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Quote (Stu @ April 24 2009,12:40) bodhitharta Quote Viruses are not independent living organisms as they need a host, I suppose you may have known that but maybe you didn't but now you do.
Yes I learned that when I was 15. You asked specifically about what can evolve, and this is an example of something that can evolve and has only one of your three life processes.Quote Also, you obviously didn't know that reproduction cannot occur without metabolism as metabolism is a product of growth.
Reproduction cannot occur without metabolism today. I thought we were discussing abiogenesis. You are committing the logical fallacy of composition.Quote Also, you certainly did not understand that waste management is factual in all life as assimilation is neccessary for metabolism which is primary for growth which is essential to life.
How can you tell that I didn’t understand that? Because I gave you an example of something that can EVOLVE (your point) without needing to excrete?Quote I waited patiently to see exactly how much you knew and what I have found is that while you can read you lack the ability to understand some very basic concepts.
I don’t lack any of these understandings. The problem is you have just thrown a whole lot of biological concepts together without joining them into any kind of coherent argument, I assume in order to appear impressive. I’m afraid you do not impress me.Quote Metabolism is the set of chemical reactions that occur in living organisms in order to maintain life. These processes allow organisms to grow and reproduce, maintain their structures, and respond to their environments.
You cannot have 1 or 3 without 2.
Are you trying to be smart? The model of abiogenesis in the video I posted, with which I do not necessarily entirely agree, makes it very clear the proposed models of nutrition and excretion. Did you not bother to watch it?Quote You also do not understand what occurs at the boundary of a special type do you? I will help you…Sterility.
You called it a boundary species before. What are you talking about? Do you know?Quote Humans have 46 Chromosomes because their Humans so don't make a monkey out of yourself.
Bzzzzt. Wrong. Have you read those Wikipedia pages yet? Most of your ignornance on display here would be cured if your could retain even the basics from that information.Quote BTW, you wouldn't pay for a free tuition.
Go back and read. If you are literate.Stuart
Stu,BTW, Viruses use the biological mechanisms of the host to reproduce.
Therefor being a virus in no way changes what I taught you about Life Management and the 3 essential points needed for it to be maintained.
Also, once again I have not been talking about abiogenesis but since you keep saying that I am, that demonstrates to me that you do not understand what I have been saying at all.
Quote (t8 @ April 25 2009,00:20) Stu, there is also no evidence that there wasn't a creator. So your judgement comes right back at ya.
There is no evidence that you are worshipping the right creator, either.Stuart
bodhitharta
Quote BTW, Viruses use the biological mechanisms of the host to reproduce.
That’s why I said that today reproduction requires metabolism.Quote Therefor being a virus in no way changes what I taught you about Life Management and the 3 essential points needed for it to be maintained.
WHAT YOU TAUGHT ME?Quote Also, once again I have not been talking about abiogenesis but since you keep saying that I am, that demonstrates to me that you do not understand what I have been saying at all.
OK. What do you think you have been talking about? When you as how the first cell “evolved” the ability to reproduce, how were you not asking about abiogenesis?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 25 2009,21:17) bodhitharta Quote BTW, Viruses use the biological mechanisms of the host to reproduce.
That’s why I said that today reproduction requires metabolism.Quote Therefor being a virus in no way changes what I taught you about Life Management and the 3 essential points needed for it to be maintained.
WHAT YOU TAUGHT ME?Quote Also, once again I have not been talking about abiogenesis but since you keep saying that I am, that demonstrates to me that you do not understand what I have been saying at all.
OK. What do you think you have been talking about? When you as how the first cell “evolved” the ability to reproduce, how were you not asking about abiogenesis?Stuart
Stu,You brought up viruses as a silly ploy because you didn't understand the depth of knowledge I had on the subject but either way you are wrong because there were no viruses before hosts, so saying “today” doesn't help your argument.
Now, I have said about three times that I was never talking about abiogenesis what I was talking about was reproductive capacity as it pertains to evolution.
But, to be quite candid Stu the main reason for me posting in this section was to get you to gradually commit to an honest discussion about God.
Would you like to know the reality of God's existence Stu?
If you want we can go back to the garden and I can show you that God exists. I'm not talking about Genesis of the Bible directly but I am talking about Genesis of the Bible in creativity.
Quote (Stu @ April 25 2009,21:09) Quote (t8 @ April 25 2009,00:20) Stu, there is also no evidence that there wasn't a creator. So your judgement comes right back at ya.
There is no evidence that you are worshipping the right creator, either.Stuart
There is no evidence for you that I am worshipping the right creator, either. That is of course irrelevant because faith is a personal thing. It is a personal relationship, not a theory. I have experienced God and no amount of so-called knowledge can change that.Now back to the point.
