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Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,16:56) What is a Darwinian principle, and how would it apply to my idea of the kind of society I would care to live in?
Law of the jungle with no Godly moral code. No commandments etc.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2010,19:43) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,16:56) What is a Darwinian principle, and how would it apply to my idea of the kind of society I would care to live in?
Law of the jungle with no Godly moral code. No commandments etc.
For example?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,18:56) You shall have no other gods before me
Not illegal in NZ.You shall not make for yourself an idol
Not illegal in NZ.You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
We have a blasphemy law, but you know that it would be laughed at if ever applied. It is an unenforceable law.Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Not a law of NZ.Honor your father and mother
Not a law of NZ.You shall not murder
This one is a law. Do you really think that prior to one of the various people who constituted the figure of Moses supposedly lugging stone tablets down Mount Horeb, the Children of Israel thought that murder was fine?? Whether the law is based on this commandment or not, it is not the original source of the principle.You shall not commit adultery
As you say, not illegal in NZ.You shall not steal
Illegal in NZ, but see comment above for murder.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
Not illegal in NZ, except in a court of law.You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor
Not illegal in NZ.The commandments are there for a reason Stu,
God had higher knowledge than us and saw way ahead than man possibly could!If I grabbed a 1 year old to stop them running out the gate, they would cry at my harshness and not really understand.
If you put together alot of those commandments,
Mans not listening could end in the nuclear destruction of the entire planet (just a thought).Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 26 2010,20:58) If I grabbed a 1 year old to stop them running out the gate, they would cry at my harshness and not really understand. If you put together alot of those commandments,
Mans not listening could end in the nuclear destruction of the entire planet (just a thought).
Is there a commandment that demands you protect children? Obviously the Catholic church hasn't heard of it.The greatest threat of nuclear destruction is in the 'promised land', perpetrated by those who will believe sincerely they are doing god's will.
Stuart
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 26 2010,22:17) So what! the second greatest threat is North Korea, chalk one up for atheism.
I think you will find they have a god. A father and son, as it happens.Stuart
Quote And yet, when the islamic suicide bomber is about to detonate, she shouts GOD IS GREAT. i am sure every murderer has some reason for their actions, who has the biggest slice of the pie chart is really of no matter, it still continues. who cares what belief system they carry, the question remains 'how can we stop it'.
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When the christian bigot incites against a gay man, he says it is because it is an ABOMINATION TO GOD.some do not need the belief of christians to be against gays, this is just pure bigotry in itself.
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When a Jew chops off his son's foreskin without asking him, it is to make a COVENANT WITH GOD.according to health professionals, this is more hygienic on the other hand if we were created in such a matter, why the need to change, when we are not to cut into our skin.
Quote When Stalin had slaughtered millions Nikita Khrushchev gave a denunciation of Stalin's actions: “It is impermissible and foreign to the spirit of Marxism-Leninism to elevate one person, to transform him into a superman possessing supernatural characteristics AKIN TO THOSE OF A GOD.” do not most want the god status, to have the power over people. look around it may be in small or large doses it is still there.
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Steven Weinberg was right. It takes religion for a good man to do evil.metaphorically speaking, all have some sort of god that rules their life: money, love, work */ something that consumes how they live. the three subjects mentioned in themselves can lead to evil deeds can they not?
murder is murder, no matter what faith is attached to it. this is where my faith is tested at times, an eye for an eye doesn't sound so bad, that in thought, would i be able to flip the switch, push the poison, pull the trigger.
then we are told to forgive and let the Father have his revenge, very hard especially if it is your friends or family.this question has surely lead others closer to their faith or have had them walk away.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,23:05) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 26 2010,22:17) So what! the second greatest threat is North Korea, chalk one up for atheism.
I think you will find they have a god. A father and son, as it happens.Stuart
In an about-turn decision, Stu now admits that gods exist. Although his choice for a god is amateurish, he may improve in time.Atheism is a belief system, complete with prophets, teachers, and preachers. Darwin takes the role that Paul takes in Christianity.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,07:30) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,23:05) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 26 2010,22:17) So what! the second greatest threat is North Korea, chalk one up for atheism.
I think you will find they have a god. A father and son, as it happens.Stuart
In an about-turn decision, Stu now admits that gods exist. Although his choice for a god is amateurish, he may improve in time.
They have a god in the same way that you have a god,t8, except they can really demonstrate that they actually exist, whereas you cannot demonstrate the reality of your god.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,07:31) Atheism is a belief system, complete with prophets, teachers, and preachers. Darwin takes the role that Paul takes in Christianity.
