At the 2nd coming .

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,22:26)

Hi Besee. If all flesh will not be saved without the coming? Then why is that; if this is Christ's kingdom? Why does he need to come to save his kingdom? Is he not in charge of his kingdom from heaven? wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

That's what I keep asking YOU.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Devolution]

2besee,

Don't you see what you have posted?

Quote

Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

Don't you realise that DURING Christ's time here on earth, He was fulfilling scripture DURING His 3 1/2 years of preaching?
It was being fulfilled GRADUALLY:

**Speaking about the colt nobody has sat on: Matthew 21:4 >All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

**Speaking about the virgin birth: Matthew 1:22 >Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

**Speaking about His capture & coming death: Matthew 26:54 >But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

And finally:

Acts 13:29 >And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

THEY…they of the Old Law…everything written about Jesus in THEIR LAW of whom the prophets were under also…and everything THOSE prophets spoke also…under THAT law where it was SPOKEN of Him, that everything to do with THAT LAW which SPOKE of Christ would be FULFILLED by that very same Christ at His DEATH.

Luke 24:44 >And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Concerning Jesus!!
All things concerning Jesus must be FULFILLED before the New Law can come into effect!!

Now look again at what is really being said:

Quote

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

The NEW LAW…which is the Old Law perfected…not one iota, not one dot in the New Law will pass (fail) until ALL is ACCOMPLISHED…and that does not happen UNTIL the LAST ENEMY is defeated…DEATH!!
So UNTIL THEN, not ALL THINGS found written within the book of the New Law are YET ACCOMPLISHED.

Everything in the Old Law CONCERNING CHRIST was FULFILLED at Christ's death…all the prophecies CONCERNING Him were FULFILLED…NOT every prophesy…but the ones concerning Him…
So LIVING it's laws by the LETTER have ENDED by Christs blood.
That Law has become something NEW now.

Quote

Matthew 5:19 >Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Again…What commandments?
Jesus is SPEAKING to the MULTITUDES don't forget!!
And He has NOT MENTIONED ANY LAWS YET to the MULTITUDES!!
So WHAT COMMANDMENTS is He referring to?

All we have to do to find out WHICH COMMANDMENTS are being spoken of is to continue reading…(notice these commandments are examples of the old law PERFECTED/FULFILLED)

Quote

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Notice they are LAWS!!

Now Look AGAIN at what the below is really saying:

Quote

“Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.

Who bears TESTIMONY to Jesus?
CHRISTIANS!!
THE COMMANDMENTS found in Christ's TESTIMONY.
And as we saw in the LAWS ABOVE…
The old laws were PERFECTED.
BUT…BUT…those under the old law would consider Christs teachings as PERVERTED DOCTRINE altering the Law of Moses.
So you see, now it should become clear which Laws are truly being spoken of!!

Hebrews 9:16 >For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17 >For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

[Ed J]

Hi Devolution,

Was the 10 commandments(the law) done away with?  of course NOT! (1John 2:3 / 1John 5:2-3)

Deut.6:1-2 Now these are the “commandments”,, the “statutes”, and the “judgments”,
which the LORD(YHVH) your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them
in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God,
to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and
thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

---

These three are also illustrated in the mount of transfiguration.

Moses: The Commandments; “10” Old & “2” New.
Elijah: The Judgments; rewards & punishments.
Jesus: The Statues; Jesus fulfilled the statues
(contained in ordinances), doing away with.

The statutes are what was done away with,
not God's 10 commandments (which is the law)

---

                                               
Eph.2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

---

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. “Fractal” counterpart, the tribes: 10 Northern and 2 Southern

[journey42]

2besee,Feb. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Do you personally know any Adventists?

Yes, I have in the past.

Quote

Do you know that they obey Gods commandments and have the faith of Jesus and the spirit of prophecy?

No they don't have the spirit of prophecy.  There are many errors.

Quote

Do you know their history?

