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The claim that the Bible is a complete guide to truth creates an insurmountable problem for the person believing in Sola Scriptura. This is owing to the fact that it (the Bible) expressly declares that it is not complete.
All that is in the Bible is true, but not all that is true is to be found written in the Bible.
Christ commanded his apostles to teach mankind “all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matt. 28:20). Yet St. John concludes his Gospel by saying, “There are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written” (John 21:25).
One who declares that the Bible by itself is a complete guide is therefore professing a doctrine not only NOT contained in the Bible, but one at variance with it.
Hi CA,
The claim that your denomination holds hidden truths of God not found in scripture only makes it gnostic.ca
THE BIBLE IS COMPLETE IN REGARD OF WHAT WE NEED TO BE SAVED.NOW THE SCRIPTURES BY THEM SELVE ARE JUST WORDS ,LETTERS,DOCUMENTS,PAPERS,HISTORY,NOTES,STORY'S,RECCORDS,ECT.
BUT THAT S NOT ALL THERE IS MORE,BUT TO KNOW AND RECIEVE THE TRUE UNDERSTANDING THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS ,AND UNLESS YOU HAVE THOSE REQUIREMNTS YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD
BUT ONLY WHAT THE PAPER SAYS JUST WORDS, YOU MIS THE LIVING WORDS.SO YOU CAN GO AND STUDY ALL YOUR LIVE AND COME TO NOTHING AS OF GOD.
Posted: Feb. 19 2010,08:21
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The claim that the Bible is a complete guide to truth creates an insurmountable problem for the person believing in Sola Scriptura. This is owing to the fact that it (the Bible) expressly declares that it is not complete.All that is in the Bible is true, but not all that is true is to be found written in the Bible.
Christ commanded his apostles to teach mankind “all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matt. 28:20). Yet St. John concludes his Gospel by saying, “There are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written” (John 21:25).
One who declares that the Bible by itself is a complete guide is therefore professing a doctrine not only NOT contained in the Bible, but one at variance with it.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,09:32) ca THE BIBLE IS COMPLETE IN REGARD OF WHAT WE NEED TO BE SAVED.NOW THE SCRIPTURES BY THEM SELVE ARE JUST WORDS ,LETTERS,DOCUMENTS,PAPERS,HISTORY,NOTES,STORY'S,RECCORDS,ECT.
BUT THAT S NOT ALL THERE IS MORE,BUT TO KNOW AND RECIEVE THE TRUE UNDERSTANDING THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS ,AND UNLESS YOU HAVE THOSE REQUIREMNTS YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD
BUT ONLY WHAT THE PAPER SAYS JUST WORDS, YOU MIS THE LIVING WORDS.SO YOU CAN GO AND STUDY ALL YOUR LIVE AND COME TO NOTHING AS OF GOD.
You claim that we simply need to refer to Scripture for our salvation.We can agree, but when two people disagree on the interpretation of Scripture, who shall be the judge as to the correct interpretation?
Disagreements arise in nearly every verse of Scripture of which could easily lead one of the parties to damnation. It is illogical to think that Our Lord would expect us all to interpret Scripture on our own with no judge to turn to since this will always lead to endless disagreements. There can be countless wrong answers to a question, but only one right answer. All of those interpreting Scripture incorrectly will be lead down the wrong road. It is illogical for us to think God left us in anarchy with respect to interpretation of Scripture, at the mercy of the winds and the tide, with no pilot to help steer the way, as this would mean he wishes our destruction. As with a ship at sea, if everyone attempts to steer in the direction they think is right, we will inevitably wind up lost.