Good to see that you are no longer calling atheism a religion. We have made progress.Stuart
PoftheK
Quote i am sure every murderer has some reason for their actions, who has the biggest slice of the pie chart is really of no matter, it still continues. who cares what belief system they carry, the question remains 'how can we stop it'.
I don’t think it can be stopped altogether. Perhaps there will be tests and preventive treatments available for those who are sociopathic or psychopathic.Quote some do not need the belief of christians to be against gays, this is just pure bigotry in itself.
Christianity and islam represent the largest organised source of homophobia, most obviously in the RCC, although because many christians ignore biblical bigotry and are accepting of their fellow humans, probably homophobes of other kinds are more numerous in practice.Stu: When a Jew chops off his son's foreskin without asking him, it is to make a COVENANT WITH GOD.
Quote according to health professionals, this is more hygienic
Cutting off your arms so you could have cleaner armpits would be more hygienic too! Actually I think that most of the excuses for circumcision are pretty ludicrous. And it is non-consensual if performed on infants. That is an abuse of human rights as far as I am concerned. You might say child abuse, even.Quote on the other hand if we were created in such a matter, why the need to change, when we are not to cut into our skin.
Exactly. What kind of a religious believer thinks he can improve on his god’s creation by chopping off a bit?Quote do not most want the god status, to have the power over people. look around it may be in small or large doses it is still there.
And those who want that god status for themselves, only have to invent an all-powerful higher power than themselves which cannot be denied. In the case of North Korea, the higher power that still rules is Kim Il-sung, the dead former president.Stu: Steven Weinberg was right. It takes religion for a good man to do evil.
Quote metaphorically speaking, all have some sort of god that rules their life: money, love, work */ something that consumes how they live. the three subjects mentioned in themselves can lead to evil deeds can they not?
Yes, and I suppose the other debatable point is what you mean by good men.Quote murder is murder, no matter what faith is attached to it. this is where my faith is tested at times, an eye for an eye doesn't sound so bad, that in thought, would i be able to flip the switch, push the poison, pull the trigger. then we are told to forgive and let the Father have his revenge, very hard especially if it is your friends or family. this question has surely lead others closer to their faith or have had them walk away.
Completely right. Since no god has ever been seen doing anything about an injustice, all the believer has is the promise of justice in the future. I suppose that is something for sufferers of injustice to hold onto, but there is no reason to think it is anything more than wishful thinking.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2010,13:02) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,07:30) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,23:05) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 26 2010,22:17) So what! the second greatest threat is North Korea, chalk one up for atheism.
I think you will find they have a god. A father and son, as it happens.Stuart
In an about-turn decision, Stu now admits that gods exist. Although his choice for a god is amateurish, he may improve in time.
They have a god in the same way that you have a god,t8, except they can really demonstrate that they actually exist, whereas you cannot demonstrate the reality of your god.Stuart
Your god 'Darwin' exists/existed.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2010,13:04) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,07:31) Atheism is a belief system, complete with prophets, teachers, and preachers. Darwin takes the role that Paul takes in Christianity.
Good to see that you are no longer calling atheism a religion. We have made progress.Stuart
RELIGION:- a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
- the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
- the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
- something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience.
Let's face it, atheism is a belief system and requires faith. The non-existence of God is also a belief that requires faith, in this case, a blind faith. Atheism fits nicely in points 2 and 3 in particular.
The holier than thou attitude that says we are not a religion or a faith is kind of a fruit of the very thing that you deny. Many religions like Atheism claim the following:
- They have the truth;
- Outside of their belief, others are less fortunate;
- They organise themselves in such a way as to promote their belief, (think evangelistic crusade of some kind, like the atheist bus campaign);
- They try (and are sometimes successful) to get their belief to be accepted by the mainstream;
- They have their prophets, teachers, and men of their faith.
Atheism does and is all of the above.
Welcome to the religion of Atheism. All bow in honour of Prophet Darwin. May we all die eventually and become nothing. Amen. We believe that there is no creator and that everything came from nothing, something dead, or has always been. We do not believe that it is possible that something (intelligent) caused all. We have the truth.
NOTE: Kind of feel sorry for them. They do not believe in any kind of eternal hope.
But like all who are in cults, they sometimes need to be unbrainwashed in order to come out.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,15:45) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2010,13:02) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,07:30) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 26 2010,23:05) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 26 2010,22:17) So what! the second greatest threat is North Korea, chalk one up for atheism.
I think you will find they have a god. A father and son, as it happens.Stuart
In an about-turn decision, Stu now admits that gods exist. Although his choice for a god is amateurish, he may improve in time.