Yes they have William Miller from New York who started the church in the early 1800's.  He predicted Christ's return in 1843-1844.  So first error here. They also have Ellen White and what I have searched about her, is not to her credit.

Quote

They do not go to war,

This does not prove anything.

Quote

They look after the temple (body),

They try to be holier than everyone else.  Most of the hard core ones forbid meat.

Quote

They show humility by washing each others feet as in scripture.

This is silly.

Quote

They water baptize,

Every religion does.

Quote

They are spirit filled.

No they are not.  They are preaching error.

Quote

They are one of the fastest growing denominations today and why is that?

Because they are of Babylon.  

Quote

Because of the three Angels message they believe.

We have the holy bible.  We are not permitted to add anything to it, or take away.

Quote

They have the fruit they have the numbers and they have love.

This does not prove anything, other than they are popular in the world.

Quote

And they are just one example that I am using here, regarding the scriptures above, and because they understand prophecy.

Sorry 2Besse, no they don't.

Quote

To say that God has not accomplished anything over the past 2000 years? Sorry but you are wrong.

I wouldn't call the 7DA God.

[Devolution]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2013,01:08)

Hi Devolution, Was the 10 commandments(the law) done away with?  of course NOT! (1John 2:3 / 1John 5:2-3) Deut.6:1-2 Now these are the “commandments”,, the “statutes”, and the “judgments”, which the LORD(YHVH) your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged. These three are also illustrated in the mount of transfiguration. Moses: The Commandments; “10” Old & “2” New. Elijah: The Judgments; rewards & punishments. Jesus: The Statues; Jesus fulfilled the statues (contained in ordinances), doing away with. The statutes are what was done away with, not God's 10 commandments (which is the law)                                                 Eph.2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org PS. “Fractal” counterpart, the tribes: 10 Northern and 2 Southern

Ed,

Did I say “done away with” or did I say “fulfilled?”

I said FULFILLED.

That word has a meaning Ed…

Cheers.

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2013,01:08)

Hi Devolution, Was the 10 commandments(the law) done away with?  of course NOT! (1John 2:3 / 1John 5:2-3) Deut.6:1-2 Now these are the “commandments”,, the “statutes”, and the “judgments”, which the LORD(YHVH) your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged. These three are also illustrated in the mount of transfiguration. Moses: The Commandments; “10” Old & “2” New. Elijah: The Judgments; rewards & punishments. Jesus: The Statues; Jesus fulfilled the statues (contained in ordinances), doing away with. The statutes are what was done away with, not God's 10 commandments (which is the law)                                                 Eph.2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org PS. “Fractal” counterpart, the tribes: 10 Northern and 2 Southern

Edj.

Jesus is the law,and you have not followed his law,but you speak greatly of the law,as if you follow the law.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Hi Wakeup,

I see you're still finger-pointing.  (ref. Matthew 7:1-5)
And denying the power to live sin-free.  (ref. 2Tm.3:5)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2013,22:48)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,22:26) Hi Besee. If all flesh will not be saved without the coming? Then why is that; if this is Christ's kingdom? Why does he need to come to save his kingdom? Is he not in charge of his kingdom from heaven? wakeup. Hi Wakeup, That's what I keep asking YOU. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EDj.

Jesus was speaking of ALL FLESH.
This includes animal flesh.
SAVED FROM THE WAR,NOT SPEAKING ABOUT SPIRITUALLY SAVED. You have misunderstood that scripture.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,17:26)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,20:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,22:23) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,15:19) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,22:10) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,15:04) The battle is a spiritual one, and if the time is not cut short, then even the very elect could be DECEIVED. What time was cut short Matthew 24, [22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. [23] Then if any one says to you, `Lo, here is the Christ!' or `There he is!' do not believe it. [24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. [25] Lo, I have told you beforehand. [26] So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. [27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. [28] Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. I believe that time has/will be sped up (literally) but that is just my belief. So you mean the time of the end Yes, the time of the end. Hi Besee. If all flesh will not be saved without the coming? Then why is that; if this is Christ's kingdom? Why does he need to come to save his kingdom? Is he not in charge of his kingdom from heaven? wakeup.

