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Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,01:03) This is about believes contra believes,and not person against person.
So it is you but not me that believes there is a thing called a god, which you cannot demonstrate to be exist, and it is what you believe, but it might be wrong, yes?Quote No one can prove anything,but can give evidence.
Love is real but can not scientifically be proved.
You would have to define love to determine whether that question could be investigated by the scientific method.Quote Look into the simplest cell,and it will boggle your mind,and the complexity even the scientists wonder. How can it be,whos wisdom is that.
Indeed I find cells intriguingly mind-boggling. It is not my personal work that has explained the functioning of cells. But it isn’t your Imaginary Friend that has done any explaining.Quote If the simplest cell is so complex, what about evolution?
What about evolution? Cells are complex because of evolutionary change.Quote Where did that simple cell evolve from?
You should do some reading on the topic, it’s very interesting. You will need to have some chemistry though.Quote There must be a greater mind that created that.
Why must there be? Because you personally cannot conceive of it any other way? You don’t even have an explanatory conception of your goddidit model.Quote But you just ignore such a great wonder,and say its nature.
No, I appreciate such great wonder, and rejoice in it. But that has never encouraged me to give up and say goddidit. I’m interested in explanations, but you don’t appear to be. Goddidit isn’t an explanation for anything.Quote Thats it,take it or leave it. Anyone that believe in some kind of a God is an idiot.
Not an idiot, a deluded person.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,01:45) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,01:03) This is about believes contra believes,and not person against person.
So it is you but not me that believes there is a thing called a god, which you cannot demonstrate to be exist, and it is what you believe, but it might be wrong, yes?Quote No one can prove anything,but can give evidence.
Love is real but can not scientifically be proved.
You would have to define love to determine whether that question could be investigated by the scientific method.Quote Look into the simplest cell,and it will boggle your mind,and the complexity even the scientists wonder. How can it be,whos wisdom is that.
Indeed I find cells intriguingly mind-boggling. It is not my personal work that has explained the functioning of cells. But it isn’t your Imaginary Friend that has done any explaining.Quote If the simplest cell is so complex, what about evolution?
What about evolution? Cells are complex because of evolutionary change.Quote Where did that simple cell evolve from?
You should do some reading on the topic, it’s very interesting. You will need to have some chemistry though.Quote There must be a greater mind that created that.
Why must there be? Because you personally cannot conceive of it any other way? You don’t even have an explanatory conception of your goddidit model.Quote But you just ignore such a great wonder,and say its nature.
No, I appreciate such great wonder, and rejoice in it. But that has never encouraged me to give up and say goddidit. I’m interested in explanations, but you don’t appear to be. Goddidit isn’t an explanation for anything.Quote Thats it,take it or leave it. Anyone that believe in some kind of a God is an idiot.
Not an idiot, a deluded person.Stuart
Hi Stuart.Thank you for your respond.
No one can prove God exist,for he is spirit,of a higher dimension.
But Jesus said;SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND.One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
Most christians failed to seek him in truth,therefore never come to the stage of truly understanding; who, or what, and why?
Jesus said in luke 10:22.—no man knoweth who the son is but the father,and who the father is but the son,and he to whom the son will reveal him.
There is one way to find God is by seeking the scriptures.
There is such as the super natural,most do believe in the super natural.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) No one can prove God exist,for he is spirit,of a higher dimension.
OK. I’ll go on assuming you are deluded then. Your invocation of pseudoscientific language here helps confirm it for me.Quote But Jesus said;SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND.
How can you know anything about what Jesus said? If you handed in a history essay on the sayings of Jesus and their impact in ancient Palestine, and you cited only the gospels as your references then no teacher of history in his right mind should give you a pass grade.That last bit represents your discourtesy on two counts: you feel the need to shout this nonsense at me by capitalising it, and you are prostyletising at me again. You are assuming that I will go along with your assertion that there is something to find. But you still haven’t said what it is.
Quote One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
The more I read scripture, and I’ve read quite a lot of it now, the more I see that this god thing is a human invention. I don’t think you have joined the dots as well as I have.Quote Most christians failed to seek him in truth,therefore never come to the stage of truly understanding; who, or what, and why?