There is also no evidence that there wasn't a creator.
So your judgements are based on no evidence.
That is the worst kind of science, the type that makes conclusions with no reasoning, proof, or evidence to back it up. In other words this kind of science is a failure and is unworthy to even be called science.
bodhitharta
Quote You brought up viruses as a silly ploy because you didn't understand the depth of knowledge I had on the subject but either way you are wrong because there were no viruses before hosts, so saying “today” doesn't help your argument.
Is this thread about biology or about you? You are making another strawman here by implying that I think viruses somehow predate living cells. Why do you feel the need to lie for Jesus?Quote Now, I have said about three times that I was never talking about abiogenesis what I was talking about was reproductive capacity as it pertains to evolution.
OK. In that case you are committing a category error. And thus I think you could afford to be a little more modest.Quote But, to be quite candid Stu the main reason for me posting in this section was to get you to gradually commit to an honest discussion about God.
I can see that. Did you think lying would convince me of your sincerity in wishing for such a discussion?Quote Would you like to know the reality of God's existence Stu?
Would you like me to tell you about it?Quote If you want we can go back to the garden and I can show you that God exists. I'm not talking about Genesis of the Bible directly but I am talking about Genesis of the Bible in creativity.
You are talking nonsense again, because your head is full of nonsense, on the evidence so far.Stuart
t8
Quote There is no evidence for you that I am worshipping the right creator, either. That is of course irrelevant because faith is a personal thing. It is a personal relationship, not a theory.
But you claim that nasty things will happen to those who do not worship the right creator. Surely it is not just a matter of personal whim? Little children will fry in hell if we get this wrong, won’t they?Quote I have experienced God and no amount of so-called knowledge can change that.
Personal anecdote. I have never experienced any gods, so they don’t exist. Our statements are equally valid.Quote Now back to the point.
There is also no evidence that there wasn't a creator.
We have dealt with that point. Since you claim a creator without providing any evidence for one, it is entirely appropriate for us to dismiss your claim along with those of the Moonies.Quote So your judgements are based on no evidence.
My conclusion is that since no one has ever presented any evidence for gods, that there are none. Add to that the claim that gods are supernatural, and we must conclude that the religious are making special pleads for things they cannot possibly know, by the definition of supernatural.Quote That is the worst kind of science, the type that makes conclusions with no reasoning, proof, or evidence to back it up. In other words this kind of science is a failure and is unworthy to even be called science.
Come on t8, you have posted creationist arguments before. That was the worst kind of science we have seen here. Although actually, of course it is not science at all really.Which are you asking for here? Reasoning (given above), proof (there is no such thing except in maths) or evidence (there is none, therefore the conclusion is valid)?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:52) But you claim that nasty things will happen to those who do not worship the right creator. Surely it is not just a matter of personal whim? Little children will fry in hell if we get this wrong, won’t they?
If you are a true person, then the truth is revealed to you. This is one of the great things about faith.Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasureIn other words God hides his truth from man's scientific thinking and instead reveals his truth to the innocent. Of course you can have both, but you must be innocent and pure to see the truth.
As for God frying babies, well show me a scripture that says such. It is not written. What is written is that God destroys sinful beings in what is called the second death. i.e., after we die, we face a judgement pertaining to our lives and conduct. The wicked will die for good after the judgement and the righteous are not affected by this as they have eternal life. That second death is called the Lake of Fire. This judgement in no way resembles an eternal frying pan where you are put in batter and served with chips. That lie was espoused by the Roman Catholic Church to keep people in fear and consequently to control them.
Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:52) We have dealt with that point. Since you claim a creator without providing any evidence for one, it is entirely appropriate for us to dismiss your claim along with those of the Moonies.
And likewise, you have not proved that God doesn't exist even though logic demands a creator when we look at creation.So you too need to throw away your claims that there is no God.
So now we are both sitting here without an experiment to prove either. That is good. I have experience of God. You have nothing and you will continue to have nothing until you actually want the truth. If you don't want it, then you don't deserve it.
Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:38) bodhitharta Quote You brought up viruses as a silly ploy because you didn't understand the depth of knowledge I had on the subject but either way you are wrong because there were no viruses before hosts, so saying “today” doesn't help your argument.
Is this thread about biology or about you? You are making another strawman here by implying that I think viruses somehow predate living cells. Why do you feel the need to lie for Jesus?Quote Now, I have said about three times that I was never talking about abiogenesis what I was talking about was reproductive capacity as it pertains to evolution.