wup

SETUP OF THE KINGDOM ; NOT THE KINGDOM ;;;GOT IT

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 02 2013,20:51)

2besee,Feb. wrote: [/quote] Quote Do you personally know any Adventists? Yes, I have in the past. Quote Do you know that they obey Gods commandments and have the faith of Jesus and the spirit of prophecy? No they don't have the spirit of prophecy.  There are many errors. Quote Do you know their history? Yes they have William Miller from New York who started the church in the early 1800's.  He predicted Christ's return in 1843-1844.  So first error here. They also have Ellen White and what I have searched about her, is not to her credit. Quote They do not go to war, This does not prove anything. Quote They look after the temple (body), They try to be holier than everyone else.  Most of the hard core ones forbid meat. Quote They show humility by washing each others feet as in scripture. This is silly. Quote They water baptize, Every religion does. Quote They are spirit filled. No they are not.  They are preaching error. Quote They are one of the fastest growing denominations today and why is that? Because they are of Babylon.   Quote Because of the three Angels message they believe. We have the holy bible.  We are not permitted to add anything to it, or take away. Quote They have the fruit they have the numbers and they have love. This does not prove anything, other than they are popular in the world. Quote And they are just one example that I am using here, regarding the scriptures above, and because they understand prophecy. Sorry 2Besse, no they don't. Quote To say that God has not accomplished anything over the past 2000 years? Sorry but you are wrong. I wouldn't call the 7DA God.

j42

Quote

I wouldn't call the 7DA God.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2013,09:32)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,17:26) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,20:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,22:23) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,15:19) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,22:10) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,15:04) The battle is a spiritual one, and if the time is not cut short, then even the very elect could be DECEIVED. What time was cut short Matthew 24, [22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. [23] Then if any one says to you, `Lo, here is the Christ!' or `There he is!' do not believe it. [24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. [25] Lo, I have told you beforehand. [26] So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. [27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. [28] Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. I believe that time has/will be sped up (literally) but that is just my belief. So you mean the time of the end Yes, the time of the end. Hi Besee. If all flesh will not be saved without the coming? Then why is that; if this is Christ's kingdom? Why does he need to come to save his kingdom? Is he not in charge of his kingdom from heaven? wakeup. wup SETUP OF THE KINGDOM ; NOT THE KINGDOM ;;;GOT IT

Terra.

Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an EVERLASTING DOMINION, WHICH SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, AND HIS KINGDOM THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE DESTROYED.

WHY WOULD ALL FLESH BE DESTROYED,WITHOUT HIS COMING?

wakeup.

[942767]

Hi J42:

You say:

Quote

When every knee bows to Christ, it will NOT just be for fear of their lives, although they will be totally frightened, but it will be to worship him..  There will be survivors who never knew Christ, who will now see him for who he really is, Lord of Lords, King of Kings.  They will be grateful that they have been spared, although they have been through a most horrible punishment, with all the plagues, and war, and many would of lost loved ones and family.  They will suffer much loss, through these plagues, but some will be spared.  These ones will bow to Christ, for he stops their affliction and they are grateful.  They will recognise his mercy.  But they will not be permitted to live in the kingdom.  Only outside.  The truth will flow out of the kingdom to them.  They will be fed proper food now.

Can you substantiate all of these comments with scripture?

The following scripture that you quoted is part of the 6th trumpet prior to the Lord coming for the church:

Quote

Rev 9:20   And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood which neither can see, nor hear.

Quote

Rev 11:3   And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.   Rev 11:4   These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.   Rev 11:5   And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.   Rev 11:6   These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.   Rev 11:7 ¶ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.   Rev 11:8   And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.   Rev 11:9   And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.   Rev 11:10   And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.   Rev 11:11 ¶ And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.   Rev 11:12   And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.   Rev 11:13   And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.   Rev 11:14   The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The scripture in Revelation 19 does indicate that the beast and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire, but it also indicates:

Quote

Rev 19:21   And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

These all that have received the mark of the beast or worshipped his image, and as I have shown, they were judged by the seven last plagues.

