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Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 16 2012,05:13) Quote (Ed J @ April 15 2012,02:25) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 15 2012,06:00) The KJV uses archaic language that is sometimes hard to understand in contemporary English. (The verse is Leviticus is a perfect example of this.) If you are a KJV only person, then you have a whole different set of problems, not the least of which is why there are verses in the KJV that don't show up in any Greek manuscript until the 14th century, (i.e. 1 John 5:7-8). Your worship of the KJV is unwarranted.
Hi WIT,Do you purposefully misappropriate the truth or out of ignorance?
God bless
Ed J
Please do correct the record. What did I get wrong, and what is the actual truth?
Hi WIT,1) There is “NO” 'set of problems'!
2) 1John 5:7 was slipped in
on the earliest of copies.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ April 16 2012,09:24) Quote (Wakeup @ April 16 2012,02:03) Quote (Stu @ April 15 2012,22:16) Quote (Wakeup @ April 14 2012,06:02) he only thing that God would accept,
and thus part of God's plan, was the torture and human sacrifice of his only begotten son.The last and most important sacrifice has to be a human,not an animal.
And if the Romans had decided not to execute Jesus, then a different story would have been invented. Or a different martyr would have been chosen to write about.In believing this all to be actually true, I can't decide if it's your immorality or your inability to do joined-up-thinking that is the greater betrayal of your basic humanity.
The mythology of Adam and Eve has been shown independently by different scientific disciplines to be a fiction, and so the christian claim of some original rebellion is based on a made-up story. That counts as a lie, given how often it is repeated in earnestness. So the disease that your scripture tells you needs atonement doesn't exist. And yet the cure for this non-disease is prescribed nonetheless, and you have to do the supremely immoral act of believing in a human sacrifice.
You desire to be the slave of a bloodthirsty tyrant, one that also simultaneously requires that you both fear it and love it, and that anyway apparently doesn't exist. Why do you torture yourself unnecessarily? Does that masochism make the christian hobby more interesting?
Stuart
Hi Stu.May I ask you a question?
What is the purpose of life, and What do you live for?
wakeup.
Before I bang on about that (the brief answers to your questions are 42, and and new learning, respectively), perhaps you could address some of the points I raised in my post.Stuart
Stu.Can you just answer that question?
Explain to us what you are living for?wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ April 16 2012,12:11) Hi WIT, 1) There is “NO” 'set of problems'!
2) 1John 5:7 was slipped in
on the earliest of copies.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Really, Ed? That's your “correction”?Here are a few of the problems that you say don't exist.
* KJV incorrectly uses the term 'Holy Ghost' instead of 'Holy Spirit' several times throughout the NT.
* KJV translates the word for Passover as Easter in Acts!
* The underlying Greek text for the KJV is poorly edited as is evidenced by the fact that it is filled with typographical errors.
* KJV adds words and phrases that are not supported by the Greek text.As for 1 John 5:7-8, why don't you actually provide the date of the earliest Greek manuscript in which it was found?
In any case, all translations of the bible contain the same fundamental problem: they are books written by ancient men with ancient (and false) ideas about the universe.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 15 2012,21:03) Hi Stu. May I ask you a question?
What is the purpose of life, and What do you live for?
wakeup.
I realize that you addressed this question to Stu, but I can't help but point out how a silly a question this is.Do you have family and/or friends that you love?
Do you have hobbies that you enjoy?
Do you do work that is fulfilling in anyway?
Do you have places that you wish to go or things that you wish to experience?In short, do you enjoy life?
If so, then you understand on a fundamental level the reason for living: to enjoy the few years of life that we know that we have.
If not, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.
You may think that going to heaven when you die gives meaning to your life, but it's the exact opposite. If an eternity in heaven is your ultimate destiny, than this short, difficult life will be eternally forgettable, but if what happens after you die is uncertain – or there is no “after” – than it makes it infinitely more important to make this life count.
I would flip this question around and ask: what are you doing today to improve this world and this life? If you are like most religious people, you don't even see much reason for doing so, because you view this life as worthless. That is how religion hurts us all.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 17 2012,02:47) Quote (Ed J @ April 16 2012,12:11) Hi WIT, There is “NO” 'set of problems'!
1John 5:7 was slipped in
on the earliest of copies.God bless
Ed J
Really, Ed? That's your “correction”?(1) Here are a few of the problems that you say don't exist.
(2) * KJV incorrectly uses the term 'Holy Ghost' instead of 'Holy Spirit' several times throughout the NT.
(3) * KJV translates the word for Passover as Easter in Acts!
* The underlying Greek text for the KJV is poorly edited as is evidenced by the fact that it is filled with typographical errors.
(4) * KJV adds words and phrases that are not supported by the Greek text.(5) As for 1 John 5:7-8, why don't you actually provide the date of the earliest Greek manuscript in which it was found?
