Before Abraham I AM

[NickHassan]

Hi TC

Me: Then after the Messiah’s resurrection, he was the first to ascend into heaven, not just of his spirit (soul) but with his spirit body. The dead saints minds together with the soul of Christ in them resurrected into heaven. Last step: new bodies at the first resurrection.

You say the minds of the saints are already resurrected into heaven?

Not written.

 

 

[mikeboll64]

Test

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

You say

Me: We are in Christ by the spirit of Christ that emanates from our minds.  Christ is in our minds by his spirit that emanates from his mind.

The Spirit enters man when he is reborn from above and those who walk in the Spirit and submit to the renewal of their minds can attain to the mind of Christ. Mind is not heart, and heart is more important for out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.  Man can imagine that because he has gained knowledge that he is in Christ but it can be vanity.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Gene,

 

You wrote:

 

Nick….I may have said the spirit in man came from God, because scripture says if God were to withdraw his spirit and breath, all flesh would “parish”together.

Job 34:14-15…If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; (All) flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

.But Ii never said the ANNOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD, WAS THE “SAME” SPIRIT THAT MAN WAS BORN WITH….I have always viewed the annoitnting spirit of God different then the spirit we are born with, but both are from Godand belong to God as well as the breath of life, as JOB 34:14-15…clearly shows.

 

Me: This is a good post. I agree with it. I will put Job 34:14-15 in my reciprocal of “go to scriptures”.

Job 12:9 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

Eccl 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All (with their bodies and souls) go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

 

Gene wrote:

TC…The spirit of CHRIST is not the man Jesus’ spirit he was born with, it is the Chisto’s or (anointing spirit) of God, the spirit of Christ Jesus is referring to is the anointing spirit of God. If the spirit is in us, we, the same as Jesus, are in GOD the Father and God the Father is us also, just as he is in Jesus, same spirit of God in all and through all. That’s the way I see it.

 

Me: I agree with you, thank you for adding the element of the “anointing”.  I had mentioned that the prophets of old had the spirit of Christ in them, i.e. the spirit of God in them. This is the same spirit that was in Christ, yes the “spirit of Christ or spirit of God.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (what he was anointed to do) , not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Eccl 3.19

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them :

as the one dieth, So dieth the other: yea they have all one breath:

so that man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity

SPEAKING OF THE VISIBLE BOTH MEN AND ANIMALS DIE.

All go to one place: all are of the dust and all turn to dust again.

SPEAKING OF THE VISIBLE BOTH THE BODIES OF MEN AND ANIMALS RETURN TO DUST.

Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upwards , and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth

THE SPIRIT OF MAN RETURNS TO GOD.

 

 

Man IS a living soul.

 

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Gene,

Job 34.14f

If He set His heart upon man, if He gather unto Himself His spirit and His breath:

all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again to dust.

 

All natural men and animals live by His breath and should He remove it they die.

All spirit comes from, and belongs to the Father of spirits.

Those in His Son live forever by His Holy Spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

ECCL7.29

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright:

but they have sought out many inventions.

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi Gene,

Ecc9.4

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward;

for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

Speaking of earthly matters the ability to change things rests with those yet alive and to be remembered is our reward.

 

 

 

[Truthcomber]

Does God have a heart metaphorically?

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

 

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/jeremiah/44-21.htm

Jer 44:21….did not the LORD remember them and did not [all this] come into His mind?

Is God a spirit?

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

God doesn’t have a soul and body. He has a heart and a mind and a spirit. As you can see in the definitions below of heart, it is always accompanied by mind.

2 Cor 3:3…but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

Definition of heart in OT

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/3820.htm

inner man, mind, will, heart

 

Definition of heart in the NT

http://biblehub.com/greek/2588.htm

Definition: lit: the heart; mind, character, inner self, will, intention, center

 

Me: The heart is the inner self of the mind.

 

 

I had written “in the end, man has his own mind with the holy spirit in it from God and the soul from the mind of from Christ as one spirit. I like to make one modification.

