Binity

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So when God announced His Son at the jordan He was not being entirely accurate?

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,17:21)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi Kathi Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous? What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a beginning before the incarnation. The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation. Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he came in the flesh and you know it! In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father. “THE WORD WAS GOD”! Blessings Keith

Keith,
You are sure set off easily!

You said:

Quote

The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he?

But he was a son, wasn't he? Sonship is not an office!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,09:45)

Hi TT, So when God announced His Son at the jordan He was not being entirely accurate?

When God said that we are sons he was not being accurate? Distinguish the difference being declared a son and actually being adopted as a son. distinguish between being declared the Son of God and actually being begotten as the Son of God.

Jesus was called “the Christ” throughout His entire life. But He was not installed as the Christ until He finished His work of redemption and was exalted.

Your view of Christ's Sonship implies that it was not necessary for Him to fulfill prophecy. All of Christ's names reflect the work He was to do.

He was called “Jesus” because He would save His people from their sins. His names cannot be separated from His COMPLETING His work.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,17:58)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,17:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi Kathi Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous? What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a b eginning before the incarnation. The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation. Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he came in the flesh and you know it! In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father. “THE WORD WAS GOD”! Blessings Keith Keith, You are sure set off easily! You said: Quote The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? But he was a son, wasn't he?  Sonship is not an office!

Kathi

How about if I tell you you are being stuborn because you do not agree with my interpretation of scriptures!

If you are thoroughly convinced in your mind that what you believe is the truth, then it wouldn't set to good with you would it?

There was no need for the jab Kathi, especially when you do not know anything about my personal relationship with my Lord and whether my heart is hard or not.

Yes he is a Son. But he was not born a Son and then born a Son again, for the scriptures declared Jesus to be the Son of God after the incarnation and not before!

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 24 2010,10:01)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,09:45) Hi TT, So when God announced His Son at the jordan He was not being entirely accurate? When God said that we are sons he was not being accurate? Distinguish the difference being declared a son and actually being adopted as a son. distinguish between being declared the Son of God and actually being begotten as the Son of God. Jesus was called “the Christ” throughout His entire life. But He was not installed as the Christ until He finished His work of redemption and was exalted. Your view of Christ's Sonship implies that it was not necessary for Him to fulfill prophecy. All of Christ's names reflect the work He was to do. He was called “Jesus” because He would save His people from their sins. His names cannot be separated from His COMPLETING His work. thinker

HiTT,
He was the Christ on earth and said so and it was BY THIS ANOINTING of the SPIRIT OF GOD that he healed men and offered them salvation.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,17:12)

Hi LU, Jesus was not a part of God before he was born.

Nick,
He wasn't a literal arm. The Jews concept of God included His outstretched arm and lo and behold, we are told that the outstretched arm is the Son of God. It turns out that they were worshiping the Father and the Son without realizing it. Many of them still don't realize it. You don't realize it.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jesus told the Jews about God and never said he was always a part of God.
He died on the cross and only lives by God's Spirit so did his 'personal' divinity die then too?

[KangarooJack]

Kathi said:

Quote

Sonship is not an office!

David was anointed and then appointed as firstborn son (king, Psalm 89:20,27). Jesus was anointed as son. The Jews were called “sons of God” because they were rulers and administrators of the covenant (John 10).

Your assertion that sonship is not an office has no basis in fact.

thinker

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,18:06)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,17:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,17:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi Kathi Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous? What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a beginning before the incarnation. The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation. Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he came in the flesh and you know it! In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father. “THE WORD WAS GOD”! Blessings Keith Keith, You are sure set off easily! You said: Quote The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? But he was a son, wasn't he?  Sonship is not an office! Kathi How about if I tell you you are being stuborn because you do you do not agree with my interpretation of scriptures! If you are thoroughly convinced in your mind that what you believe is the truth, then it wouldn't set to good with you would it? There was no need for the jab Kathi, especially when you do not know anything about my personal relationship with my Lord and whether my heart is hard or not. Yes he is a Son. But he was not born a Son and then born a Son again, for the scriptures declared Jesus to be the Son of God after the incarnation and not before! Blessings WJ

Keith,
I am sorry that you took that comment so personally. It was meant as a general comment. You have felt that way before, haven't you? I mean, when you think a scripture is very clearly saying something, someone else will claim it is “ambiguous.” If you want to call me stubborn, well, I do believe you have implied worse towards me and I have gotten to where it rolls off my shoulders or I wouldn't last long here. There have been several times that you have reacted so hurt, so easily that I wonder about you. I think that you are a very sensitive man and that can be good but I don't think that you handle things as sensitively towards others as you want to be handled. I just think you fly off the handle way too easily and take general statements too personally.