(6) In any case, all translations of the bible contain the same fundamental problem: they are books written by ancient men with ancient (and false) ideas about the universe.
Hi WIT,1) I said: “they are not problems”.
2) Ghost and Spirit carry the same meanings.
3) King Herod celebrated Easter rather than Passover.
(both occurred during the same time-line)
4) Greek does not have indefinite articles.
5) “Textus Receptus” was a master copy of the Majority Texts;
if it was added in later on, it would not have been in the majority.
6) Opinion with no proof.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ April 16 2012,21:12) And if the Romans had decided not to execute Jesus, then a different story would have been invented. Or a different martyr would have been chosen to write about. In believing this all to be actually true, I can't decide if it's your immorality or your inability to do joined-up-thinking that is the greater betrayal of your basic humanity.
The mythology of Adam and Eve has been shown independently by different scientific disciplines to be a fiction, and so the christian claim of some original rebellion is based on a made-up story. That counts as a lie, given how often it is repeated in earnestness. So the disease that your scripture tells you needs atonement doesn't exist. And yet the cure for this non-disease is prescribed nonetheless, and you have to do the supremely immoral act of believing in a human sacrifice.
You desire to be the slave of a bloodthirsty tyrant, one that also simultaneously requires that you both fear it and love it, and that anyway apparently doesn't exist. Why do you torture yourself unnecessarily? Does that masochism make the christian hobby more interesting?
Stuart[/quote]
Hi Stu.May I ask you a question?
What is the purpose of life, and What do you live for?
wakeup.[/quote]
Before I bang on about that (the brief answers to your questions are 42, and and new learning, respectively), perhaps you could address some of the points I raised in my post.Stuart[/quote]
Stu.Can you just answer that question?
Explain to us what you are living for?wakeup.
The answer to life, the universe and everything is 42, as has been well known for over 30 years.The purpose of my existence, as we all define for ourselves, is a rambling statement which goes on about learning about the universe and the people that inhabit it, given that I am a member of a species that is, as far as we know, the only way that the universe can know itself. But your purpose could be different, of course. It's not something you can buy off the peg. Although I suspect some religious believers think they have.
Thank you for asking.
Now, how about those issues of scapegoating, not by putting your wrongoing into an animal and driving it off a cliff but by putting them into a human and having the ancient Romans electrocute him, er I mean crucify him? What about the person against whom you did the wrong? What about the fact that this religious “sin” concept is based on a lie?
Stuart
Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,02:04) “Textus Receptus” was a master copy of the Majority Texts;
if it was added in later on, it would not have been in the majority.
From the Holy Wikipedia concerning Erasmus, the author of the Textus Receptus:Quote Erasmus said the resulting work was “thrown headlong rather than edited” (“prœcipitatum fuit verius quam editum”). He fixed many but not all of the resulting mistakes in the second edition, published in 1519. The Comma, , does not appear until the third edition, published in 1522. Erasmus included the Comma, with commentary, in his paraphrase edition, first published in 1520.
…
Its absence from the first two editions provoked animosity among churchmen and scholars, led by Lopez de Zúñiga, one of the Complutensian editors. Erasmus is said to have replied to these critics that the Comma did not occur in any of the Greek manuscripts he could find, but that he would add it to future editions if it appeared in a single Greek manuscript.
…
“For the sake of his ideal Erasmus chose to avoid any occasion for slander rather than persisting in philological accuracy and thus condemning himself to impotence. That was the reason why Erasmus included the Comma Johanneum even though he remained convinced that it did not belong to the original text of l John.”As always, Ed, I am sure that you won't let the facts get in the way of your beliefs.
Hi WIT,
When it was added is irrelevant to the FACT that it was added.
Your acting like 'gotcha', when I already agreed
that 1John 5:7 was spurious.If you studied the bible as much as you study those
trying to prove it wrong you would be a lot better off.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,04:14) If you studied the bible as much as you study those
trying to prove it wrong you would be a lot better off.
If you knew anything about me, you would know that it was through studying the bible that I came to unbelief. I read it carefully, looking for divine inspiration, but instead, I found it to be exactly what you would expect from a book written by ancient men.Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 17 2012,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,04:14) If you studied the bible as much as you study those
trying to prove it wrong you would be a lot better off.
If you knew anything about me, you would know that it was through studying the bible that I came to unbelief. I read it carefully, looking for divine inspiration, but instead, I found it to be exactly what you would expect from a book written by ancient men.
Hi WIT,What book did you study? Was it the “AKJV Bible”? Or some other book?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,15:02) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 17 2012,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,04:14) If you studied the bible as much as you study those
trying to prove it wrong you would be a lot better off.
If you knew anything about me, you would know that it was through studying the bible that I came to unbelief. I read it carefully, looking for divine inspiration, but instead, I found it to be exactly what you would expect from a book written by ancient men.