Quote

Rev 16:1 ¶ And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.   Rev 16:2 ¶ And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image.   Rev 16:3 ¶ And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea.   Rev 16:4 ¶ And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.   Rev 16:5   And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.   Rev 16:6   For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.   Rev 16:7   And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.   Rev 16:8 ¶ And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.   Rev 16:9   And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.   Rev 16:10 ¶ And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,   Rev 16:11   And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.   Rev 16:12 ¶ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Quote

2Th 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;   2Th 2:4   Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.   2Th 2:5   Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?   2Th 2:6   And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.   2Th 2:7   For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.   2Th 2:8   And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume w ith the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:   2Th 2:9   [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,   2Th 2:10   And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.   2Th 2:11   And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:   2Th 2:12   That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

Do you believe that these will be judged by the seven last plagues, and then raised again from the dead to be judged a second time and cast into the lake of fire?

There will be a second resurrection for those who died in their sins who have not been judged, and they will be judged according to their works.  They will be destroyed, and it may be a lake of fire, but only the devil will be cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are:

Quote

Rev 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[2besee]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) Do you personally know any Adventists? Yes, I have in the past.

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) Do you know that they obey Gods commandments and have the faith of Jesus and the spirit of prophecy? No they don't have the spirit of prophecy.  There are many errors.

Woe.
Careful.
First you say that they are of the occult, now this.

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) Do you know their history? Yes they have William Miller from New York who started the church in the early 1800's.  He predicted Christ's return in 1843-1844.  So first error here. They also have Ellen White and what I have searched about her, is not to her credit.

“What you have searched out about her”?

They have the fruit to show and they obey the commandments of God.

'Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.' Rev 12:17
'Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.' Rev 14:12

Here are some facts:

Seventh-day Adventists add a new member by baptism every 48 seconds, and organizes five new congregations daily.
Membership today exceeds 14 million people (baptized members). Adventist population in the world (family members included) is more than 20 million.

Taken from here.
http://www.sdaisrael.org/who-we-are

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They do not go to war, This does not prove anything.

Yes it does.
The only involvement in war that they had was when they chose to became 'human guinea pigs' instead of others having to.

Google “human guinea pigs adventists”

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They look after the temple (body), They try to be holier than everyone else.  Most of the hard core ones forbid meat.

They obey God's commandments, not “try to be holier than everyone else” in your words.
And also, meat has a link to cancer and other things.
I also very rarely eat meat out of choice.

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They show humility by washing each others feet as in scripture. This is silly.

Why is it silly in your opinion when Jesus and the Disciples did the same thing?

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They water baptize, Every religion does.

No. Every religion does not baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.
You really hate water baptism. Why is that?
Jesus commanded it and the Disciples. Yet you know more than them?

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They are spirit filled. No they are not.  They are preaching error.

Woe again.

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They are one of the fastest growing denominations today and why is that? Because they are of Babylon.

Perhaps you should read up what they believe Babylon is.

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb . 02 2013,19:02) Because of the three Angels message they believe. We have the holy bible.  We are not permitted to add anything to it, or take away.

Hmmm.
(No comment).

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) They have the fruit they have the numbers and they have love. This does not prove anything, other than they are popular in the world.

What?

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) And they are just one example that I am using here, regarding the scriptures above, and because they understand prophecy. Sorry 2Besse, no they don't.

Do you?

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 03 2013,03:51)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,19:02) To say that God has not accomplished anything over the past 2000 years? Sorry but you are wrong. I wouldn't call the 7DA God.

I do not know what you are saying here.
Perhaps it was a typo.

Sorry, Journey, but
I sense an anger toward other believers in you three, underneath.

There are many many people in the world saved who do not agree to you doctrine exactly.

Do you believe this? Yes or No.