I think you are a generally nice man and you love the Lord. I'm sorry I upset you.

God bless,
Kathi

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,10:10)

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 24 2010,10:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,09:45) Hi TT, So when God announced His Son at the jordan He was not being entirely accurate? When God said that we are sons he was not being accurate? Distinguish the difference being declared a son and actually being adopted as a son. distinguish between being declared the Son of God and actually being begotten as the Son of God. Jesus was called “the Christ” throughout His entire life. But He was not installed as the Christ until He finished His work of redemption and was exalted. Your view of Christ's Sonship implies that it was not necessary for Him to fulfill prophecy. All of Christ's names reflect the work He was to do. He was called “Jesus” because He would save His people from their sins. His names cannot be separated from His COMPLETING His work. thinker HiTT, He was the Christ on earth and said so and it was BY THIS ANOINTING of the SPIRIT OF GOD that he healed men and offered them salvation.

But he still had to complete His work. Peter said that He was “made both Lord and Christ AT HIS EXALTATION.

If He did not finish His work, then His name was no good.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Quotes please

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,10:26)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,18:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,17:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,17:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EY ES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi Kathi Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous? What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a beginning before the incarnation. The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation. Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he came in the flesh and you know it! In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father. “THE WORD WAS GOD”! Blessings Keith Keith, You are sure set off easily! You said: Quote The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? But he was a son, wasn't he?  Sonship is not an office! Kathi How about if I tell you you are being stuborn because you do you do not agree with my interpretation of scriptures! If you are thoroughly convinced in your mind that what you believe is the truth, then it wouldn't set to good with you would it? There was no need for the jab Kathi, especially when you do not know anything about my personal relationship with my Lord and whether my heart is hard or not. Yes he is a Son. But he was not born a Son and then born a Son again, for the scriptures declared Jesus to be the Son of God after the incarnation and not before! Blessings WJ Keith, I am sorry that you took that comment so personally.  It was meant as a general comment.  You have felt that way before, haven't you?  I mean, when you think a scripture is very clearly saying something, someone else will claim it is “ambiguous.”  If you want to call me stubborn, well, I do believe you have implied worse towards me and I have gotten to where it rolls off my shoulders or I wouldn't last long here.  There have been several times that you have reacted so hurt, so easily that I wonder about you.  I think that you are a very sensitive man and that can be good but I don't think that you handle things as sensitively towards others as you want to be handled.  I just think you fly off the handle way too easily and take general statements too personally. I think you are a generally nice man and you love the Lord.  I'm sorry I upset you. God bless, Kathi

Kathi,

That was the poorest excuse of an apology I have seen in a while. You give a list of Keith's so called faults and then say, “I am sorry I upset you” when you really mean, “I am sorry you are so touchy and so easily upset.”

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,10:29)

Hi TT, Quotes please

Acts 2:34-37 (New King James Version)
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:

     ‘ The LORD said to my Lord,

     “ Sit at My right hand,
      35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Jesus was made both Lord and Christ AT HIS EXALTATION. Although He was the Christ before this it had meaning only if He completed His work. It was upon the completion of His work that He was made “the Christ.”

The same is true of His name as Son. It had meaning only if He finished the work He had to do. Upon finishing that work He was exalted and “begotten” as Son

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,18:26)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,18:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,17:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,17:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EY ES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi Kathi Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous? What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a beginning before the incarnation. The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation. Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he came in the flesh and you know it! In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father. “THE WORD WAS GOD”! Blessings Keith Keith, You are sure set off easily! You said: Quote The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? But he was a son, wasn't he?  Sonship is not an office! Kathi How about if I tell you you are being stuborn because you do you do not agree with my interpretation of scriptures! If you are thoroughly convinced in your mind that what you believe is the truth, then it wouldn't set to good with you would it? There was no need for the jab Kathi, especially when you do not know anything about my personal relationship with my Lord and whether my heart is hard or not. Yes he is a Son. But he was not born a Son and then born a Son again, for the scriptures declared Jesus to be the Son of God after the incarnation and not before! Blessings WJ Keith, I am sorry that you took that comment so personally.  It was meant as a general comment.  You have felt that way before, haven't you?  I mean, when you think a scripture is very clearly saying something, someone else will claim it is “ambiguous.”  If you want to call me stubborn, well, I do believe you have implied worse towards me and I have gotten to where it rolls off my shoulders or I wouldn't last long here.  There have been several times that you have reacted so hurt, so easily that I wonder about you.  I think that you are a very sensitive man and that can be good but I don't think that you handle things as sensitively towards others as you want to be handled.  I just think you fly off the handle way too easily and take general statements too personally. I think you are a generally nice man and you love the Lord.  I'm sorry I upset you. God bless, Kathi

Kathi

Thanks for your patronizing oppology!

