (SEPARATE) Jesus from our Human Identity will give account for it sooner or later. peace and love………………………………………..gene
GeneBut you are not considering the spiritual nature of Jesus.
He is also “The Only Begotten Son” you should go and learn what that means.
Jesus will also return as the “Only Begoptten Son” and judge the earth as God since all things are in his hands including all judgment.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2011,11:25) Gene But you are not considering the spiritual nature of Jesus.
But how can you assume that because Jesus has a spiritual nature like his God, he IS that God? You surely don't consider all the other spirit beings God created to BE God, do you?Why the exception for Jesus?
I will tell you why.
Because he was taught the Trinity Doctrine early on, and he refuses to accept that it could be wrong because that would be admitting he was wrong.
I believed in that doctrine once and have no problem admitting I was wrong. What about it WJ?
Just be honest and admit that it is not taught. All it takes is honesty mixed with humility.T8………..Now all you and Mike have to do is admit Jesus was not a preexisting Sentinel being, and a whole new world will open unto you both and that may take some honesty and humility also brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2011,04:25) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2011,09:40) TO ALL…………..”FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD Notice the words Jesus used (thou) someone other then himself (art) existing as, the (ONLY) meaning no other, (TRUE) meaning real or genuine (GOD). how hard is that to understand ? Jesus is not now or ever was GOD , He is SON OF MAN, who was given the Spirit (intellect) or Logos of GOD and it was GOD the Father that was (IN) him through the LOGOS of GOD, that was GOD and IS GOD. Jesus was simply a SON OF MAN and will return as a SON of MAN. ” FOR WHEN THE SON Of MAN RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH” > It is not a GOD that is returning to Earth but the SON OF MAN, ” GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE NOR THAT HE SHOULD REPENT”> Jesus is a SON OF MAN mentioned 87 times in scripture. When are you people going to start to believe it ? Jesus is like us a Son of God by the existing of the Logos of God In Us. that is what is meant by the word or logos became or came to be (IN) flesh beings, it is in all of God's elect. ” THAT GOD MAY BE (IN) ALL AND THROUGH ALL . Trust me when i say (ALL) who (SEPARATE) Jesus from our Human Identity will give account for it sooner or later. peace and love………………………………………..gene
GeneBut you are not considering the spiritual nature of Jesus.
He is also “The Only Begotten Son” you should go and learn what that means.
Jesus will also return as the “Only Begoptten Son” and judge the earth as God since all things are in his hands including all judgment.
WJ
WJ……….The same spiritual nature is in all who have the LOGOS in them just as Paladin and Marty and I have said. That GOD Nature can be (IN) ALL and work Through ALL, then Jesus and God the father will be in you and your (IN) them via that Spirit which is the Nature of God and Can your New Nature also brother.WJ…..It was not Jesus who said “DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS (I) shall raise (IT) up. WJ that was GOD first person speaking through Jesus' mouth. WJ if you separate Jesus' exact Physical Identity with Us you are separating GOD'S Work (IN) Him. And as a result distorts God work in HUMANITY.
Think about it brother.
peace and love to you and yours WJ……………gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
