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Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,13:38) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57)
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Hi Stuart,You need “three witnesses” to establish a matter,
Ok then, so Richard Dawkins, JS Haldane and Stephen Gould are “three witnesses” who establish the matter of fact of evolution by natural selection.Of course they didn't establish it by just claiming it. There's evidence and everything!
Stuart
Hi Stuart,One “species” does not turn into another;
where's your evidence of this claim?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,15:42) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,13:38) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57)
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Hi Stuart,You need “three witnesses” to establish a matter,
Ok then, so Richard Dawkins, JS Haldane and Stephen Gould are “three witnesses” who establish the matter of fact of evolution by natural selection.Of course they didn't establish it by just claiming it. There's evidence and everything!
Stuart
Hi Stuart,One “species” does not turn into another;
where's your evidence of this claim?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You don't really want to know. So I don't think I shall be telling you.If you really did want to know, you wouldn't have to ask me.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,16:12) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,15:42) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,13:38) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57)
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Hi Stuart,You need “three witnesses” to establish a matter,
Ok then, so Richard Dawkins, JS Haldane and Stephen Gould are “three witnesses” who establish the matter of fact of evolution by natural selection.Of course they didn't establish it by just claiming it. There's evidence and everything!
Stuart
Hi Stuart,One “species” does not turn into another;
where's your evidence of this claim?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You don't really want to know. So I don't think I shall be telling you.If you really did want to know, you wouldn't have to ask me.
Stuart
What a cop-out!Quote I would flip this question around and ask: what are you doing today to improve this world and this life? If you are like most religious people, you don't even see much reason for doing so, because you view this life as worthless. That is how religion hurts us all. Anyone going to take a shot at answering this one?
Quote I believe that the first KJV delivered to the world was the one God intended. We can either accept or reject. It's our choice. I believe that King James had a deadline to meet and did not really care what God had intended. One of the worse translation of the original text.
Quote (journey42 @ April 15 2012,12:58) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 15 2012,04:26) Hi Journey, The Hebrew word translated as take hold was taphas.
In almost every time this word was used in the bible in relation to people, it meant to take against their will, or sieze.
I see no reason to believe that it meant anything different in this particular case.It most certainly suggests rape or force.
Tim
Hi TimThank you for that. I don't see it that way, as it says ….and if “they” be found. It looks like clear messing around to me, but you are entitled to your opinion.
In the other case, the man who raped the betrothed woman, was put to death.
The NT however, does not follow all these old rules and traditions. The old law was there to serve a purpose for the Israelites only, not the world. They had strict laws to obey because they had to be a separate nation, and God made them an example. Their punishments were dished out straight away, for the sake of the good. Whereas now, there is mercy, if one want to repent,…… and for the others who wish to continue in these bad acts, judgement will be reserved for the time appointed.
So the pedophiles and rapist of today are just to be let loose and do as the please to others while here on this earth, but hey don't you worry kids, when judgement day comes they will get their's.I am sure Stantorum will have your vote.
Quote (princess @ April 22 2012,14:10) Quote I believe that the first KJV delivered to the world was the one God intended. We can either accept or reject. It's our choice. I believe that King James had a deadline to meet and did not really care what God had intended. One of the worse translation of the original text.
Hi Princess,'Opinions' and “Truth” are two different things. …do you have any proof of YOUR assertion?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote One “species” does not turn into another;
where's your evidence of this claim?During the mornings here at the house………….before I have had my morning coffee
Quote (princess @ April 22 2012,14:10) Quote I believe that the first KJV delivered to the world was the one God intended. We can either accept or reject. It's our choice. I believe that King James had a deadline to meet and did not really care what God had intended. One of the worse translation of the original text.
Princess,Quote I believe Is of no consequence
Quote that King James had a deadline to meet Yes, King James might have, but the most renown and respected translators/scholars employed for this task did not. They took the written Word very seriously and though they may have been “urged” to make it speedy, they in no way rushed it at all. There were adequate employs to do the job efficiently and within a time frame acceptable to James.
Quote and did not really care what God had intended. King James can not be classified as Christian when one looks at his actions that were well known and recorded. But regardless of what King James thought/did/believed, you miss a very basic truth..King James did not transcribe the bible himself…thus, his opinions etc played absolutely no bearing on the outcome concerning the validity of the text.
Quote One of the worse translation of the original text Did you know there are only two streams of Bible translation, that of Alexandria and that of Antioch. Only one Bible today is based exclusively on extant manuscripts from Antioch. KJV 1611.
Do you understand the importance of this?
Obviously not.Why is the 1611 KJV bible so trustworthy? Because, incredibly, all the other Bible versions are based on a few Greek manuscripts which can be traced back to Alexandria in Egypt.
This came about through the publication in 1881 of a new consolidated or critical version of the New Testament in Greek which was assembled by two English scholars, Westcott and Hort, and given the stamp of approval by the British establishment.
Unfortunately both Westcott and Hort were unbelievers with a strong leaning toward Catholic theology. Moreover, both were actively involved in spiritualism and the occult. Not surprisingly, therefore, their critical text reflects their personal, idiosyncratic interpretation of the Bible.