But being firm or even getting angry is not sin.

Usually my response if it is stern is toward those that shoot judging statements at me.

I don't care what you think of me, and I will refrain my tongue of what I think of you!

I accept your oppology though I question that it is sincere because I think you see nothing wrong with your Jab or your judgment of me!

Keith

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 24 2010,10:43)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,10:29) Hi TT, Quotes please Acts 2:34-37 (New King James Version) 34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:      ‘ The LORD said to my Lord,      “ Sit at My right hand,       35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’ 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Jesus was made both Lord and Christ AT HIS EXALTATION. Although He was the Christ before this it had meaning only if He completed His work. It was upon the completion of His work that He was made “the Christ.” The same is true of His name as Son. It had meaning only if He finished the work He had to do. Upon finishing that work He was exalted and “begotten” as Son thinker

Hi TT,
Try Acts 10 38 and you may see that his ANOINTING as Christ led to his works among men.

Without that ANOINTING he was as an ordinary but pious and knowledgeable man.

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,18:47)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,18:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,18:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,17:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,17:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfil l the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi Kathi Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous? What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a beginning before the incarnation. The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation. Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he came in the flesh and you know it! In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father. “THE WORD WAS GOD”! Blessings Keith Keith, You are sure set off easily! You said: Quote The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he? But he was a son, wasn't he?  Sonship is not an office! Kathi How about if I tell you you are being stuborn because you do you do not agree with my interpretation of scriptures! If you are thoroughly convinced in your mind that what you believe is the truth, then it wouldn't set to good with you would it? There was no need for the jab Kathi, especially when you do not know anything about my personal relationship with my Lord and whether my heart is hard or not. Yes he is a Son. But he was not born a Son and then born a Son again, for the scriptures declared Jesus to be the Son of God after the incarnation and not before! Blessings WJ Keith, I am sorry that you took that comment so personally.  It was meant as a general comment.  You have felt that way before, haven't you?  I mean, when you think a scripture is very clearly saying something, someone else will claim it is “ambiguous.”  If you want to call me stubborn, well, I do believe you have implied worse towards me and I have gotten to where it rolls off my shoulders or I wouldn't last long here.  There have been several times that you have reacted so hurt, so easily that I wonder about you.  I think that you are a very sensitive man and that can be good but I don't think that you handle things as sensitively towards others as you want to be handled.  I just think you fly off the handle way too easily and take general statements too personally. I think you are a generally nice man and you love the Lord.  I'm sorry I upset you. God bless, Kathi Kathi Thanks for your patronizing oppology! But being firm or even getting angry is not sin. Usually my response if it is stern is toward those that shoot judging statements at me. I don't care what you think of me, and I will refrain my tongue of what I think of you! I accept your oppology though I question that it is sincere because I think you see nothing wrong with your Jab or your judgment of me! Keith

Wow! That is all I can say is wow. Maybe I expect too much sometimes from pastors.

[princess of the king]

WJ, a pastor, when did this happen? Really a pastor.

Lightenup, you do have a very good point, maybe refer him back to his public apology to the forum, he might need reminded, since he travels through space and time to another dimension now and again, he may need a refresher course.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,21:14)

Wow!  That is all I can say is wow.  Maybe I expect too much sometimes from pastors.

Please!

Maybe I expect to much from parishioners!

Get off of your high horse dear!

I have not sinned. The accusations started with you! Read the post at your judgmental heart toward me simply because you don't like my tone!

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The hypocrosy from others is amazing!

WJ

[terraricca]

all

2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,11:04)

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 24 2010,10:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,10:29) Hi TT, Quotes please Acts 2:34-37 (New King James Version) 34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:      ‘ The LORD said to my Lord,      “ Sit at My right hand,       35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’ 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Jesus was made both Lord and Christ AT HIS EXALTATION. Although He was the Christ before this it had meaning only if He completed His work. It was upon the completion of His work that He was made “the Christ.” The same is true of His name as Son. It had meaning only if He finished the work He had to do. Upon finishing that work He was exalted and “begotten” as Son thinker Hi TT, Try Acts 10 38 and you may see that his ANOINTING as Christ led to his works among men. Without that ANOINTING he was as an ordinary but pious and knowledgeable man.

Nick,

I have no problem with your statement above as far as it goes. Jesus was indeed anointed the Christ and the Son before His exaltation. But He was not installed to both offices until His exaltation when He completed His work and fulfilled the scriptures.

thinker

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