The No True Scotsman fallacy, written as a religious platitude.But I suspect a reason for you posting here is that you need your belief in woo confirmed by others with the same delusion, because you know that what you believe about men walking again after judicial execution and a man being born without a biological father is ridiculous.
You rationalise that the process you have gone through means you “know god”, and you are special, and even others who have apparently swallowed the absurdities of christianity still aren’t as special as you.
Quote Jesus said in luke 10:22.—no man knoweth who the son is but the father,and who the father is but the son,and he to whom the son will reveal him.
…which is basically christianity’s statement of totalitarianism. When discussing different religions many christians are inclined to say that all those other differently-named gods worshipped by other people are actually just different ways of thinking about the one god that they say exists. So that’s good then, except you get statements like Luke 10:22, which basically says that the only access to this one god is through the messianic figure of this particular religion. This is the only way, there is no other. Probably in your family and in mine there were people who went to war to fight totalitarianism, but here you are asserting the totalitarianism of your own belief system.These religious systems can’t all be right, can they. Some must be wrong, or at least that’s what your Book of Talking Snakes says. Does your scripture tell you that christianity is right, and all the others are wrong? It would say that, wouldn’t it.
Quote There is one way to find God is by seeking the scriptures.
That’s your opinion, but many christians in the world would disagree. This is not a very nice hobby you follow, is it, with so much bitter disagreement between fellow hobbyists.Quote There is such as the super natural,most do believe in the super natural.
Aren’t you special then.Stuart
Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
Hey Stuart,Notice how Wakeup also speaks in the same manor as I?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:01) You are assuming that I will go along with your assertion that there is something to find. But you still haven’t said what it is.
Hi Stuart, I have given you an avenue of search.Associated ideas contribute to suggest the truth of design.
Associated theological ideas linked together with “The God Numbers”
provide evidence that there is an intelligent source originating outside of time.
Scientifically speaking: “The Effect”(The Bible=63) PROVES “The Cause”(YHVH=63)!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 12 2012,13:13) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
Hey Stuart,Notice how Wakeup also speaks in the same manor as I?
I'll resist the temptation you dangle before me…Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:01)
But I suspect a reason for you posting here is that you need your belief in woo confirmed by others with the same delusion, because you know that what you believe about men walking again after judicial execution and a man being born without a biological father is ridiculous.
Hi Stuart,You believe life began as self replication,
but believe it to be impossible now?Isn't that a bit of a 'dichotomy'? Like you believing there is a chance
that “God Exists”, yet still trying to persuade others to believe it isn't so? I'm
only saying this so you can evaluate the rational you use, while calling others 'deluded'.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:29) Quote (Ed J @ April 12 2012,13:13) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
Hey Stuart,Notice how Wakeup also speaks in the same manor as I?
I'll resist the temptation you dangle before me…Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:01) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) No one can prove God exist,for he is spirit,of a higher dimension.
OK. I’ll go on assuming you are deluded then. Your invocation of pseudoscientific language here helps confirm it for me.Quote But Jesus said;SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND.
How can you know anything about what Jesus said? If you handed in a history essay on the sayings of Jesus and their impact in ancient Palestine, and you cited only the gospels as your references then no teacher of history in his right mind should give you a pass grade.That last bit represents your discourtesy on two counts: you feel the need to shout this nonsense at me by capitalising it, and you are prostyletising at me again. You are assuming that I will go along with your assertion that there is something to find. But you still haven’t said what it is.
Quote One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
The more I read scripture, and I’ve read quite a lot of it now, the more I see that this god thing is a human invention. I don’t think you have joined the dots as well as I have.Quote Most christians failed to seek him in truth,therefore never come to the stage of truly understanding; who, or what, and why?
The No True Scotsman fallacy, written as a religious platitude.But I suspect a reason for you posting here is that you need your belief in woo confirmed by others with the same delusion, because you know that what you believe about men walking again after judicial execution and a man being born without a biological father is ridiculous.