[2besee]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,22:55)

You notice they have to go through great tribulation first. And also they are not just of this generation,but of all  genrations.

Perhaps those who go through the 'great tribulation' and wash their robes clean and make them white in the blood of the lamb are overcomers from each generation.

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Many will say Lord,Lord did we not do this and that in your name;and he will say go away I dont know you.

Continue on with the words..

'On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

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Only the ones that truly hunger FOR THE TRUTH will make it.

Scripture please.

[2besee]

Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 03 2013,02:35)

2besee, Don't you see what you have posted? Quote Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. Don't you realise that DURING Christ's time here on earth, He was fulfilling scripture DURING His 3 1/2 years of preaching? It was being fulfilled GRADUALLY: **Speaking about the colt nobody has sat on: Matthew 21:4 >All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, **Speaking about the virgin birth: Matthew 1:22 >Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, **Speaking about His capture & coming death: Matthew 26:54 >But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? And finally: Acts 13:29 >And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. THEY…they of the Old Law…everything written about Jesus in THEIR LAW of whom the prophets were under also…and everything THOSE prophets spoke also…under THAT law where it was SPOKEN of Him, that everything to do with THAT LAW which SPOKE of Christ would be FULFILLED by that very same Christ at His DEATH. Luke 24:44 >And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Concerning Jesus!! All things concerning Jesus must be FULFILLED before the New Law can come into effect!! Now look again at what is really being said: Quote For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. The NEW LAW…which is the Old Law perfected…not one iota, not one dot in the New Law will pass (fail) until ALL is ACCOMPLISHED…and that does not happen UNTIL the LAST ENEMY is defeated…DEATH!! So UNTIL THEN, not ALL THINGS found written within the book of the New Law are YET ACCOMPLISHED. Everything in the Old Law CONCERNING CHRIST was FULFILLED at Christ's death…all the prophecies CONCERNING Him were FULFILLED…NOT every prophesy…but the ones concerning Him… So LIVING it's laws by the LETTER have ENDED by Christs blood. That Law has become something NEW now. Quote Matthew 5:19 >Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Again…What commandments? Jesus is SPEAKING to the MULTITUDES don't forget!! And He has NOT MENTIONED ANY LAWS YET to the MULTITUDES!! So WHAT COMMANDMENTS is He referring to? All we have to do to find out WHICH COMMANDMENTS are being spoken of is to continue reading…(notice these commandments are examples of the old law PERFECTED/FULFILLED) Quote 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Notice they are LAWS!! Now Look AGAIN at what the below is really saying: Quote “Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. Who bears TESTIMONY to Jesus? CHRISTIANS!! THE COMMANDMENTS found in Christ's TESTIMONY. And as we saw in the LAWS ABOVE… The old laws were PERFECTED. BUT…BUT…those under the old law would consider Christs teachings as PERVERTED DOCTRINE altering the Law of Moses. So you see, now it should become clear which Laws are truly being spoken of!! Hebrews 9:16 >For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Hebrews 9:17 >For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So, do you or don't you believe that the ten commandments of God are still in place and are still to be obeyed?  

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 03 2013,05:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2013,09:32) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,17:26) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,20:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,22:23) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,15:19) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,22:10) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,15:04) The battle is a spiritual one, and if the time is not cut short, then even the very elect could be DECEIVED. What time was cut short Matthew 24, [22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. [23] Then if any one says to you, `Lo, here is the Christ!' or `There he is!' do not believe it. [24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. [25] Lo, I have told you beforehand. [26] So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. [27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. [28] Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. I believe that time has/will be sped up (literally) but that is just my belief. So you mean the time of the end Yes, the time of the end. Hi Besee. If all flesh will not be saved without the coming? Then why is that; if this is Christ's kingdom? Why does he need to come to save his kingdom? Is he not in charge of his kingdom from heaven? wakeup. wup SETUP OF THE KINGDOM ; NOT THE KINGDOM ;;;GOT IT Terra. Daniel 7:14   And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an EVERLASTING DOMINION, WHICH SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, AND HIS KINGDOM THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE DESTROYED. WHY WOULD ALL FLESH BE DESTROYED,WITHOUT HIS COMING? wakeup.

wup

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Terra. Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an EVERLASTING DOMINION, WHICH SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, AND HIS KINGDOM THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE DESTROYED. WHY WOULD ALL FLESH BE DESTROYED,WITHOUT HIS COMING? wakeup.