CA
I AGREE WITH THAT, WE CAN EASY PROVE IT WITH THIS SITE,
BUT LIKE I SAY THE SCRIPTURES TELLS WHAT THE CONDITION ARE REQUIRED TO BE SAVED AND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIVING WORD.TWO PEOPLE HAVING THE SAME ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL HEARTED IN TRUTH
TO THE GLORY OF GOD ,WILL RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER ,WITHOUT CONFRONTATION,THERE WILL BE NO CONFLICT BUT SHARING UNDERSTANDING.Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,10:19) CA
I AGREE WITH THAT, WE CAN EASY PROVE IT WITH THIS SITE,
BUT LIKE I SAY THE SCRIPTURES TELLS WHAT THE CONDITION ARE REQUIRED TO BE SAVED AND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIVING WORD.TWO PEOPLE HAVING THE SAME ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL HEARTED IN TRUTH
TO THE GLORY OF GOD ,WILL RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER ,WITHOUT CONFRONTATION,THERE WILL BE NO CONFLICT BUT SHARING UNDERSTANDING.
But unfortunately many reading the same Bible dispute “how to be saved.”Some say just believe (have faith)
Some say repent + believe
Some say be baptized in water + repent + believe
Some say be baptized in the Holy Spirit + baptized in water + repent + believe
And each guy is as serious as a heart attack, loves God and wants to please God and be saved
But only ONE of them can be right.
The Bible Alone fails them…
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 18 2010,18:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,10:19) CA
I AGREE WITH THAT, WE CAN EASY PROVE IT WITH THIS SITE,
BUT LIKE I SAY THE SCRIPTURES TELLS WHAT THE CONDITION ARE REQUIRED TO BE SAVED AND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIVING WORD.TWO PEOPLE HAVING THE SAME ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL HEARTED IN TRUTH
TO THE GLORY OF GOD ,WILL RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER ,WITHOUT CONFRONTATION,THERE WILL BE NO CONFLICT BUT SHARING UNDERSTANDING.
But unfortunately many reading the same Bible dispute “how to be saved.”Some say just believe (have faith)
Some say repent + believe
Some say be baptized in water + repent + believe
Some say be baptized in the Holy Spirit + baptized in water + repent + believe
And each guy is as serious as a heart attack, loves God and wants to please God and be saved
But only ONE of them can be right.
The Bible Alone fails them…
CADoes the Spirit of Truth which guides us into all truth have any part in this?
Why is it that you never speak of the Holy Spirit that is given to those who repent and believe in Jesus to lead them and guide them into all truth?
Is the RCC getting converts by the Holy Spirit leading men into the RCC by telling them that the RCC is “The True Church” and that only through them they can be saved?
Or do you believe that the Holy Spirit cannot save outside of the RCC?
Please, I asked this once and you didn't answer!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,10:33) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 18 2010,18:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,10:19) CA
I AGREE WITH THAT, WE CAN EASY PROVE IT WITH THIS SITE,
BUT LIKE I SAY THE SCRIPTURES TELLS WHAT THE CONDITION ARE REQUIRED TO BE SAVED AND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIVING WORD.TWO PEOPLE HAVING THE SAME ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL HEARTED IN TRUTH
TO THE GLORY OF GOD ,WILL RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER ,WITHOUT CONFRONTATION,THERE WILL BE NO CONFLICT BUT SHARING UNDERSTANDING.
But unfortunately many reading the same Bible dispute “how to be saved.”Some say just believe (have faith)
Some say repent + believe
Some say be baptized in water + repent + believe
Some say be baptized in the Holy Spirit + baptized in water + repent + believe
And each guy is as serious as a heart attack, loves God and wants to please God and be saved
But only ONE of them can be right.
The Bible Alone fails them…
CADoes the Spirit of Truth which guides us into all truth have any part in this?
Why is it that you never speak of the Holy Spirit that is given to those who repent and believe in Jesus to lead them and guide them into all truth?
Is the RCC getting converts by the Holy Spirit leading men into the RCC by telling them that the RCC is “The True Church” and that only through them they can be saved?
Or do you believe that the Holy Spirit cannot save outside of the RCC?
Please, I asked this once and you didn't answer!
WJ
Here is your answer:I cannot judge who individually is saved at the end of their life since I do not know whether God granted them true repentance or not.