You rationalise that the process you have gone through means you “know god”, and you are special, and even others who have apparently swallowed the absurdities of christianity still aren’t as special as you.
Quote Jesus said in luke 10:22.—no man knoweth who the son is but the father,and who the father is but the son,and he to whom the son will reveal him.
…which is basically christianity’s statement of totalitarianism. When discussing different religions many christians are inclined to say that all those other differently-named gods worshipped by other people are actually just different ways of thinking about the one god that they say exists. So that’s good then, except you get statements like Luke 10:22, which basically says that the only access to this one god is through the messianic figure of this particular religion. This is the only way, there is no other. Probably in your family and in mine there were people who went to war to fight totalitarianism, but here you are asserting the totalitarianism of your own belief system.These religious systems can’t all be right, can they. Some must be wrong, or at least that’s what your Book of Talking Snakes says. Does your scripture tell you that christianity is right, and all the others are wrong? It would say that, wouldn’t it.
Quote There is one way to find God is by seeking the scriptures.
That’s your opinion, but many christians in the world would disagree. This is not a very nice hobby you follow, is it, with so much bitter disagreement between fellow hobbyists.Quote There is such as the super natural,most do believe in the super natural.
Aren’t you special then.Stuart
Hi stu.This is a debate,I am not trying to sell you anything.
You obviously believe that you evolved from that picture you have on the top left.I came from noah,and Noah came from Adam.
But strangely enough You are picturing us believers as chimps with eyes closed.Is that not a bit strange?
No man can come to me (Jesus) unles the father draws him.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you.These are words of wisdom and once again has come to my experience.
Prove your doctrine to us,prove that there is no God.
Wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ April 12 2012,13:39) Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:01)
But I suspect a reason for you posting here is that you need your belief in woo confirmed by others with the same delusion, because you know that what you believe about men walking again after judicial execution and a man being born without a biological father is ridiculous.
Hi Stuart,You believe life began as self replication,
but believe it to be impossible now?
If by life you mean the first replicating cell, then no it is not impossible for cells to spontaneously form. But there are two factors that will stop us seeing it. Firstly the microscope has only existed for a few hundred years but it might be that the chemical processes that produce cells take on average tens or hundreds of thousands of years to produce some kind of replicating cell, in other words much longer than many human lifetimes of watching may be required, and secondly even if a new primitive replicating cell came into existence today, there are so many microorganisms everywhere that the chemicals that make the new cell would become lunch for an already existing life form. We won't see the new cells because microorganisms are everywhere that we are.It is highly likely that the first cell(s) formed near sea floor vents which allowed the cells to use an energy system based on sulfur, so unless we monitor the chemistry around lots of those vents (they're a long way down!) we won't actually see this for ourselves.
It's completely possible that new variations of life emerge spontaneously all the time. The chances of us being there at the time to see it are virtually zero.
Stuart
Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,17:37) Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:01) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) No one can prove God exist,for he is spirit,of a higher dimension.
OK. I’ll go on assuming you are deluded then. Your invocation of pseudoscientific language here helps confirm it for me.Quote But Jesus said;SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND.
How can you know anything about what Jesus said? If you handed in a history essay on the sayings of Jesus and their impact in ancient Palestine, and you cited only the gospels as your references then no teacher of history in his right mind should give you a pass grade.That last bit represents your discourtesy on two counts: you feel the need to shout this nonsense at me by capitalising it, and you are prostyletising at me again. You are assuming that I will go along with your assertion that there is something to find. But you still haven’t said what it is.
Quote One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
The more I read scripture, and I’ve read quite a lot of it now, the more I see that this god thing is a human invention. I don’t think you have joined the dots as well as I have.Quote Most christians failed to seek him in truth,therefore never come to the stage of truly understanding; who, or what, and why?
The No True Scotsman fallacy, written as a religious platitude.But I suspect a reason for you posting here is that you need your belief in woo confirmed by others with the same delusion, because you know that what you believe about men walking again after judicial execution and a man being born without a biological father is ridiculous.