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WHY WOULD ALL FLESH BE DESTROYED,WITHOUT HIS COMING?

that scripture does not say any thing about the destruction of all flesh ;BUT ONLY SAYS THAT HIS KINGDOM WILL NEVER BE DESTROYED

so I do not understand your question

[Devolution]

Quote

So, do you or don't you believe that the ten commandments of God are still in place and are still to be obeyed?

You make it sound like my answer would just be an opinion.
Have you ever read the New Testament?
If you have you should realise that the 10 commandments AS THEY WERE are no longer APPLIED as they once were.

What does that tell you?

Don't you know that there is NO MERCY under the old law?
BREAK JUST ONE LAW AND YOU ARE GUILTY OF THEM ALL.

Don't you like Christs new rendering of the old laws?

Don't you know the 10 commandments were ONLY FOR THE JEWS.
They were part of GODS COVENANT to…to…to…ISRAEL!!

ISRAEL ONLY

Not Amsterdam, not Australia, not Canada, not America and certainly not CHRISTIANS.

Tell you what, go read acts ch 15 for starters and you will find out what commandments were given to non Jews…and there AIN'T 10 of em I'm telling you now.

Then read the gospels and see how Christ “broke” the Sabbath and what He said about it and HOW to keep it.
And you will find the SDA are contradicting Christs INSTRUCTIONS.
WOE TO THEM.

There is no way I will willingly or otherwise put myself under that bondage that not even the Jews were able to bear!!

Why would I want to TRAMPLE over Christs sacrifice and place myself under bondage to the flesh?

Don't you realise that the Old Law, with its commandments and statutes are SUBJECT TO THE FLESH?
Hello!!

If the SDA choose to do so, then that is their GRAVE MISTAKE…and many are sick and dying because of their twisted sneaky readings.
WOE to those blind guides.

[2besee]

Devolution,Feb. wrote:

[/quote]
Devolution,

So, your answer is that the ten commandments are 'done away with'?

Really?

[journey42]

942767,Feb. wrote:

[/quote]

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Hi J42: You say:

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When every knee bows to Christ, it will NOT just be for fear of their lives, although they will be totally frightened, but it will be to worship him..  There will be survivors who never knew Christ, who will now see him for who he really is, Lord of Lords, King of Kings.  They will be grateful that they have been spared, although they have been through a most horrible punishment, with all the plagues, and war, and many would of lost loved ones and family.  They will suffer much loss, through these plagues, but some will be spared.  These ones will bow to Christ, for he stops their affliction and they are grateful.  They will recognise his mercy.  But they will not be permitted to live in the kingdom.  Only outside.  The truth will flow out of the kingdom to them.  They will be fed proper food now.

Quote

Can you substantiate all of these comments with scripture?

Hi Marty, it's spread throughout the old testament.  A little bit here, and a little bit there.  I hope you read all the verses, for this took a lot of effort to find and type out.

Micah 4:1   But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow into it.
Micah 4:2   And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Micah 4:3   And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Micah 4:4   But they shall sit every man under his vine, and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

The nation Israel will punished during the seven plagues. Then at Christ's return, Israel will be restored.  Israel will be protected in her border.  This is the holy camp.  Jerusalem is the headquarters of where Christ and his saints will be ruling from.  There are nations outside of that border.  These are the survivors.  Their weapons have been taken off them, and instead they will use their hands for hunting and building.

Ezekiel 20:40   For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel saith the Lord God, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the  land serve me: there will I accept them and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of the oblations, with all your holy things.
Ezekiel 20:41  I will accept you with your sweet savor, when I bring you of from the people, and gather out out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.

