Binity

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:14)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2010,22:09) Hi LU, So one God is really two and you need to worship both? Nick, Yes, one Most High God and one only begotten God.  Together they are: the God with the outstretched arm one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ our God and Eternal life. Jesus is the resurrection and the life. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Do you worship because you “need” to worship?  Is that really heartfelt worship?  Some worship the Father and the Son gladly and willingly.

Hi LU,
So you worship the God of the Jews and all who are one with Him?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:07)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2010,22:09) Hi LU, So one God is really two and you need to worship both? Nick, Yes, one Most High God and one only begotten God.  Together they are: the God with the outstretched arm one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ our God and Eternal life. Jesus is the resurrection and the life. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Do you worship because you “need” to worship?  Is that really heartfelt worship?  Some worship the Father and the Son gladly and willingly. Hi LU, So you worship the God of the Jews and all who are one with Him?

Nick,
I worship the Father and the Son which make up the God of the Jews whom they knew as God with an outstretched arm.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jesus was never the God of the Jews.
He said the Father was.[Jn8.54]
But you do not believe him?

Whom do you follow?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39)

Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow?

Nick,
Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son). The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm.

2 Kings 17:36
36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice.

The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT. His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
NASU

This should clear a lot of things up. Here are some verses to ponder:

Quote

Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU

Quote

Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.

Hi LU

I have a question for you!

If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm?

Blessings! WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ

Hi Keith,
The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God. God did not always have a Son.

Blessings,
Kathi

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,05:39)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.

Hi LU,
No he identified the God of the jews as his Father.
Jn8.54
You do not believe him?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi

Kathi

Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God!

Blessings WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,14:27)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,05:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU, No he identified the God of the jews as his Father. Jn8.54 You do not believe him?

Nick,
God identified Himself as the God with the outstretched arm to the Jews. The Jews worshiped the God with the outstretched arm and spoke of Him as “there is no God, but one.”

In the book of Isaiah, Isaiah saw that the outstretched arm was the Messiah.

The Messiah in the NT speaks of the Father as the one true God.

The spirit through the writings of Paul puts it together as:

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
NASU

Therefore, the one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ equals the one God with the outstretched arm that the Jews worshiped.

It is really quite simple.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,06:03)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi

It is true that God did not always have a son. But the eternal Word was always with Him. God was never alone at any time.

He had several “firstborn” sons:

“Israel is my son, even my firstborn” (Exodus 4:22).

David was God's firstborn son (Psalm 89:20-27)

Jesus was God's “only” Son in the new covenant age. He was “begotten” at His exaltation (Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5-6).

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
God proclaimed him as His son at the Jordan.
We should believe Him.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2010,07:54)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,
So our God is the Father.
thank you.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,08:11)

Hi TT, God proclaimed him as His son at the Jordan. We should believe Him.

Nick,
God proclaimed us his adopted sons though we are not adopted yet. Proclaiming and being adopted are two different things. So proclaiming and being begotten are two different things.

thinker

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ

Keith,
The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God.

Quote

53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU

That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth:

Quote

Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU

The “hand” is the Son:

Quote

Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU

Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith. Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart?

Quote

John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU

Kathi

[KangarooJack]

Kathi said:

Quote

The “hand” is the Son:

“Hand” signifies “power.” It is the “power” of the Son which is meant in Hebrews 1:10.

thinker

[Lightenup]

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 23 2010,16:45)

Kathi said: Quote The “hand” is the Son: “Hand” signifies “power.” It is the “power” of the Son which is meant in Hebrews 1:10. thinker

Certainly the hand was the Son's but the power was God's.

Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,
18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The Lord of hosts is His name;
19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jesus was not a part of God before he was born.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,08:57)

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 23 2010,16:45) Kathi said: Quote The “hand” is the Son: “Hand” signifies “power.” It is the “power” of the Son which is meant in Hebrews 1:10. thinker Certainly the hand was the Son's but the power was God's. Jer 32:17-22 17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You, 18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The Lord of hosts is His name; 19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;

Naah! The “hand” IS the power! The Creator of Jeremiah 32 is Jesus. The Father applies Psalm 102:25-27 to Jesus:

But to the Son He says….”You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.”

Seeing that the Father Himself applies the “You Lord (YHWH) of Psalm 102 to Jesus, then every single statement in the old testament would apply to Jesus. therefore, the following from Jeremiah 32 applies to Jesus:

17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,
18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The Lord of hosts is His name;
19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;

The Father's application of the name “YHWH” and the creation to the Son gives us our interpretive key. It means that EVERY time you see an old testament statement which says that the LORD God created it is indeed Jesus.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,16:35)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,15:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2010,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2010,13:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,01:39) Hi LU, Jesus was never the God of the Jews. He said the Father was.[Jn8.54] But you do not believe him? Whom do you follow? Nick, Jesus was not the God of the Jews all by Himself. He, as the Son, was with His Father as the God (Father) with the outstretched arm (Son).  The God of the Jews was the God who had an outstretched arm. 2 Kings 17:36 36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice. The Jews thought of God as one being but as God revealed His outstretched arm to be His own Son, we realize that the God of the OT was the Father and the Son who make up the God of the OT and NT.  His arm is now called the Lord, Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, (God's outstretched arm) by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU This should clear a lot of things up.  Here are some verses to ponder: Quote Ps 98:1-2 98 O sing to the Lord a new song, For He has done wonderful things, His right hand and His holy arm have gained the victory for Him. 2 The Lord has made known His salvation; He has revealed His righteousness in the sight of the nations. NASU Quote Isa 40:10-12 10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. 11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Hi LU I have a question for you! If Jesus is only the “Arm of God” then was there ever a time “God” the Father did not have an arm? Blessings! WJ Hi Keith, The outstretched arm of God is figurative for the Son of God.  God did not always have a Son. Blessings, Kathi Kathi Of course the Father did not always have a Son, there is no unambiguous scripture that says Jesus was born before the incarnation and when he was declared to be the Son of God! Blessings WJ Keith, The “outstretched arm of the Lord” does not become the Son of God, the “outstretched arm of the Lord” is revealed as the Son of God. Quote 53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. NASU That “hand” of God was there to spread out the heavens and found the earth: Quote Isa 48:13 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. NASU The “hand” is the Son: Quote Heb 1:8-10 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. 9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; NASU Sorry if you think this is ambiguous Keith.  Don't you think that seeing things as ambiguous could be merely a hardened heart? Quote John 12:38-40 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” NASU Kathi

Kathi

Get real Kathi. Why do you act like I would think those scriptures are not unambiguous?

What are you talking about? None of those scriptures give any sign of Jesus having a beginning before the incarnation.

The President of the USA went to school as a boy. But he was not the president then was he?

Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation.

Get over it sister, and stop with your patronizing and accusations as if you have the truth and I am being stubborn! There is no scripture that unambiguously says the Son was born before he cam
e in the flesh and you know it!

In fact John 1:1c lends to the fact that he is eternal just like the Father.

“THE WORD WAS GOD”!

Blessings Keith

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said to Kathi:

Quote

Jesus the Son of God laid the foundation of the earth but he was not declared to be a Son until after the incarnation.

Keith,

At His birth the angel said that he “SHALL BE” called the Son of God. The first time He was actually called the Son of God was when He was anointed by the Spirit at the Jordan. So His actually being called the Son of God later than the incarnation. He was officially “begotten” as the Son of God (King) at His exaltation.

thinker

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