OK. In that case you are committing a category error. And thus I think you could afford to be a little more modest.Quote But, to be quite candid Stu the main reason for me posting in this section was to get you to gradually commit to an honest discussion about God.
I can see that. Did you think lying would convince me of your sincerity in wishing for such a discussion?Quote Would you like to know the reality of God's existence Stu?
Would you like me to tell you about it?Quote If you want we can go back to the garden and I can show you that God exists. I'm not talking about Genesis of the Bible directly but I am talking about Genesis of the Bible in creativity.
You are talking nonsense again, because your head is full of nonsense, on the evidence so far.Stuart
can you show me where I lied?Stu,
When you don't understand what someone is saying it doesn't mean they lied to you.
Do you want to talk about why you believe that God doesn't exist or are you just saying that God may exist in some sense but just not the way we have been taught?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 27 2009,13:19) Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:38) bodhitharta Quote You brought up viruses as a silly ploy because you didn't understand the depth of knowledge I had on the subject but either way you are wrong because there were no viruses before hosts, so saying “today” doesn't help your argument.
Is this thread about biology or about you? You are making another strawman here by implying that I think viruses somehow predate living cells. Why do you feel the need to lie for Jesus?Quote Now, I have said about three times that I was never talking about abiogenesis what I was talking about was reproductive capacity as it pertains to evolution.
OK. In that case you are committing a category error. And thus I think you could afford to be a little more modest.Quote But, to be quite candid Stu the main reason for me posting in this section was to get you to gradually commit to an honest discussion about God.
I can see that. Did you think lying would convince me of your sincerity in wishing for such a discussion?Quote Would you like to know the reality of God's existence Stu?
Would you like me to tell you about it?Quote If you want we can go back to the garden and I can show you that God exists. I'm not talking about Genesis of the Bible directly but I am talking about Genesis of the Bible in creativity.
You are talking nonsense again, because your head is full of nonsense, on the evidence so far.Stuart
can you show me where I lied?Stu,
When you don't understand what someone is saying it doesn't mean they lied to you.
Do you want to talk about why you believe that God doesn't exist or are you just saying that God may exist in some sense but just not the way we have been taught?
Shall we just go with the lie that you taught me anything?You don't seem very interested in substantiating your claims. Why should I bother to substantiate mine?
Which god's existence would you like to discuss?
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ April 27 2009,12:13) Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:52) But you claim that nasty things will happen to those who do not worship the right creator. Surely it is not just a matter of personal whim? Little children will fry in hell if we get this wrong, won’t they?
If you are a true person, then the truth is revealed to you. This is one of the great things about faith.Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasureIn other words God hides his truth from man's scientific thinking and instead reveals his truth to the innocent. Of course you can have both, but you must be innocent and pure to see the truth.
As for God frying babies, well show me a scripture that says such. It is not written. What is written is that God destroys sinful beings in what is called the second death. i.e., after we die, we face a judgement pertaining to our lives and conduct. The wicked will die for good after the judgement and the righteous are not affected by this as they have eternal life. That second death is called the Lake of Fire. This judgement in no way resembles an eternal frying pan where you are put in batter and served with chips. That lie was espoused by the Roman Catholic Church to keep people in fear and consequently to control them.
OK. I stand corrected. Little children may be thrown into a lake of fire if we get the mythology wrong.That is so much more acceptable now.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ April 27 2009,12:16) Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:52) We have dealt with that point. Since you claim a creator without providing any evidence for one, it is entirely appropriate for us to dismiss your claim along with those of the Moonies.
And likewise, you have not proved that God doesn't exist even though logic demands a creator when we look at creation.So you too need to throw away your claims that there is no God.
If you set your premise right, then indeed logic can be made to demand an Imaginary Friend with no more explaining power than that gained through anyone else's mythology.If you reject all untestable assumptions, empirical science provides a model yet to be disproved by any christian.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 27 2009,23:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 27 2009,13:19) Quote (Stu @ April 26 2009,23:38) bodhitharta Quote You brought up viruses as a silly ploy because you didn't understand the depth of knowledge I had on the subject but either way you are wrong because there were no viruses before hosts, so saying “today” doesn't help your argument.
Is this thread about biology or about you? You are making another strawman here by implying that I think viruses somehow predate living cells. Why do you feel the need to lie for Jesus?Quote Now, I have said about three times that I was never talking about abiogenesis what I was talking about was reproductive capacity as it pertains to evolution.
OK. In that case you are committing a category error. And thus I think you could afford to be a little more modest.Quote But, to be quite candid Stu the main reason for me posting in this section was to get you to gradually commit to an honest discussion about God.
I can see that. Did you think lying would convince me of your sincerity in wishing for such a discussion?Quote Would you like to know the reality of God's existence Stu?