You rationalise that the process you have gone through means you “know god”, and you are special, and even others who have apparently swallowed the absurdities of christianity still aren’t as special as you.
Quote Jesus said in luke 10:22.—no man knoweth who the son is but the father,and who the father is but the son,and he to whom the son will reveal him.
…which is basically christianity’s statement of totalitarianism. When discussing different religions many christians are inclined to say that all those other differently-named gods worshipped by other people are actually just different ways of thinking about the one god that they say exists. So that’s good then, except you get statements like Luke 10:22, which basically says that the only access to this one god is through the messianic figure of this particular religion. This is the only way, there is no other. Probably in your family and in mine there were people who went to war to fight totalitarianism, but here you are asserting the totalitarianism of your own belief system.These religious systems can’t all be right, can they. Some must be wrong, or at least that’s what your Book of Talking Snakes says. Does your scripture tell you that christianity is right, and all the others are wrong? It would say that, wouldn’t it.
Quote There is one way to find God is by seeking the scriptures.
That’s your opinion, but many christians in the world would disagree. This is not a very nice hobby you follow, is it, with so much bitter disagreement between fellow hobbyists.Quote There is such as the super natural,most do believe in the super natural.
Aren’t you special then.Stuart
Hi stu.This is a debate,I am not trying to sell you anything.
That’s good, because I’m not buying any of it.Quote You obviously believe that you evolved from that picture you have on the top left.
That’s not an ancestral species, it’s a cousin species.Quote I came from noah,and Noah came from Adam. But strangely enough You are picturing us believers as chimps with eyes closed. Is that not a bit strange?
Not as strange as basing your ancestry on mythological stories of events that never happened. There has never been a time when only two humans existed, or a time when only eight humans were alive, or a time when only two (or seven) of any animal species walked the earth.My use of a chimpanzee photograph is somewhat in the manner of solidarity with our chimpanzee cousins, because they are under threat of extinction by the actions of humans, and because creationists have no idea about the fact of common ancestry making the face plant an appropriate gesture for our cousin to exhibit.
Quote No man can come to me (Jesus) unles the father draws him. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you.
Oh dear, poor you. Your poor god, whatever it is. You’re all victims of these nasty skeptics who won’t just believe your woo without question.Quote These are words of wisdom and once again has come to my experience.
For an idea to be worth anything it should be able to stand up to robust discussion. Is christianity so weak an idea that you have to protect it with platitudes?Quote Prove your doctrine to us,prove that there is no God.
Why do I need to prove it? All I have to do is assert it, because that’s all you’ve done.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,23:11) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,17:37) Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,13:01) Quote (Wakeup @ April 12 2012,11:47) No one can prove God exist,for he is spirit,of a higher dimension.
OK. I’ll go on assuming you are deluded then. Your invocation of pseudoscientific language here helps confirm it for me.Quote But Jesus said;SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND.
How can you know anything about what Jesus said? If you handed in a history essay on the sayings of Jesus and their impact in ancient Palestine, and you cited only the gospels as your references then no teacher of history in his right mind should give you a pass grade.That last bit represents your discourtesy on two counts: you feel the need to shout this nonsense at me by capitalising it, and you are prostyletising at me again. You are assuming that I will go along with your assertion that there is something to find. But you still haven’t said what it is.
Quote One can find God by seeking the scriptures and putting the dots together to make the big picture,and if one has reach that stage,one can see God with ones understanding.
The more I read scripture, and I’ve read quite a lot of it now, the more I see that this god thing is a human invention. I don’t think you have joined the dots as well as I have.Quote Most christians failed to seek him in truth,therefore never come to the stage of truly understanding; who, or what, and why?
The No True Scotsman fallacy, written as a religious platitude.But I suspect a reason for you posting here is that you need your belief in woo confirmed by others with the same delusion, because you know that what you believe about men walking again after judicial execution and a man being born without a biological father is ridiculous.
You rationalise that the process you have gone through means you “know god”, and you are special, and even others who have apparently swallowed the absurdities of christianity still aren’t as special as you.
Quote Jesus said in luke 10:22.—no man knoweth who the son is but the father,and who the father is but the son,and he to whom the son will reveal him.