Having said that, we can be confident that Jesus only has ONE body. No one is saved who is outside of that body. There is no salvation outside the Church. If anyone receives grace in spite of their complete ignorance, they receive it THROUGH the ministry of the Church. God is not bound by His sacraments. But we cannot presume to tempt or test God by relying on extraordinary grace. The Holy Spirit leads men INTO the Church as He did me. He leads men into all truth. The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)
It is dangerous for you to hear the truth and reject it. You should not presume on grace given because of your personal ignorance as though this were something normative.
It is not OK with God for you to be Protestant. He wants you to be Catholic.
Hi CA<
Will Jesus find faith on earth at his return?
Will he take a pew in the vatican and sing the praises of the mass murderers?The man who declares that he accepts only the Bible as his authority in religious matters does not really mean it. For he really believes in what he himself thinks any given passage of the Bible to mean, which might not be what the Bible means at all. For such a person, the only ultimate authority in religious matters is not that of the Bible, but that of his own judgment concerning it, and he has no assurance that his own judgment is any more reliable than that of others whose interpretation differs from his and who honestly believe his interpretation to be quite mistaken.
I mention this here merely to bring out the fact that the Catholic position is not affected by such difficulties. For it holds that Christ never intended the Bible alone to be each man's “guide book” to religious truth. His method was to establish a Church authorized by him to teach mankind in his name. He chose his apostles, trained them, and commissioned them to go and to teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, “teaching them all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matt. 28:20). He did not tell them to write any books. No books of the New Testament were written until years after his death.
But the first Christians were not without guidance. The Acts of the Apostles tells us that they “were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles” (Acts 2:42). Christ, therefore, meant the official teaching of the apostles and of their successors in the Church to be our guide, not the written Bible which is so liable to misinterpretation by its various individual readers, however sincere they may be. The Bible, as the very Word of God, is true in itself, but not all the conclusions people choose to draw from it are necessarily right.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 19 2010,10:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,10:33) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 18 2010,18:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,10:19) CA
I AGREE WITH THAT, WE CAN EASY PROVE IT WITH THIS SITE,
BUT LIKE I SAY THE SCRIPTURES TELLS WHAT THE CONDITION ARE REQUIRED TO BE SAVED AND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIVING WORD.TWO PEOPLE HAVING THE SAME ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL HEARTED IN TRUTH
TO THE GLORY OF GOD ,WILL RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER ,WITHOUT CONFRONTATION,THERE WILL BE NO CONFLICT BUT SHARING UNDERSTANDING.
But unfortunately many reading the same Bible dispute “how to be saved.”Some say just believe (have faith)
Some say repent + believe
Some say be baptized in water + repent + believe
Some say be baptized in the Holy Spirit + baptized in water + repent + believe
And each guy is as serious as a heart attack, loves God and wants to please God and be saved
But only ONE of them can be right.
The Bible Alone fails them…
CADoes the Spirit of Truth which guides us into all truth have any part in this?
Why is it that you never speak of the Holy Spirit that is given to those who repent and believe in Jesus to lead them and guide them into all truth?
Is the RCC getting converts by the Holy Spirit leading men into the RCC by telling them that the RCC is “The True Church” and that only through them they can be saved?
Or do you believe that the Holy Spirit cannot save outside of the RCC?
Please, I asked this once and you didn't answer!
WJ
Here is your answer:I cannot judge who individually is saved at the end of their life since I do not know whether God granted them true repentance or not.
Having said that, we can be confident that Jesus only has ONE body. No one is saved who is outside of that body. There is no salvation outside the Church. If anyone receives grace in spite of their complete ignorance, they receive it THROUGH the ministry of the Church. God is not bound by His sacraments. But we cannot presume to tempt or test God by relying on extraordinary grace. The Holy Spirit leads men INTO the Church as He did me. He leads men into all truth. The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)
It is dangerous for you to hear the truth and reject it. You should not presume on grace given because of your personal ignorance as though this were something normative.
It is not OK with God for you to be Protestant. He wants you to be Catholic.
CAGod wants us to be Catholic? Universal? what does that mean?
You said this.