Would you like me to tell you about it?Quote If you want we can go back to the garden and I can show you that God exists. I'm not talking about Genesis of the Bible directly but I am talking about Genesis of the Bible in creativity.
You are talking nonsense again, because your head is full of nonsense, on the evidence so far.Stuart
can you show me where I lied?Stu,
When you don't understand what someone is saying it doesn't mean they lied to you.
Do you want to talk about why you believe that God doesn't exist or are you just saying that God may exist in some sense but just not the way we have been taught?
Shall we just go with the lie that you taught me anything?You don't seem very interested in substantiating your claims. Why should I bother to substantiate mine?
Which god's existence would you like to discuss?
Stuart
I did teach you something.Did you really know that essentially all living organisms have to have all three of the requirements I mentioned and if so, why did you bring up viruses?
There are no gods there is only GOD
Quote (Stu @ April 27 2009,23:12) If you set your premise right, then indeed logic can be made to demand an Imaginary Friend with no more explaining power than that gained through anyone else's mythology. Quote If you set your premise right,
i.e., Don't believe in God.Quote then indeed logic can be made to demand an Imaginary Friend with no more explaining power than that gained through anyone else's mythology.
Then Evolution means that no more explaining power is needed. You can ignore that energy cannot be created or destroyed (physically) and you can ignore that every effect has a cause, and you can ignore that design doesn't demand a designer.How convenient Stu.
bodhitharta
Quote I did teach you something.
Well if you did, I don't remember it so it was not a very effective lesson.Quote Did you really know that essentially all living organisms have to have all three of the requirements I mentioned and if so, why did you bring up viruses?
What do you mean by 'essentially'?
Come to think of it, you still have not said what you consider a border species to be.Quote There are no gods there is only GOD
Yeah, that was what you were saying before. You still have not said which god.Is it Sobek the Egyptian crocodile god?
Bear with me, it could take a while if I have to make guesses.
Stuart
Quote Then Evolution means that no more explaining power is needed.
That is certainly not true. However evolution by natural selection is a robust theory, one which you have not disproved, and you still have not provided us with any alternative.Quote You can ignore that energy cannot be created or destroyed (physically) and you can ignore that every effect has a cause, and you can ignore that design doesn't demand a designer.
“Doesn't” and “cannot” eh? How come your Imaginary Friend, allegedly a knowall, has told you what doesn't and cannot happen, yet still seems unwilling or unable to communicate through you the means by which 'he' separated baryons and antibaryons?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 28 2009,18:57) bodhitharta Quote I did teach you something.
Well if you did, I don't remember it so it was not a very effective lesson.Quote Did you really know that essentially all living organisms have to have all three of the requirements I mentioned and if so, why did you bring up viruses?
What do you mean by 'essentially'?
Come to think of it, you still have not said what you consider a border species to be.Quote There are no gods there is only GOD
Yeah, that was what you were saying before. You still have not said which god.Is it Sobek the Egyptian crocodile god?
Bear with me, it could take a while if I have to make guesses.
Stuart
Stu,God bless you for being part of this forum, it shows that you want to engage and that is good.
You wouldn't be here if you were sure there was no God as what would be the point. So, I am going to apologize for being a bit to judgemental of you.
In fact think of that word Judge-Mental I do not want to do that. I think your heart is worth examining for you obviously care about your fellow human beings.
God Bless you Always!
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 01 2009,08:01) Quote (Stu @ April 28 2009,18:57) bodhitharta Quote I did teach you something.
Well if you did, I don't remember it so it was not a very effective lesson.Quote Did you really know that essentially all living organisms have to have all three of the requirements I mentioned and if so, why did you bring up viruses?
What do you mean by 'essentially'?
Come to think of it, you still have not said what you consider a border species to be.Quote There are no gods there is only GOD
Yeah, that was what you were saying before. You still have not said which god.Is it Sobek the Egyptian crocodile god?
Bear with me, it could take a while if I have to make guesses.
Stuart
Stu,God bless you for being part of this forum, it shows that you want to engage and that is good.
You wouldn't be here if you were sure there was no God as what would be the point. So, I am going to apologize for being a bit to judgemental of you.
In fact think of that word Judge-Mental I do not want to do that. I think your heart is worth examining for you obviously care about your fellow human beings.
God Bless you Always!
Thank you bodhitharta.My view is that I cannot know about any gods, and that you cannot either. So I am curious to know how you can tell anyone about your god while dismissing what others say about their gods.
I take it there is no actual biological objection to evolution from anyone posting in this thread then: the objections are based on religious tenets.
Stuart
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