…which is basically christianity’s statement of totalitarianism. When discussing different religions many christians are inclined to say that all those other differently-named gods worshipped by other people are actually just different ways of thinking about the one god that they say exists. So that’s good then, except you get statements like Luke 10:22, which basically says that the only access to this one god is through the messianic figure of this particular religion. This is the only way, there is no other. Probably in your family and in mine there were people who went to war to fight totalitarianism, but here you are asserting the totalitarianism of your own belief system.These religious systems can’t all be right, can they. Some must be wrong, or at least that’s what your Book of Talking Snakes says. Does your scripture tell you that christianity is right, and all the others are wrong? It would say that, wouldn’t it.
Quote There is one way to find God is by seeking the scriptures.
That’s your opinion, but many christians in the world would disagree. This is not a very nice hobby you follow, is it, with so much bitter disagreement between fellow hobbyists.Quote There is such as the super natural,most do believe in the super natural.
Aren’t you special then.Stuart
Hi stu.This is a debate,I am not trying to sell you anything.
That’s good, because I’m not buying any of it.Quote You obviously believe that you evolved from that picture you have on the top left.
That’s not an ancestral species, it’s a cousin species.Quote I came from noah,and Noah came from Adam. But strangely enough You are picturing us believers as chimps with eyes closed. Is that not a bit strange?
Not as strange as basing your ancestry on mythological stories of events that never happened. There has never been a time when only two humans existed, or a time when only eight humans were alive, or a time when only two (or seven) of any animal species walked the earth.My use of a chimpanzee photograph is somewhat in the manner of solidarity with our chimpanzee cousins, because they are under threat of extinction by the actions of humans, and because creationists have no idea about the fact of common ancestry making the face plant an appropriate gesture for our cousin to exhibit.
Quote No man can come to me (Jesus) unles the father draws him. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you.
Oh dear, poor you. Your poor god, whatever it is. You’re all victims of these nasty skeptics who won’t just believe your woo without question.Quote These are words of wisdom and once again has come to my experience.
For an idea to be worth anything it should be able to stand up to robust discussion. Is christianity so weak an idea tha
t you have to protect it with platitudes?Quote Prove your doctrine to us,prove that there is no God.
Why do I need to prove it? All I have to do is assert it, because that’s all you’ve done.Stuart
Hi Stu.How are you bro, but hang on a minute,how can I call you brother when we are of a different species.
1Cor 3:19.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
for it is written,he taketh the wise in their own craftiness.We are not just flesh and blood,we have a spirit in us that makes us all different and we have something that is called conscience,knowing good and evil.
If that spirit has gone out of a person; he is just dead meat,good for fertiliser.Every child born is given a conscience,so there is no excuse,for men not to know what is good and what is evil.
A person not believing in God has nothing to fear,that person can do all things what is best for him,not caring for others,why should he,what is the point. life is very short,just do the best you can to survive and dont worry about others.
There is no God so there is no judgement,just go for it.
To care for another is a waste of time,and foolish.Lets live and make merry and then we die.everyone for himself.But you dont live like that do you? but why? Life is very short.
dont waste time for others. If you do, then there is something wrong with your believe; you are contadicting your
believe.Ther is no God so we make our own laws,every one his own law, what is good for you is not necessary good for me.I steal, rape kill for my survival,who can judge me and say I am wrong?The judge? but the judge should also have the same view in life; survival.No God right? no commandments.No thy should not kill thing.Do to others,before others do unto you.
That will make a peaceful world indeed.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 13 2012,04:35) Hi Stu. How are you bro, but hang on a minute,how can I call you brother when we are of a different species.
Are you not homo sapiens? Certainly the bible tells you we cannot be thought the same. Probably god beliefs and religious ritual evolved in humans because of the totalitarian way it united tribal groups, making god belief a trait with a survival advantage. Religious institutions are like other biological systems that arise to punish non-conformity to group goals. Unfortunately being a sheep under a shepherd goes against other evolved human characteristics like curiosity.So it seems that you would classify me differently from you, although I wouldn’t. You are yet to develop a skeptical attitude to claims of woo and I have already developed such an attitude. Your religion tells you that such skepticism is wrong (for the same evolutionary reason that most religions say that) but that leaves you with the problem of why your god would instill such a strong sense of curiosity in us, and then punish us for expressing it. What kind of a sadistic creator would do that?