They have a god in the same way that you have a god,t8, except they can really demonstrate that they actually exist, whereas you cannot demonstrate the reality of your god.Stuart
Your god 'Darwin' exists/existed.
I don't have a god. Darwin is entirely fallible in the face of unambiguous evidence. I do not worship him, and indeed would be delighted if you could disprove him.However you only have fantasy assertions to throw at him.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,16:06) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2010,13:04) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2010,07:31) Atheism is a belief system, complete with prophets, teachers, and preachers. Darwin takes the role that Paul takes in Christianity.
Good to see that you are no longer calling atheism a religion. We have made progress.Stuart
RELIGION:- a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
- the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
- the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
- something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience.
Let's face it, atheism is a belief system and requires faith. The non-existence of God is also a belief that requires faith, in this case, a blind faith. Atheism fits nicely in points 2 and 3 in particular.
The holier than thou attitude that says we are not a religion or a faith is kind of a fruit of the very thing that you deny. Many religions like Atheism claim the following:
- They have the truth;
- Outside of their belief, others are less fortunate;
- They organise themselves in such a way as to promote their belief, (think evangelistic crusade of some kind, like the atheist bus campaign);
- They try (and are sometimes successful) to get their belief to be accepted by the mainstream;
- They have their prophets, teachers, and men of their faith.
Atheism does and is all of the above.
Welcome to the religion of Atheism. All bow in honour of Prophet Darwin. May we all die eventually and become nothing. Amen. We believe that there is no creator and that everything came from nothing, something dead, or has always been. We do not believe that it is possible that something (intelligent) caused all. We have the truth.
NOTE: Kind of feel sorry for them. They do not believe in any kind of eternal hope.
But like all who are in cults, they sometimes need to be unbrainwashed in order to come out.
Atheism is not a sect, which is defined in terms of supernatural beliefs (unless you call not collecting stamps a hobby), so #2 is actually irrelevant.Atheism does not promote any practices, so #3 is irrelevant.
The others are irrelevant too, for similar reasons.
Atheism is a belief system that is true. It is not a faith, because it does not positively claim anything that is not substantiated by evidence, in this case the negative evidence that whatever claims believers make has never been substantiated by any positive evidence. It is the provisional conclusion that, based on the complete lack of unambiguous evidence for any of the gods ever described by believers, there is no such thing existing outside the heads of the believers.
You would have to ask each atheist whether he claims to hold the truth. I don't claim that, and it is not a doctrine of atheism because there is no such doctrine.
You have got to be joking about atheists organising themselves. Even the bus campaign has hit a snag in the form of a gutless wonder of a bus company! Think of herding cats and you have a rough idea!
Everyone tries to get their belief system accepted by the mainstream. Are you trying to claim the high moral ground here? Atheists usually believe in democracy, which means we want everyone to have a fair say. Do the major christian sects want that? The Brethren don't seem to like fair political play, the RCC is as political corrupt as you could get in a religion and islam wants to take over the legal system of any country where muslims live.
As we have been over countless times, atheism is not contingent on faith at all. It is the default position that refuses to believe crackpot ideas unless there is good evidence.
Why do you say I do not believe in eternal hope? To the extent that there will be humans on the planet, I think hope will be important. I don't believe in eternal life because there is no evidence to think it is true and I also happen to believe that it would be a horrendous existence for anyone if it was true.
I think YOU should be careful what you wish for!
Do you have anything new t8, or are we just playing your limited CD collection all over again?
Stuart
And while you are at it t8, you might like to explain the title of the thread in terms of your assertion that atheism is a religion:
Atheism not religion leads in mass murders
Are you sure you know what you believe?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2010,13:24) PoftheK Quote i am sure every murderer has some reason for their actions, who has the biggest slice of the pie chart is really of no matter, it still continues. who cares what belief system they carry, the question remains 'how can we stop it'.
I don’t think it can be stopped altogether. Perhaps there will be tests and preventive treatments available for those who are sociopathic or psychopathic.Quote some do not need the belief of christians to be against gays, this is just pure bigotry in itself.
Christianity and islam represent the largest organised source of homophobia, most obviously in the RCC, although because many christians ignore biblical bigotry and are accepting of their fellow humans, probably homophobes of other kinds are more numerous in practice.Stu: When a Jew chops off his son's foreskin without asking him, it is to make a COVENANT WITH GOD.
