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Quote (t8 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:40) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 18 2010,18:37) Meantime the evidence for Hawking's eloquent expression of the standard cosmological model stands, undented by anything you have written.
Has Hawking gone back to the originator. If so, what is it? Gravity? And is this thing (gravity) someone, something, or nothing.Just give me an option to work with so we can progress. It has to be one of them.
What is an originator? Why are you suggesting such a thing is necessary?Stuart
T8 wrote:
Quote Here is a riddle.
On his 30th birthday, a man who wishes to build a time machine is visited by a future version of himself. This future self explains to him that he should not worry about designing the time machine, as he has done it in the future. The man receives the schematics from his future self and starts building the time machine. Time passes until he finally completes the time machine. He then uses it to travel back in time to his 30th birthday, where he gives the schematics to his past self, closing the loop.Nice explanation as the loop is now closed.
But where did the schematics come from?No explanation for it is there and this is similar to saying there is no God.
You might try and close the loop in your argument, but you ignore one big glaring fact.
It had to come from someone, somewhere, something.Cute. Here's another story:
A father is sitting down to have his morning coffee while he reads the paper when his four year old son walks in the room.
“Dad, where did we come from,” the boy asks.
“Well, you see son. Your mother and I love each other very much – “
“No, I don't mean that, Dad. Mommy already told me about the stork. I want to know where I was before the stork brought me here.”
“Well, son, before the stork brought you here, you did not exist. We celebrate your birthday, because it marks a beginning – the day you were born. Everything has a beginning son.”
“Did you have a beginning, Dad?”
“Oh yes. You exist because the love your mother and I share gave birth to you. I exist because of the love between your grandfather and grandmother. It's how we all came to be.”
“Hhhmm. What about Adam?”
“The boy next door? Well, his father – “
“No, Dad, the Adam in the bible. He didn't have parents.”
“Very smart, son,” the father said with a grin. “But, Adam had the most special beginning of us all. God created him, and that is how we all began!” He started to look at his newspaper again, satisfied that he had taught his son a profound lesson.
“Dad?”
“Yes, son.”
“Where did God come from? Did he have a Dad?”
Pausing to ponder the mysteries of the Trinity, the father exclaimed, “No. He's the only one with no beginning. He's the most special.”
“But, Dad, I thought you said that everything has a beginning.”
“Yes, except God.”
“How's that possible?”
“He's eternal!”
“How's that possible?”
“He's infinite!”
“How's that possible?”
“He has no beginning!”
“I know. You said that already, but how's that possible?”
“I don't know.”
“Well, then, how do you know it?”
The father starts singing, “God said it, and I believe it. And, that's good enough for – “
“Dad! I'm serious!”
“So am I.”
“Oh.” The boy thought for a while. “Was anyone else there to see that God had no beginning?”
“What are you, some kind of lawyer?” asked the frustrated father.
“No. Just curious. Aren't you?” His father stared at him blankly. The boy continued, “I mean, if everything else has a beginning, isn't it possible that God had a beginning too but that he can't remember it? After all, he had to come from somewhere or something. He couldn't have just appeared from nothing.” He thought some more. “Maybe the stork brought him and he doesn't remember it just like I don't remember the stork bringing me!”
The father buried his head in his newspaper, and the little boy scampered off to ask his mother about the supreme being of the universe: the stork!
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