Ezekiel 20:7   It shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water, behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord God.

Nahum 1:15   Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bring good tidings, that publish peace O judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off. NOTHING DEFILED CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM.  (must realise that the outside nations, although given a chance, are NOT PERFECT.  They will multiply and multiply for 1000 years, and there will still be many that will have evil in their hearts.)

Marty, you must first get the picture that when Christ returns, he destroys the system of BABYLON, not the whole earth.  THE SYSTEM, The way Babylon was run with all her corruption, will be no more.  Christ will also destroy all the CITIES of the world.  They will not be inhabited anymore.  People will rebuild outside of the cities.  The cities will be ruinous heaps.

Zephaniah 2:7   and the sea coasts shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity. ASHKELON IS NOW INHABITED BY THE PALESTINE.  THE LORD WILL RECLAIM BACK THIS LAND FOR ISRAEL AGAIN.

Zephaniah 2:8   I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border.   MOAB IS NOW JORDAN

Zephaniah 2:9   Therefore as I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding of nettles, and salt pits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.  AMMON ALSO JORDAN.  THEIR TERRITORY WILL BE GIVEN TO ISRAEL DURING THE MILLENIUM.

Zephaniah 2:10   This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the LORD of hosts.  THIS NATION MAGNIFIED THEMSELVES AGAINST ISRAEL.

HERE IS YOUR PROOF

Zephaniah 2:11   The LORD will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, ….even all the isles of the heathen.   CHRIST WILL DESTROY ALL THE IDOLS, AND WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS, AND ALL THE OUTSIDE NATIONS (HEATHEN) WILL WORSHIP THE LORD.

Zephaniah 2:12   Ye Ethiopians also, ye shall be slain by my sword. ETHIOPIA WILL BE NO MORE. (ISRAEL WILL HAVE THIS TERRITORY ALSO.) DON'T FORGET THE KINGDOM IS 2414 KL
M SQUARE)

Zephaniah 2:13   And he will stretch out his hand against the north, and destroy Assyria: and will make Nineveh a desolation and dry like a wilderness.  NINEVAH IS WHERE ALL FALSE RELIGION SPRANG FROM. THE LORD IS GOING TO DRY UP THEIR FALSE WORSHIP, AND DESTROY HER IDOLS.

Zephaniah 2:14   And flocks shall lie down in the midst of her, all the beasts of the nations: both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper, lintels of it; their voice shall sing in the windows; desolation shall be in the thresholds; for he shall uncover the cedar work. NINEVAH WILL BE LEFT IN RUINS.  LEFT FOR WILD BEASTS TO DWELL.  NO MORE INHABITANTS.  WILL BECOME LIKE A JUNGLE (WILDERNESS)  THE CEDAR WORK ARE ALL THE TALL PROUD ONES (RICH MEN OF THE EARTH) THEIR WORKS EXPOSED.

Zephaniah 2:15   This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that saith in her heart, I am, and there in none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.  THIS IS BABYLON THE GREAT.  THE HARLOT.  HER RUINED CITIES, PEOPLE WILL PASS BY BUT NOT DWELL.

Zephaniah 3:8   Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all of my fierce anger (THE COMING) for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
Zephaniah 3:9   For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent 

Zephaniah 3:11   From that day, shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me.  for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.  THIS IS SPEAKING TO ISRAEL.

Zephaniah 3:12   I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD. THE OUTSIDERS, SURVIVORS.

Zephaniah 3:19   Behold, at that time, I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. SPEAKING TO ISRAEL.

Zephaniah 3:20   At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you; for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.

These scriptures are God's words.  Proof there will be a nation saved (Israel) and proof that there will be survivors outside of the kingdom on earth(Holy Camp). I will answer your other questions later.

[2besee]

Devo,

If you look at another mans wife with lustful intent, or even speak to another mans wife on the Internet or by phone with lustful intent, have you committed sin?

Yes or no.

[Author]

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