Before Abraham I AM

This topic contains 144 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Truthcomber 7 months ago.

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  • #831763
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…This is the way i translate the meaning of what 1 PETER 1:11,…”searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of (the anointing ) which was “in” them did signify, when “it” testified beforehand the suffering of the (anointed) Jesus, and the glory that should follow.

    The word Christ can be referencing JESUS, BUT CAN ALSO MEAN ANYONE ANOINTED TO, DEPENDS ON CONTEXT.

    We know that Christ be in you does not mean the man Jesus himself, but the anointing that was “in’ him be in us also. The word Christ can be used in various way INO.

    For instance where it says, CHRIST was following following Israel, in the wilderness that is not refferencing the man Jesus, but the anointing spirit of God. “The holy spirit”.

    See my point?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #831764
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick….There is no human spirit, there is Spirit God put in man m and it certainly does animate the mind, it gives us our intellects we have, just as it gives animales their intelligent they have. All life is of the spirit, that life giving intellect is even in our blood, or how would our genetic codes even work without spirit causing them to function properly? Spirit is what life is period, it drives the “life” of the person it is in.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #831766
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Having opposed the teaching of Jesus you now spread your wings and oppose all scripture?

    Where does scripture say men and animals all received His Spirit?

    LIFE giving INTELLECT? Nonsense.

     

    #831767
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Your dogma that the dirt body just has life added limits your growth.

    Your dogma makes no room even for your beloved intellect.

    #831768
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Yes we can receive a new heart and the mind of Christ if we submit to the work of the Spirit

    But he remains as head of the Body which includes us if we have been ‘beheaded’

     

    #831769
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    The spirit of men and animals is of the breath of God, not His Holy Spirit.

    Get the basics right.

     

    #831771
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    You deny the words of Jesus Christ.

    But you never lose faith in your own ideas.

    Intellect rules?

    #831772
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    The Sun is a light source.

    The moon is a lamp but just reflects light.

    The Son of God brings the light of God to the darkened earth.

     

    #831785
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick and All,

     

    Nick Wrote:

    Hi TC,

    First quote: Of course the breath of God is not the SPIRIT of God.  

    Men and animals were not born of the Spirit of God

    Second quote:

    The human spirit returns to God who gave it.

    .

    Me: Yes to the first quote, no to the second.

    If you read Eccl 3 below, you would notice in verse 19 that man and beast have the same breathe or soul (spirit). Their spirits do not return to God, neither does man’s. Click on the link below to see that rauch (H7307) can mean wind, breathe or spirit.

    http://biblehub.com/lexicon/ecclesiastes/3-19.htm

    It makes no sense to say that man and the beast are of one wind or breathe.  I believe it does mean that man who is like the beast and beast have exactly the same spirit in them.

    In Genesis 2:7, man became a living being (5315 Nephesh) because of the Nephesh (soul or spirit) breathe into him.

    http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htm

     

    Nick wrote:

    And you forgot to include Eccl 3:21 in your quote when you compared the fate of animals and men.

    Me: I did quote Eccl 3:21 in the next sentence, I just forgot to label it: (July 1,2018 @10:27 PM)

     

    Eccl 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath (spirit); so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

    Me:. When A & E had sinned, the whole animal kingdom was subject to death.

    Up to this point no spirit of man hath ascended into heaven. Man is like the beasts. The innate spirit of the natural man deep down inside him is evil. This is his natural inner man; it is the heart of his mind of the flesh. This spirit does not return to God.

    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    Eccl 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

    Me: The spirit of the beast (including natural man’s spirit goes down to the earth.  An example of this is righteous Abel.

    Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.

    Blood contains spirit because the life is in the blood.  The body without the spirit is dead.  So the soul of Abel went down to the hades.  So did the soul of Christ.  The question here is, who but God knows the time when the spirit of man will ascend into heaven.  This spirit is the spirit of Christ.  We have the spirit of Christ in our minds.  Where there is spirit, there is mind.  Where there is mind, there is spirit.  We die to the spirit of the flesh and put in the spirit of Christ in our human minds. The first human mind and spirit to enter heaven was the Messiah’s.

    Luke 23:44 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    Me: Christ was committing his spirit or soul to his father.  This does not mean his spirit ascended into heaven then and there. It means that God would unit his body and soul from the grave.

    Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (hades: place of the dead souls), neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    Me: Then after the Messiah’s resurrection, he was the first to ascend into heaven, not just of his spirit (soul) but with his spirit body. The dead saints minds together with the soul of Christ in them resurrected into heaven. Last step: new bodies at the first resurrection.

     

     

    Nick wrote: Second Quote:

    God chooses to define man in two ways.

    He was made in the image of God by the breathe of Godinner man.

    Me: When God breathe the spirit of life in man, it was the same spirit that the whole animal kingdom acquired as quoted in Eccl 3:19. They did not have the image of God in them.

    Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…

    Me: This was a first necessary step. Christ was planned to be crucified before the foundations of the earth. God creates the evil and good.

    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    Me: We were created in the image of God, the expression of himself. That image is Christ, the image of God visibly is the form or body of Christ. He is the outer image that all mankind would be made a copy of. This is the expressed image of God visibly.  Man is created in this image that was in the mind of God.

    Nick second Quote:

    Salvation of the soul is the goal.

    Me:

    John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

     

    Me: Christ is also the heart and spirit of the inner image that man would be made to put on. He is the soul of our inner man or mind.

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him (spiritually).

    Me: We die to the human spirit of our inner man as Christ enters and is our sacrifice.  This spirit does not ascend into heaven.  But man can also have a spirit mind reborn in his inner man. Adam and Eve lost their spirit mind when they sinned. They had died to it. But they and mankind could receive a new spirit mind that could receive the spirit of God, for they are like God, knowing good and evil.

    Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    Me: This part is a lie.

    Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Me: This part is true.

     

     

    Nick wrote:

     

    But remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return. —outer man.

    Outer man has no future as flesh cannot enter the kingdom so it is replaced by a new body.

    True: We need new bodies of the spirit.

    Third quote:

    Yes TC, but the human spirit does not emanate from the human mind. It is the breathe of God passed down from Adam that has been passed on through the generations. It returned to God at death as happened with Jesus at Calvary.

    Me: Disagree

    John 14:20 <span class=”jesus”>At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.</span>

    Me: We are in Christ by the spirit of Christ that emanates from our minds.  Christ is in our minds by his spirit that emanates from his mind.

    God bless you.

    #831786
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick…. I may have said the spirit in man came from God, because scripture says if God were to wihdraw his spirit and breath, all flesh would “parish” together.

    Job 34:14-15…If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15..(ALL) flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

    But i never said the ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD, WAS THE “SAME” SPIRIT THAT MAN WAS BORN WITH. I have no idea where you came up with that from. I have always viewed the anointing spirit of God different then the spirit we are born with, but both are from God and belong to God as well as the breath of life, as JOD 34:14-15 ..clearly shows.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #831787
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…The spirit of CHRIST, is not the man Jesus’ spirit he was born with, it is the Christo’s or (anointing spirit) of God, the spirit of Christ Jesus is referencing the the anointing spirit of God. If that spirit is in us, we, the same as Jesus, are in GOD the Father and God the Father is in us also, just as he is in Jesus, same spirit of God in all and through all. Thats the way i see it.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #831792
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Eccl 12.7

    Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,

    and the spirit will return to God Who gave it.

    Jn 19.20

    Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, he said

    ’It s finished’

    And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

    Matt 27.50

    And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up his spirit.

     

    #831793
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    ‘Adam and Eve lost their Spirit mind when they sinned’

    Any scriptures?

    Adam and Eve were made like us as potential vessels for the Spirit of God.

    Empty vessels as God communicated with them from without.

     

    The second Adam was born again from above and God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.

    No need to imagine metaphysical things as it is written, and we should follow him.

    #831795
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Gen 1.27

    God created man in His own image.

    Then after man ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Gen 3.7

    Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew they were naked..

    Gen 3.22

    Now the Lord God said

    ’Behold the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil..’

     

    So nw being able to distinguish good from evil gave man insight and knowledge that left him no excuse for sinning.

     

    #831796
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    ‘It was the same spirit that the animal kingdom acquired..’

    Men and animals are both of the breath of God.

    Neither are HOLY of their created nature.

    Man must be reborn from above to share in the Holy Spirit.

     

    Ecclesiates is an unusual book.

    It is written from one man’s personal experience.

    Note how many times the word ‘I’ appears and how often he quotes what he has ‘seen’.

    The experiences of men do not include deep knowledge of what happens after death but many quote it.

     

     

    #831797
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    You say

    ’the innate spirit in the natural man deep down inside him is evil’

    This is false, but a popular notion.

    The creation of God was very good. But Adam worshipped the god of this world, the serpent, Satan.

    Adam was not created evil in any way and we do not judge our God for His creation.

    Sin was standing at the door and natural man invited sin into his vessel.

    The whole world is under the power of the evil one since then.

     

    The vessel of Jesus provided God with an opportunity to establish His new creation built around His Spirit

    ‘Repent and each of you and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’

     

    #831798
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    You say

    ‘spirit is in the blood’

    Not written.

    You would make scripture argue with itself by denying the spirit returns to God.

    Blood is of earth, not heaven.

    #831799
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    You say.

    ’water baptism is only symbolic’

    Do not denigrate what God has provided.

    It is a plea to God for forgiveness.

    1 peter3

    #831800
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    You say

    ’We die to the human spirit of our inner man’

    Not written.

    We are transformed by the renewal of our minds,

    #831801
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    1 peter 1.9

    ..obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

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