As a result all modern translations, such as the NIV, which are based on the Westcott and Hort text, are at best a watered down version of the true gospel. The 1611 Authorised King James Bible is the only one which retains and conveys the true power of God’s word.
Are you aware that the KJV 1611 was the first bible that went global? That is, the first time that Gods written Word was made available to the Gentiles? The first time men & women could handle and own without persecution from the Catholics, could handle and own and learn on a personal level!!
There is no other bible on the planet that even comes close to its validity…even no other KJV version or otherwise…ONLY the 1611 is from God…who He used to bring this about is non consequential.
For God uses the wicked and the good for His own good purposes.Quote (princess @ April 22 2012,14:18) Quote (journey42 @ April 15 2012,12:58) Quote (TimothyVI @ April 15 2012,04:26) Hi Journey, The Hebrew word translated as take hold was taphas.
In almost every time this word was used in the bible in relation to people, it meant to take against their will, or sieze.
I see no reason to believe that it meant anything different in this particular case.It most certainly suggests rape or force.
Tim
Hi TimThank you for that. I don't see it that way, as it says ….and if “they” be found. It looks like clear messing around to me, but you are entitled to your opinion.
In the other case, the man who raped the betrothed woman, was put to death.
The NT however, does not follow all these old rules and traditions. The old law was there to serve a purpose for the Israelites only, not the world. They had strict laws to obey because they had to be a separate nation, and God made them an example. Their punishments were dished out straight away, for the sake of the good. Whereas now, there is mercy, if one want to repent,…… and for the others who wish to continue in these bad acts, judgement will be reserved for the time appointed.
So the pedophiles and rapist of today are just to be let loose and do as the please to others while here on this earth, but hey don't you worry kids, when judgement day comes they will get their's.I am sure Stantorum will have your vote.
Quote So the pedophiles and rapist of today are just to be let loose and do as the please to others while here on this earth, but hey don't you worry kids, when judgement day comes they will get their's. I am sure Stantorum will have your vote.
It's easy to mock God.
It's harder to understand Him unless you seek Him out in truth.
This anger based relationship you have towards Him is one of ignorance and “poor me” attitude extended as a veil pretending to cover the “fates” of others as your main driving concern..
But it is not.Oh, i realize that i don't know you, but i do know your rehashed baseless arguments, which, form a solid picture regarding the mindset of the one using them, which in turn, means that i do indeed know you.
And you are wrong as wrong can be about God and His reasons.
If you tell me, “oh, but i have read the bible, not only that, i have studied this and that etc etc…
My advice would be, since you only mock the God of the bible, to go start again, and this time start without prejudice, for you obviously ignore the reasons WHY God not only allows but also EXPLAINED..explaining WHY He has not intervened, concerning the things that were and are of which you mock Him for….for now…go and start again.
For in your misdirected rage, which caused you prejudice, you obviously understood nothing.Quote (princess @ April 23 2012,13:01) Quote One “species” does not turn into another;
where's your evidence of this claim?During the mornings here at the house………….before I have had my morning coffee
Hi Princess.You seem to be bitter towards God; and I am confused; why are you angry at someone that you dont believe exists?
Can you explain?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 28 2012,22:47) You seem to be bitter towards God; and I am confused; why are you angry at someone that you dont believe exists?
Some can become angry at a fantasy concept. But the question really is why are you, one who actually believes in it, not angry at the genocidal and obviously unjust god of the Jewish bible, the one that demands your love on pain of punishment?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 29 2012,12:21) Quote (Wakeup @ April 28 2012,22:47) You seem to be bitter towards God; and I am confused; why are you angry at someone that you dont believe exists?
Some can become angry at a fantasy concept. But the question really is why are you, one who actually believes in it, not angry at the genocidal and obviously unjust god of the Jewish bible, the one that demands your love on pain of punishment?Stuart
Stu.You see God as being unjust,only because you dont know him.
I know him and understand why he does things; and its all for our good.Just as a parent punishing his naughty child with: one week no tv; looks and feels unfair,but it is all for the good.
The child can not see that.So how can I get angry with God?He does it because he loves his chosen ones; and for their sake, evil will be destroyed.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 29 2012,13:16) Quote (Stu @ April 29 2012,12:21) Quote (Wakeup @ April 28 2012,22:47) You seem to be bitter towards God; and I am confused; why are you angry at someone that you dont believe exists?
Some can become angry at a fantasy concept. But the question really is why are you, one who actually believes in it, not angry at the genocidal and obviously unjust god of the Jewish bible, the one that demands your love on pain of punishment?Stuart
Stu.You see God as being unjust,only because you dont know him.
No, I think you have failed to see the point again. I don't see any god as being anything, what I do see is the disconnection between the sycophantic fawning admiration for some Imaginary Being, and the claims made of it in the scripture which describes this same Imaginary Being as a sadistic tyrant, the monster that killed Uzzah when he was only trying to help, and that supposedly imbued humans with quite intense curiosity then punished them for expressing it.If you feel that I have in some way misrepresented YOUR god, then I am happy to acknowledge that because I understand there is a different god for each christian. But you might understand in turn that it is quite difficult to keep track of all those different descriptions of all those different Imaginary Friends, so perhaps you can bear with me as I try to remember the details of your specific one.