Quote 1Cor 3:19.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
for it is written,he taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
My point, indeed.Quote We are not just flesh and blood,we have a spirit in us that makes us all different and we have something that is called conscience,knowing good and evil. If that spirit has gone out of a person; he is just dead meat,good for fertiliser. Every child born is given a conscience,so there is no excuse,for men not to know what is good and what is evil.
I know, by my conscience, that christianity is wrong. I don’t use the religious platitude “evil”, although perhaps I could in an ironic sense in the case of christianity.Quote A person not believing in God has nothing to fear,that person can do all things what is best for him,not caring for others,why should he,what is the point. life is very short,just do the best you can to survive and dont worry about others.
You seem to be saying that everything that is good for my survival is bad for yours. You haven’t really thought about this, have you.Quote There is no God so there is no judgement,just go for it. To care for another is a waste of time,and foolish.Lets live and make merry and then we die.everyone for himself. But you dont live like that do you? but why? Life is very short.
dont waste time for others. If you do, then there is something wrong with your believe; you are contadicting your believe.Ther is no God so we make our own laws,every one his own law, what is good for you is not necessary good for me.I steal, rape kill for my survival,who can judge me and say I am wrong?
Are you saying that without god belief you would steal, rape and kill? How little you trust your conscience. What about not stealing because it is wrong? What about the ethical argument for not stealing? What about the principle rooted in human nature that you should not do to others what you would not have them do to you? (the bible doesn’t mention that before the gospels, and it doesn’t say it in those terms, and it is definitely not unique to Judeo-christian thinking).Quote The judge? but the judge should also have the same view in life; survival.No God right? no commandments.No thy should not kill thing.Do to others,before others do unto you.
That will make a peaceful world indeed.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. – Steven Weinberg.What makes a more peaceful world is secular democracy. Religious beliefs are not democratic, they are totalitarian. Christianity dominated Europe for 1300 years. Was that a time of peace? No, actually the data says we all live today at the most peaceful time in history. That peaceful time coincides with the rise of secular democracies. That means religion stays a private matter, and it also means the right to practice religions privately is protected.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,23:11) My use of a chimpanzee photograph Stuart
Hi Stuart,Sorry to inform you, but your Avatar is an orangutan, it is not a chimpanzee.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Probably god beliefs and religious ritual evolved in humans because of the totalitarian way it united tribal groups, making god belief a trait with a survival advantage. I would say this most likely happened later in humanity, the awe and wonder that must have been when man first saw nature's beauty and wrath. The only logic thought at this time would be to think that there was some greater source then humanity.
Quote That peaceful time coincides with the rise of secular democracies We are far off from peaceful times Stuart, secular or not of goverments do not change the mind set of some.
Quote (Ed J @ April 13 2012,11:45) Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,23:11) My use of a chimpanzee photograph Stuart
Hi Stuart,Sorry to inform you, but your Avatar is an orangutan, it is not a chimpanzee.
Good spotting Ed.Do you think wakeup has your observational skills?
Here it is closer-up:
No mistaking that orange fur.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 13 2012,15:51) Quote (Ed J @ April 13 2012,11:45) Quote (Stu @ April 12 2012,23:11) My use of a chimpanzee photograph Stuart
Hi Stuart,Sorry to inform you, but your Avatar is an orangutan, it is not a chimpanzee.
Good spotting Ed.Do you think wakeup has your observational skills?
Here it is closer-up:
No mistaking that orange fur.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I doubt it. I have an eye
for detail; kinda like Mr. Monk.That's how I discovered God's existence
was encoded into the English “AKJV Bible”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (princess @ April 13 2012,12:55) Quote Probably god beliefs and religious ritual evolved in humans because of the totalitarian way it united tribal groups, making god belief a trait with a survival advantage. I would say this most likely happened later in humanity, the awe and wonder that must have been when man first saw nature's beauty and wrath. The only logic thought at this time would be to think that there was some greater source then humanity.