Quote according to health professionals, this is more hygienic
Cutting off your arms so you could have cleaner armpits would be more hygienic too! Actually I think that most of the excuses for circumcision are pretty ludicrous. And it is non-consensual if performed on infants. That is an abuse of human rights as far as I am concerned. You might say child abuse, even.Quote on the other hand if we were created in such a matter, why the need to change, when we are not to cut into our skin.
Exactly. What kind of a religious believer thinks he can improve on his god’s creation by chopping off a bit?Quote do not most want the god status, to have the power over people. look around it may be in small or large doses it is still there.
And those who want that god status for themselves, only have to invent an all-powerful higher power than themselves which cannot be denied. In the case of North Korea, the higher power that still rules is Kim Il-sung, the dead former president.Stu: Steven Weinberg was right. It takes religion for a good man to do evil.
Quote metaphorically speaking, all have some sort of god that rules their life: money, love, work */ something that consumes how they live. the three subjects mentioned in themselves can lead to evil deeds can they not?
Yes, and I suppose the other debatable point is what you mean by good men.Quote murder is murder, no matter what faith is attached to it. this is where my faith is tested at times, an eye for an eye doesn't sound so bad, that in thought, would i be able to flip the switch, push the poison, pull the trigger. then we are told to forgive and let the Father have his revenge, very hard especially if it is your friends or family. this question has surely lead others closer to their faith or have had them walk away.
Completely right. Since no god has ever been seen doing anything about an injustice, all the believer has is the promise of justice in the future. I suppose that is something for sufferers of injustice to hold onto, but there is no reason to think it is anything more than wishful thinking.Stuart
Stuart,This is where we need to be wise and innocent at the same time. Know your surroundings and be prepared. Trust in what the spirit speaks to you.
You know stuart, you make mention of really never feeling any emotion, almost antiseptic. Have you ever felt danger?
Stuart, you must be from the silver spoon world, the rcc is the last of the gays worries, I know of men that if one would come near them the homosexual would be blessed to walk away with his life, and they have your belief system. So the rcc may shun others will kill. Take the shun or keep your life, So the rcc may be more of a companion then what you think.
Depending where the amputation is located if you underarms would be prone to more or less perspiration. Agreed with the circumcision of infants, it is horrid what they do to women in some cultures. The christians that scream there is no sabbath anymore are the ones that agree with circumcision. strange.
In my view, most want to feel god like in some way or another, call it OCD, control, to feel power over another person. employer's, pastor's, an abusive individual tend to feel this. You should do a comparison on a christian and a atheist employer's and see which is better to work for, that would be an interesting study would it not?
In my heart i know what a good man is, too many qualities to list, and stuart this is one subject i would not like to discuss any further if you don't mind k?
Do you have anything else that would soothe a soul of an individual/s that have experienced loss in their life of one kind or another what does your belief offer?
take care stuart
Quote (princess of the king @ Mar. 01 2010,00:08) This is where we need to be wise and innocent at the same time. Know your surroundings and be prepared. Trust in what the spirit speaks to you. You know stuart, you make mention of really never feeling any emotion, almost antiseptic. Have you ever felt danger?
Stuart, you must be from the silver spoon world, the rcc is the last of the gays worries, I know of men that if one would come near them the homosexual would be blessed to walk away with his life, and they have your belief system. So the rcc may shun others will kill. Take the shun or keep your life, So the rcc may be more of a companion then what you think.
Depending where the amputation is located if you underarms would be prone to more or less perspiration. Agreed with the circumcision of infants, it is horrid what they do to women in some cultures. The christians that scream there is no sabbath anymore are the ones that agree with circumcision. strange.
In my view, most want to feel god like in some way or another, call it OCD, control, to feel power over another person. employer's, pastor's, an abusive individual tend to feel this. You should do a comparison on a christian and a atheist employer's and see which is better to work for, that would be an interesting study would it not?
In my heart i know what a good man is, too many qualities to list, and stuart this is one subject i would not like to discuss any further if you don't mind k?
Do you have anything else that would soothe a soul of an individual/s that have experienced loss in their life of one kind or another what does your belief offer?
take care stuart
The spirit to me is the awe of the universe and our place in it. The fact that it is home, and unspeakably beautiful and brutally indifferent to us is spiritual.I think you might be impressing some kind of assumption about atheists onto me: why do you think I don't feel emotion?
I agree that the RCC does not represent an immediate physical danger to gays but they would be the one organisation placing the greatest pressure on governments to marginalise gays and restrict their rights.
Atheism does not promise to soothe except to the extent that you can be reasonably sure you are not inventing a placebo to soothe yourself. Whatever comfort you find in times of need, at least it is probably not a lie!
Stuart
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