Quote I know him and understand why he does things; and its all for our good.
Please explain how killing Uzzah was just, when he was only trying to help. Would you tell Uzzah it was for his own good?Quote Just as a parent punishing his naughty child with: one week no tv; looks and feels unfair,but it is all for the good.
The child can not see that.
But you can, apparently. So please tell us how the killing of Uzzah was just.Quote So how can I get angry with God?He does it because he loves his chosen ones; and for their sake, evil will be destroyed.
May I presume you believe in free will to accept or reject this god you believe in? Is it really free will when you have to choose between compulsory love of this god with simultaneous fear of it, and the alternative option which is the “free” rejection of the god, which then promises you some kind of eternal punishment or destruction for rejecting it…depending on which christian god you follow? How is that a free choice? Tell me you would not be very angry at your bank manager if he offered you the same kind of options.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 29 2012,15:31) Quote (Wakeup @ April 29 2012,13:16) Quote (Stu @ April 29 2012,12:21) Quote (Wakeup @ April 28 2012,22:47) You seem to be bitter towards God; and I am confused; why are you angry at someone that you dont believe exists?
Some can become angry at a fantasy concept. But the question really is why are you, one who actually believes in it, not angry at the genocidal and obviously unjust god of the Jewish bible, the one that demands your love on pain of punishment?Stuart
Stu.You see God as being unjust,only because you dont know him.
No, I think you have failed to see the point again. I don't see any god as being anything, what I do see is the disconnection between the sycophantic fawning admiration for some Imaginary Being, and the claims made of it in the scripture which describes this same Imaginary Being as a sadistic tyrant, the monster that killed Uzzah when he was only trying to help, and that supposedly imbued humans with quite intense curiosity then punished them for expressing it.If you feel that I have in some way misrepresented YOUR god, then I am happy to acknowledge that because I understand there is a different god for each christian. But you might understand in turn that it is quite difficult to keep track of all those different descriptions of all those different Imaginary Friends, so perhaps you can bear with me as I try to remember the details of your specific one.
Quote I know him and understand why he does things; and its all for our good.
Please explain how killing Uzzah was just, when he was only trying to help. Would you tell Uzzah it was for his own good?Quote Just as a parent punishing his naughty child with: one week no tv; looks and feels unfair,but it is all for the good.
The child can not see that.
But you can, apparently. So please tell us how the killing of Uzzah was just.Quote So how can I get angry with God?He does it because he loves his chosen ones; and for their sake, evil will be destroyed.
May I presume you believe in free will to accept or reject this god you believe in? Is it really free will when you have to choose between compulsory love of this god with simultaneous fear of it, and the alternative option which is the “free” rejection of the god, which then promises you some kind of eternal punishment or destruction for rejecting it…depending on which christian god you follow? How is that a free choice? Tell me you would not be very angry at your bank manager if he offered you the same kind of options.Stuart
Stu.I make electric guitars in my free time,and I made about 50 of them so far.
If I dont like one particular one; then I simply pull it apart and use the parts for the next one.And I discard the rejected one: am I being unfair to that guitar? For I made it,can I not destroy it? is it not my right?
So can God; he destroys whom he wants. according to his judgement.
Can anybody say to him; hey what are you doing? no.
He made us,and he can do what he likes with us.Regarding Uzzah and the ark of the covenant; the most holy vessel on earth at that time; The law was very strict;that no one can touch it or he dies.The power must be enormous.
If I tried to save my friend from electrocution,by touching him,I also will die no matter what the motif was,for good or bad.
Uzzahs motif was indeed good,but he touched it,and he died.
If I cross a bussy freeway trying to save a child; Both of us will die,no matter what the motif.I hope your eyes will open up a little regarding this awesome God.The more you resist him,the more he will pull you.
And he is stronger than you.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 29 2012,16:21) I make electric guitars in my free time,and I made about 50 of them so far.
If I dont like one particular one; then I simply pull it apart and use the parts for the next one.And I discard the rejected one: am I being unfair to that guitar? For I made it,can I not destroy it? is it not my right?
So can God; he destroys whom he wants. according to his judgement.
Can anybody say to him; hey what are you doing? no.
He made us,and he can do what he likes with us.
If you think that pulling a guitar apart is akin to genocide, then I think your judgment is somewhat unreliable. You have articulated some good reasons to reject this god concept as immoral.Quote Regarding Uzzah and the ark of the covenant; the most holy vessel on earth at that time; The law was very strict;that no one can touch it or he dies.The power must be enormous. If I tried to save my friend from electrocution,by touching him,I also will die no matter what the motif was,for good or bad.
Uzzahs motif was indeed good,but he touched it,and he died.
If I cross a bussy freeway trying to save a child; Both of us will die,no matter what the motif.
So your reason for Uzzah being killed is that god was powerless to prevent it in this case.Quote I hope your eyes will open up a little regarding this awesome God.The more you resist him,the more he will pull you.
And he is stronger than you.
I disagree that strength represents ethical good.Stuart
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