We design things, so we assume design of course.Stu: That peaceful time coincides with the rise of secular democracies
Quote We are far off from peaceful times Stuart, secular or not of goverments do not change the mind set of some.
Indeed. But look where the violence is mainly (Wikipedia):
The obvious exception regarding secular democracy is India, one of the oldest and most established democracies. But they are in conflict with Pakistan, which isn't really a democracy, and definitely isn't secular.
Although they are both secular democracies, Mexico is highlighted for its drugs war and Colombia has an ongoing peasant revolt.
You're right, of course, there will always be violent conflict. But I maintain that if all regimes allowed universal suffrage and gave no public privilege to any religion the problems would significantly decrease.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 13 2012,11:08) Quote (Wakeup @ April 13 2012,04:35) Hi Stu. How are you bro, but hang on a minute,how can I call you brother when we are of a different species.
Are you not homo sapiens? Certainly the bible tells you we cannot be thought the same. Probably god beliefs and religious ritual evolved in humans because of the totalitarian way it united tribal groups, making god belief a trait with a survival advantage. Religious institutions are like other biological systems that arise to punish non-conformity to group goals. Unfortunately being a sheep under a shepherd goes against other evolved human characteristics like curiosity.So it seems that you would classify me differently from you, although I wouldn’t. You are yet to develop a skeptical attitude to claims of woo and I have already developed such an attitude. Your religion tells you that such skepticism is wrong (for the same evolutionary reason that most religions say that) but that leaves you with the problem of why your god would instill such a strong sense of curiosity in us, and then punish us for expressing it. What kind of a sadistic creator would do that?
Quote 1Cor 3:19.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
for it is written,he taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
My point, indeed.Quote We are not just flesh and blood,we have a spirit in us that makes us all different and we have something that is called conscience,knowing good and evil. If that spirit has gone out of a person; he is just dead meat,good for fertiliser. Every child born is given a conscience,so there is no excuse,for men not to know what is good and what is evil.
I know, by my conscience, that christianity is wrong. I don’t use the religious platitude “evil”, although perhaps I could in an ironic sense in the case of christianity.Quote A person not believing in God has nothing to fear,that person can do all things what is best for him,not caring for others,why should he,what is the point. life is very short,just do the best you can to survive and dont worry about others.
You seem to be saying that everything that is good for my survival is bad for yours. You haven’t really thought about this, have you.Quote There is no God so there is no judgement,just go for it. To care for another is a waste of time,and foolish.Lets live and make merry and then we die.everyone for himself. But you dont live like that do you? but why? Life is very short.
dont waste time for others. If you do, then there is something wrong with your believe; you are contadicting your believe.Ther is no God so we make our own laws,every one his own law, what is good for you is not necessary good for me.I steal, rape kill for my survival,who can judge me and say I am wrong?
Are you saying that without god belief you would steal, rape and kill? How little you trust your conscience. What about not stealing because it is wrong? What about the ethical argument for not stealing? What about the principle rooted in human nature that you should not do to others what you would not have them do to you? (the bible doesn’t mention that before the gospels, and it doesn’t say it in those terms, and it is definitely not unique to Judeo-christian thinking).Quote The judge? but the judge should also have the same view in life; survival.No God right? no commandments.No thy should not kill thing.Do to others,before others do unto you.
That will make a peaceful world indeed.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. – Steven Weinberg.What makes a more peaceful world is secular democracy. Religious beliefs are not democratic, they are totalitarian. Christianity dominated Europe for 1300 years. Was that a time of peace? No, actually the data says we all live today at the most peaceful time in history. That peaceful time coincides with the rise of secular democracies. That means religion stays a private matter, and it also means the right to practice religions privately is protected.
Stuart
Hi Stu.Thank you for your respond.
All religions are man made,and christianity as it is; is also man made using Gods word to deceive the sheep,and for material gain.