 

In the end, each man including Christ has his own mind with the one holy spirit in. The preeminent human heart is of the mind of Christ. Men of God put on Christ in their inner man and die to their human heart that is now evil after his man’s fall. We die to our human hearts in our minds when we put Christ’s heart in lieu of our hearts. We thus crucify our “flesh”. Thus as we die more and more to our natural hearts and put on the heart of the Lord, we become like him.

 

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/ezekiel/11-19.htm

Ezk 1:19 And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them, and I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh:

 

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/jeremiah/17-10.htm

I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind…

 

Me: The spirit comes from the heart deep inside the mind.

 

 

You wrote:

 

Eccl 12:6 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

Matt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

 

.

Me:

 

John 19:30 and Matt 27:50 above go together, Eccl 12:6 doesn’t. Eccl 12:6b goes together with Job 32:8 and 1 Cor 2:14 below.

 

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

 

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Nick, What spirit is in man that gives him understanding?

 

Hint: It is the holy spirit in those that receive it. God “gave it” in Eccl 12:6 to those that receive it Job 32:8.

Where do you think the holy spirit in Christ went to when he died?

Hint: “upward” to heaven.

 

And where to you think the Messiah’s soul went when he died?

 

Acts 2:27 because you will not abandon my (David’s) soul to hades (G86:the abode of departed spirits), nor allow your holy one undergo decay…31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection, neither was he abandoned to hades (G86:the abode of departed spirits) nor did his flesh see decay.

 

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/acts/2-27.htm

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/acts/2-31.htm

 

Me: Christ’s soul (spirit) went to hades. Where did the holy spirit in him go to? Where did the holy spirit go to when the prophets died? Did the holy spirit and the spirit of man both go up to heaven? Eccl 12:6 mentions only one spirit. I believe it is the holy spirit.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Me: 1 Peter 3:18 goes with John 5:25. The dead souls (spirits) are in hades.

Me: How many spirits are there in the end?

 

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling.

 

Me: There are now two basic intensity of the same spirit (as shown in the verses below) that God gives. The spirit of man or his soul (which is the spirit of all earthly life), and the holy spirit. In the end, there will be only one spirit, the holy spiirt.

 

John 10:10 … I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

John 7:39 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

Young’s Literal Translation
the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

 

Comment: Water symbolizes spirit. Even soul, spirit, breath, and life all have spirit, breath, soul, and life as definitions of them. They are all used interchangeable. Spirit gives life. So, abundant life implies an abundant spirit. This is the holy spirit.   The different intensity of the spirit now separates the holy spirit from the spirit of man and animals.

 

Psalm 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath (spirit or life) praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

 

Rev 15:3 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

 

https://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Jan/18/are-animals-capable-praising-god/

 

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

The whole creation will be “all in all” with one spirit, the holy spirit. The distinguishing element among all has to me the minds of the spirit.

 

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

 

 

You wrote:

“It was the same spirit that the animal kingdom acquired..”

 

Men and animals are both of the breath of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Breath of God: anything created by God is by the breath of God including our minds and spirits.

 

Neither are holy of their created nature.

 

Man must be reborn form above to share in the holy spirit.

 

Me: answered above already

 

 

You:

Ecclesiastes is an unusual book.

 

It was written from one man’s personal experience.

 

Note how many times the word I’ appears and how often he quotes what he has seen’

 

The experiences of men do not include deep knowledge of what happens after death but many quote it.

 

Me: All scripture is given by the inspiration of God. Are you saying that Eccl is not an inspired book? Do you know more than the author? I think not.

 

[Truthcomber]

Nick wrote:

 

Adam and Eve lost their spirit minds when they sinned.

 

Any Scriptures?

 

Adam and Eve were made potential vessels for the spirit of God.

 

Empty vessels as God communicated with them from without.

 

The second Adam was born again from above and God was in him reconciling the world to himself. No need to imagine metaphysical things as it is written, as we should follow him.

 

 

 

 

With the flesh I sin, but with my mind.