“””Is the RCC getting converts by the Holy Spirit leading men into the RCC by telling them that the RCC is “The True Church” and that only through them they can be saved?”””What do you think is meant by, “come out of her my people”, come out of what? The RCC is the whore of the Bible, and the Protestant churches are her daughters.
You should really start reading the Bible, and I don't mean the popes bible.Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,18:47) You said this.
“””Is the RCC getting converts by the Holy Spirit leading men into the RCC by telling them that the RCC is “The True Church” and that only through them they can be saved?”””What do you think is meant by, “come out of her my people”, come out of what? The RCC is the whore of the Bible, and the Protestant churches are her daughters.
You should really start reading the Bible, and I don't mean the popes bible.Georg
That was WJ's quote. Go back and look.
BTW, I did read the KJV for years. I was almost a KJV onlyer. The KJV helped make me Catholic.
CA
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 19 2010,10:46)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,10:33)
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 18 2010,18:26)
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2010,10:19)
CA
I AGREE WITH THAT, WE CAN EASY PROVE IT WITH THIS SITE,
BUT LIKE I SAY THE SCRIPTURES TELLS WHAT THE CONDITION ARE REQUIRED TO BE SAVED AND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIVING WORD.TWO PEOPLE HAVING THE SAME ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL HEARTED IN TRUTH
TO THE GLORY OF GOD ,WILL RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER ,WITHOUT CONFRONTATION,THERE WILL BE NO CONFLICT BUT SHARING UNDERSTANDING.But unfortunately many reading the same Bible dispute “how to be saved.”
Some say just believe (have faith)
Some say repent + believe
Some say be baptized in water + repent + believe
Some say be baptized in the Holy Spirit + baptized in water + repent + believe
And each guy is as serious as a heart attack, loves God and wants to please God and be saved
But only ONE of them can be right.
The Bible Alone fails them…
CA
Does the Spirit of Truth which guides us into all truth have any part in this?
Why is it that you never speak of the Holy Spirit that is given to those who repent and believe in Jesus to lead them and guide them into all truth?
Is the RCC getting converts by the Holy Spirit leading men into the RCC by telling them that the RCC is “The True Church” and that only through them they can be saved?
Or do you believe that the Holy Spirit cannot save outside of the RCC?
Please, I asked this once and you didn't answer!
WJ
Here is your answer:
I cannot judge who individually is saved at the end of their life since I do not know whether God granted them true repentance or not.
Having said that, we can be confident that Jesus only has ONE body. No one is saved who is outside of that body. There is no salvation outside the Church. If anyone receives grace in spite of their complete ignorance, they receive it THROUGH the ministry of the Church. God is not bound by His sacraments. But we cannot presume to tempt or test God by relying on extraordinary grace. The Holy Spirit leads men INTO the Church as He did me. He leads men into all truth. The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)
It is dangerous for you to hear the truth and reject it. You should not presume on grace given because of your personal ignorance as though this were something normative.
It is not OK with God for you to be Protestant. He wants you to be Catholic
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU ARE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THEM ALL, TO BE WITH CHRIST.
WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR LIVE IS YOUR CHOICE ,IN YOU LIVE TIME YOU LEARN MANY ,MANY THINGS ,IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SEE WHAT S RIGHT FOR YOU TO DO,FOR THIS YOU USE YOU MIND ,YOUR HEART,YOUR AQUIRED KNOWLEDGE,ECT.AT THE END IF YOU CHOICE TO SERVE THE gOD OF THE SCRIPTURES ,YOU WOULD HAVE PROBABLY READ IT,AND SO BE INFORMED BY WHAT IT SAYS,THE WAY YOU SEE IT, WILL ALSO DEPEND ON THE INFLUENCE YOU ALLOWED TO BE PUT ON YOUR SELF BY OTHERS. AND WHO DEEP YOU BELIEVE IT IS TRUE,YOUR ATITUDE,AND REASONS MAY PLAY A ROLE,
BUT AT THE END OF IT ALL WE WILL ALL STAND IN FRONT OF THE TRIBUNAL OF CHRIST ALONE
SOME OF THE ITEMS WHO DOES NOT PAY ANY INFUENCE IN YOUR FAVOR ARE;EDUCATION,DEGREES,KNOWLEDGE BEYON GOD S WILL,CHURCH MEMBERSHIP,MEN DOCTRINES,
EGOS,PRIDE,DECIED,AND SIMILARS.Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2010,06:37) IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU ARE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THEM ALL, TO BE WITH CHRIST. WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR LIVE IS YOUR CHOICE ,IN YOU LIVE TIME YOU LEARN MANY ,MANY THINGS ,IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SEE WHAT S RIGHT FOR YOU TO DO,FOR THIS YOU USE YOU MIND ,YOUR HEART,YOUR AQUIRED KNOWLEDGE,ECT.AT THE END IF YOU CHOICE TO SERVE THE gOD OF THE SCRIPTURES ,YOU WOULD HAVE PROBABLY READ IT,AND SO BE INFORMED BY WHAT IT SAYS,THE WAY YOU SEE IT, WILL ALSO DEPEND ON THE INFLUENCE YOU ALLOWED TO BE PUT ON YOUR SELF BY OTHERS. AND WHO DEEP YOU BELIEVE IT IS TRUE,YOUR ATITUDE,AND REASONS MAY PLAY A ROLE,
BUT AT THE END OF IT ALL WE WILL ALL STAND IN FRONT OF THE TRIBUNAL OF CHRIST ALONE
SOME OF THE ITEMS WHO DOES NOT PAY ANY INFUENCE IN YOUR FAVOR ARE;EDUCATION,DEGREES,KNOWLEDGE BEYON GOD S WILL,CHURCH MEMBERSHIP,MEN DOCTRINES,
EGOS,PRIDE,DECIED,AND SIMILARS.
terrarica,It DOES matter if you are in the Church or outside of it.
You cannot be a lone ranger. God has had a covenant community that He has worked in and through to bring salvation through history.
If you are outside of the covenant, you are without hope and without God in the world.
Do not deceive yourself.
ca
YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES,LOOK AT ALL THE PROPHETS,LOOK WHAT CHRIST SAYS FOR HOW MANY YOU HAVE TO BE SO CHRIST IS WITH YOU 2 OR 3,THAT S FAR LESS THAN A WHOLE CHURCH.IT IS YOUR INSIDE THAT GOD LOOKS NOT THE OUTSIDE
Catholic apologist, So I guess the individual who is molested by a priest horrr-ibly that leaves the church out of trama is lost from leaving the church? Also you never answered my post in “invisible church” thread about the secrets and rituals in the k of c, or good friday” cross lie “
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2010,07:32) ca
YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES,LOOK AT ALL THE PROPHETS,LOOK WHAT CHRIST SAYS FOR HOW MANY YOU HAVE TO BE SO CHRIST IS WITH YOU 2 OR 3,THAT S FAR LESS THAN A WHOLE CHURCH.IT IS YOUR INSIDE THAT GOD LOOKS NOT THE OUTSIDE
You have no right to even QUOTE the Scriptures. You do not have a solid assurance to rest upon for their veracity. In addition to that, you cannot even substantiate why Philemon even belongs in the NT.Please stop quoting the Bible and let those to whom it was given quote it to you.
Quote (mikeangel @ Feb. 25 2010,22:26) Catholic apologist, So I guess the individual who is molested by a priest horrr-ibly that leaves the church out of trama is lost from leaving the church? Also you never answered my post in “invisible church” thread about the secrets and rituals in the k of c, or good friday” cross lie “
Yes, a person who is molested by a priest commits the sin of apostasy if they leave willfully. This is a grave sin.Answer me this.
Was it Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist who did the molesting? God forbid and a thousand times NO!
So why would a molested person remove themself from the source of life because of someone who HAS?
In the Church is the grace of God. Outside the Church is damnation.
If you do not answer me this rightly, I will know who's you are.
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