Worshipping God in truth,has nothing to do with religion; It is between God and the individual, and these individuals come together worshipping and also seeking the scriptures.
These groups of people are all peace loving,God fearing,and working towards righteousness,but non are perfect; only the son of God is perfect.
Peace can only come to the world,if every person has that peace inside them. This is what God is working on now for generations. From one generation to the next,untill it is enough according to Gods plan.
Religions has indeed brought a lot of misery in this world;but we should not blame the good book for it. Blame the wolves in sheeps clothing.
Without God,there is no fear for judgement,so that means that we are free to please our selves,for what is the purpose for being good? For life is very short.Why should one suffer for another?This is foolishness.
Just imagine a world with no fear of a God that judges; they will behave like children with no parents to guide them.
Greed is also a major factor in this world today,and yesterday.For greed is like a fire,it will keep on burning as long as there is fuel,and it will grow bigger and bigger,untill it dies.We can not live without God; keos will set in, in no time.
The law of the jungle will set in quickly.we can observe this even today, the big take the small,technology has improved greatly; but men can not bring peace,and morality has gone down the tube.I for one dont believe in religion. But I believe in a creator.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 13 2012,22:03) All religions are man made,and christianity as it is; is also man made using Gods word to deceive the sheep,and for material gain. Worshipping God in truth,has nothing to do with religion; It is between God and the individual, and these individuals come together worshipping and also seeking the scriptures… Religions has indeed brought a lot of misery in this world;but we should not blame the good book for it. Blame the wolves in sheeps clothing.
I think you might find the dictionary is against you there. As soon as you mention a god in seriousness you are talking about a religion, be it your own one. But of course you are right that there are people who will find any excuse to fleece others.Your scripture mandates tithing, so that aspect is part of “god’s word” too, where the desperately poor people of South Auckland (since this is a website originating in New Zealand, but I’m sure you have many Australian equivalents) give enormous amounts of money to their churches then find it hard to feel their children properly. This would not be happening without your “word of god”.
Quote These groups of people are all peace loving,God fearing,and working towards righteousness,but non are perfect; only the son of God is perfect. Peace can only come to the world,if every person has that peace inside them. This is what God is working on now for generations. From one generation to the next,untill it is enough according to Gods plan.
Here’s a question to test your scriptural knowledge: Excepting the flood myth, which single old testament smiting event supposedly enacted by this alleged god of yours caused the most deaths, and how many deaths was it?Quote Without God,there is no fear for judgement,
Happily there is no evidence of either the god or the judgment.Quote so that means that we are free to please our selves,for what is the purpose for being good? For life is very short.Why should one suffer for another?This is foolishness.
I think it isn’t foolishness at all. Why do atheists (or any humans) get a sense of satisfaction in being altruistic? Why are there far fewer atheists in prison than christians by population proportion?Quote Just imagine a world with no fear of a God that judges; they will behave like children with no parents to guide them.
You may be a mindless sheep with a need for an eternal 24/7 supervisor that tells you with whom you may sleep, and in what position, and demands love on fear of eternal punishment, but I don’t share this need in order to live an ethical and fulfilling live. Your conspiracy theory of constant surveillance by a totalitarian regime of Imaginary Friends is an abomination.Quote Greed is also a major factor in this world today,and yesterday.For greed is like a fire,it will keep on burning as long as there is fuel,and it will grow bigger and bigger,untill it dies… I for one dont believe in religion. But I believe in a creator.
Yes, why did your creator god insert greed into humans?Quote We can not live without God; keos will set in, in no time. The law of the jungle will set in quickly.we can observe this even today, the big take the small,technology has improved greatly; but men can not bring peace,and morality has gone down the tube.
I think you perhaps don’t appreciate how much things are better than they ever have been in recorded history. Those who have collected and studied the data carefully have concluded that this is the most peaceful time humans have ever known. I would also reject your claim of decaying morals. Certainly there is decaying interest in christianity, but I would contend that christianity is immoral and this trend of abandoning christian beliefs is actually increasing the morality in the world.Stuart
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