Hi WIT,What book did you study? Was it the “AKJV Bible”? Or some other book?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I like to read the words of Jesus in the original Elizabethan English he spoke.Stuart
Hi Stuart,
You do make me *luff.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
*Luff is how Pierre says “laugh”.Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,10:02)
Hi WIT,What book did you study? Was it the “AKJV Bible”? Or some other book?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
What difference does it make? They all contain the same fundamental falsehoods, contradictions, and objectionable admonitions.For the record though, I grew up reading exclusively from the King James version.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 18 2012,04:12) Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2012,10:02)
Hi WIT,What book did you study? Was it the “AKJV Bible”? Or some other book?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
What difference does it make? They all contain the same fundamental falsehoods, contradictions, and objectionable admonitions.For the record though, I grew up reading exclusively from the King James version.
Hi WIT,You have yet to prove “any” of YOUR allegations.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J,
From a different thread:
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 12 2012,21:19) Ed J, I wrote:
Quote If I showed you verifiable evidence that the bible got something wrong, would you question the bible or the evidence?
…
The point is what you would do with such information.You responded with:
Quote Debunk it: because I can illustrate that it is your understanding that is in error, rather than the text. This demonstrates quite clearly that there is nothing that anyone can present to you that would change your mind about the bible. Therefore, it is truly a waste of time to do so. You will always believe, regardless of what the evidence suggests.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 19 2012,00:22) Ed J, From a different thread:
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 12 2012,21:19) Ed J, I wrote:
Quote If I showed you verifiable evidence that the bible got something wrong, would you question the bible or the evidence?
…
The point is what you would do with such information.You responded with:
Quote Debunk it: because I can illustrate that it is your understanding that is in error, rather than the text. This demonstrates quite clearly that there is nothing that anyone can present to you that would change your mind about the bible. Therefore, it is truly a waste of time to do so. You will always believe, regardless of what the evidence suggests.
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 19 2012,00:22) Ed J, From a different thread:
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 12 2012,21:19) Ed J, I wrote:
Quote If I showed you verifiable evidence that the bible got something wrong, would you question the bible or the evidence?
…
The point is what you would do with such information.You responded with:
Quote Debunk it: because I can illustrate that it is your understanding that is in error, rather than the text. This demonstrates quite clearly that there is nothing that anyone can present to you that would change your mind about the bible. Therefore, it is truly a waste of time to do so. You will always believe, regardless of what the evidence suggests.
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Stu.You can not prove there is no God, and you also can not prove the theory of evolution,You just believe; does that mean you are gullible?
Where is luci? Have they found luci?the transition between man and monkey. there is none.
What about the giant human skelletons they have found every where?(seek youtube for nephilims).wakeup.
Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57)
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Hi Stuart,You need “three witnesses” to establish a matter, Theomatics only provides one;
and only if it pertains to words written in the bible, NOT DOCTORED CONSTRUCTS.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,13:38) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57)
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Hi Stuart,You need “three witnesses” to establish a matter,
Ok then, so Richard Dawkins, JS Haldane and Stephen Gould are “three witnesses” who establish the matter of fact of evolution by natural selection.Of course they didn't establish it by just claiming it. There's evidence and everything!
Stuart
Quote (Wakeup @ April 19 2012,10:27) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2012,00:57) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 19 2012,00:22) Ed J, From a different thread:
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 12 2012,21:19) Ed J, I wrote:
Quote If I showed you verifiable evidence that the bible got something wrong, would you question the bible or the evidence?
…
The point is what you would do with such information.You responded with:
Quote Debunk it: because I can illustrate that it is your understanding that is in error, rather than the text. This demonstrates quite clearly that there is nothing that anyone can present to you that would change your mind about the bible. Therefore, it is truly a waste of time to do so. You will always believe, regardless of what the evidence suggests.
By “proof” Ed means you need to tell him which words or phrases add up to the same numbers.Stuart
Stu.You can not prove there is no God,
You cannot prove there is no pantheon of Roman gods. You cannot show that Jupiter is not very unhappy at your blasphemy towards him.Quote and you also can not prove the theory of evolution,You just believe; does that mean you are gullible?
In the language you use, evolution by natural selection is proved. It is proved beyond any doubt. Does that make me gullible? It’s not me who believes in talking snakes and women being made out of ribs.Quote Where is luci? Have they found luci?
What is “luci”?Quote the transition between man and monkey. there is none.
There are many more than one transitional species between monkeys and humans. We are descended from a common ancestor we shared with the old world monkeys, 25 million years ago.Quote What about the giant human skelletons they have found every where?(seek youtube for nephilims).
Ok, at this point I can see that you are not serious, and in fact I would suggest (since they are your words) you are not an honest human. I asked for a reference, and you have sent me on a wild goose chase.But actually, as it happens, I have heard of your claim. It is a well known forgery, so I don’t think it is me who is the gullible one in this case.
Stuart
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