 

Christ was not born again from above at birth. But he was born from above–Same word. Christ was born from inception with the spirit of God in him. Mankind is born again because they have death passed on to them whereby they sin even in the womb, for the human heart is enmity towards God. Christ had no sin and needed not die if he had not chosen to do so. But it was God’s will that he did sacrifice for mankind.  With the flesh or mind of the flesh man sins.

 

A & E died the very same day that they sinned. “in that very day you shall surely die” was the death sentence, for they lived for almost a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day unto the Lord. But more importantly, they died of something that was spiritual

 

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

Me: What did they die of that very day? It wasn’t there souls (spirits) or body.

 

Matt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

 

Me: Those that Christ was referring to as dead “let the dead bury…” would be alive as men know it.

 

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit (soul) is dead.

 

Me: So, the body with the spirit is alive as men know it, but are dead in something spiritual as God knows it. That couldn’t be the spirit of God, nor the soul of man when he is alive, nor the body. It has to be the mind capable of receiving the spiritual things of God—the spirit mind. This is opposed to the carnal mind

 

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Me: All men have a soul, they are alive physically but are dead spiritually. So if they are dead spiritually, what could A & E have died of? They did not have the everlasting life in them, because they had not eaten of the tree of life. The only conclusion is that they died of their spirit mind that was capable of receiving the holy spirit. What if they had eaten of the tree of life and had not sinned. Then they would have the attributes of God except for one thing. You cannot really and deeply know good unless you know evil. Only God can without sin.

 

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (the newly acquired spirit mind) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Me: One  can follow the mind of the flesh or the mind of the spirit.  The mind of the spirit is a true mind.

 

Nike wrote:

 

Gen 1:27

 

God created man In his own image.

 

Then after man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

Gen 3:7

 

Then the eyes of them were both opened and they knew they were naked.

 

Gen 3:22

Then the Lord God said

 

“behold the man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil.

 

So now being able to distinguish good from evil gave man insight and knowledge that left him no excuse for sinning.

 

Me:

 

Yes, except for one thing.  When Adam sinned, death was passed on to the whole human race. It is this death that is passed on to the descendants of Adam that causes all to sin.

 

Romans 5:12 On account of this as if through one man the sin into the world entered, and through the sin death; and thus to all men death went through, because by which reason all sinned (ABP)….

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/14268/translation-of-romans-512

 

only when eph’ho [(ἐφ’ ᾧ)] is understood to modify thanatos [(θάνατος)]—kai houtos eis pantas anthropous ho thanatos dielthen eph’ho (thanato) pantes hemarton [(καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν, ἐφ’ ᾧ (θάνατο) πάντες ἥμαρτον)]—”because of which” (death), or “on the basis of which” (death), or “for which (death) all have sinned.”

 

Me: Adam means all of mankind.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/120.htm

 

 

Me: We can never repent of the sin that Adam committed, and thus we cannot be justified, save the sacrifice of Christ by the grace of God. It is the unpardonable sin until then. We can repent of the sins we commit after we are born again of the spirit, not in our natural minds of the flesh, but the mind of the spirit we can reacquire after we are born again.

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

 

Nick wrote:

 

You say the spirit in the natural man deep down inside him is evil.

 

This is false, but a popular notion.

 

Me:

 

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Comment: Whose mind and heart is deceitful above all things? Whose heart through his spirit influences man?

 

Mark 17:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Me: It is not a false notion that the natural man is evil down deep in his heart, in contrast to your edicts.   Without God’s spirit to change our hearts, we are subject to the devil. The devil reigns over the hearts of men through his evil spirit. He is the God of this world.  Look around!  Man needs the spirit of God in his mind to convert him. Being begotten with the spirit is only the beginning of conversion.

Psalm 51:5 (NIV) Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Me: Man is evil from the time of conception. He has death in his spirit, death is of the spirit of the devil.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil.

Me: We all sin when we follow the spirit of the flesh in the heart and mind of the flesh. When we follow the holy spirit in our spirit minds, we cannot sin there.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.:

This is a parallel verse to Jer 7:9.

 

Me: We have the spirit of the devil in our flesh. I believe that “flesh” includes not only our fleshly brains, but our whole body of flesh, for everything works as one.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Me: When we (descendants of Adam) are born again, we receive a spirit mind.

 

Nick:

The creation of God was very good. But Adam worshipped the God of this world, the serpent, Satan.

 

Adam was not created evil in any way and we do not judge our God for his creation.

 

Sin was standing at the door and natural man invited sin into his vessel.

 

The whole world is under the power of the evil one since then.

 

Me:

 

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

James 1:13…for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

Adam was not created good as God. God is the only truly good one. Adam had the capacity to be tempted and did sin. Christ was tempted but did not sin. God cannot be tempted, nor can he sin..

 

 

 

 

 

Nick:

The vessel of Jesus provided God with the opportunity to establish his new creation built around his new spirit.

 

‘Repent and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins: an you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Me: True

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick,

You wrote:

 

You say

 

Spirit is in the blood

 

Not written

 

You would make scripture argue with itself by denying the spirit returns to God.

 

Blood is of the earth, not heaven.

 

 

Me:

Written but not understood

 

True, you will not find one verse in the bible that says the spirit is in the blood. You need to take the biblical way of understanding scripture. You need to combine scripture to understand it. You cannot come out with an edict that something is not true. This is saying that what you believe is true without us first discussing it.

 

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Me: We do not understand scripture all at once but grow in spirit and in truth.  We need to combine the verses from everywhere in the bible to understand the bible.  We cannot pull one verse and realize what it means, sometimes even in the context of the paragraph or chapter.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh (including the blood) counts for nothing…

Comment: Therefore, the spirit is in the blood.

 

Confirmation:

 

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead…

 

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

The heart is desperately wicked.

God created man upright but he submitted to another god, the god of this world.

It is a long way back for every man ruled from within by the kingdom of darkness when the heart is owned by another god.

The hope of our God is that light can overcome the darkness and draw back men to Himself.

Few respond to His call and many are trapped in intellectual vanity.

But nothing has changed since Peter spoke at Pentecost.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick:

 

You wrote:

 

You say that water baptism is only symbolic.

 

Do not denigrate what God has provided

 

It is a plea to God for forgiveness

 

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison (the just spirits in hades); 29 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

Me: The prophets whose souls were in prison (vs.9) in the heart of the earth had  not been baptized in water. They were baptized (John 5:25, submerged in Christ’s human spirit at the time of his ascension into heaven). We are baptized into his death. The thief on the cross did not receive water baptism. We are saved by God, not water.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Me: These were baptized with the holy spirit first.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized (buried in the Messiah death) in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Me: Then they were baptized with water. When we are water baptized, we are baptized in the name of Christ and the Yahweh. We call upon the name (unknown) to save us (Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21). Water baptism should be done if possible.  It is calling upon the name of God to save us.  We are baptized it that unknown one name of Yahweh and Christ.

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

The life of the flesh is in the blood.

The Spirit gives Life (Zoe2222)

 

You sadly confuse NATURAL LIFE with ETERNAL LIFE.

 

Scripture is not to be understood by creating a patchwork quilt of verses but by finding witnessing verses.

2 Cor 13.1

..Every fact is to be confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses..

 

 

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Prophets in prison???

Read the context – the time of NOAH.

 

The thief died under the old covenant, not the new.

Jesus had yet to die and shed his blood, which the new covenant is in.

[Truthcomber]

Hi Nick:

You questioned me.

“You say that the minds of the saints are already in heaven?

Jesus said I am the resurrection.  Whosoever believeth in me shall never die.  He said salvation is Now.

Me The minds of the dead saints are already in heaven.

[Truthcomber]

I gave you a abundance of scripture.  I am not confused.  You are.

[Truthcomber]

The thief died under the OT but was resurrected into life after Christ had ascended into heaven–just like the rest of the prophets did.  I have to go now

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,

Adam did die that day.

 

A day can be 1000 years to God as Ps90 tells us and 2 Peter witnesses to.

Adam died age 930-less than 1000 years and none subsequently passed 1000 years.

No need to develop other metaphysical ideas to explain what is plain.

[Author]

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