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Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,02:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2009,00:55) For CON who claims to be Arian.
He is most likely mistaken. Arius believed in the preexistence of Jesus though he also believed Jesus was created. Your beliefs are probably closer to Arius' that Constitutionalists are. He should look to the Jewish Christians.From what I have heard Constantine actually liked Arius but pandered to his opponents.
KWGood points!
Thats why I say he has a “Unitarian” theology mixed with seventh day adventistism!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 09 2009,23:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,02:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2009,00:55) For CON who claims to be Arian.
He is most likely mistaken. Arius believed in the preexistence of Jesus though he also believed Jesus was created. Your beliefs are probably closer to Arius' that Constitutionalists are. He should look to the Jewish Christians.From what I have heard Constantine actually liked Arius but pandered to his opponents.
KWGood points!
Thats why I say he has a “Unitarian” theology mixed with seventh day adventistism!
WJ
Unitarians believe in Salvation for all of creation, I do not.And the Pentocostal groups are a mixed batch, they don't even know where they stand. They mostly follow there teachers.
Seventh-Day Adventist believe in pre-existance, and that there are atleast three souls in heaven today (Enoch, Elijah, Moses), I do not.
I am Jewish and believe in the Messiah, I do not fellowship with Messianic Jews nor Messianic Christians, they mostly accept the Pagan Heresies of the Trinitarian doctrine.
When Arius considered the Messiah a beast, it was probably referenced to that we are no differant than the beast in that we all have the same breath. And that he was mortal, until he received immortality at the resurrection.
And for Constantines liking Arius is in doubt as well, threatening Arius and his followers with excommunication and death does not seem a friendly exchange, resulting in Arius's tearing up the debate letters publicly so that the trinitarian doctrine would be passed.
I also believe Origen in his discourse is not a perfect picture on Arius ideals on pre-existance, I believe Arius believed pre-existance was the forknowledge of Yahwehs plan for the Messiah from the beginning. Not that the Messiah pre-existed himself.
Arius did not believe the Messiah was divine in the nature of the Trinity (homoousios) nor did Arius teach that the Messiah was eternally existent with the Father.
R.P.C. Hanson, The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God: The Arian Controversy, 318-381 (T&T Clark, 1988).
William C. Rusch, The Trinitarian Controversy, (Sources of Early Christian Thought), 1980, ISBN 0-8006-1410-0
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 09 2009,23:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 09 2009,23:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,02:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2009,00:55) For CON who claims to be Arian.
He is most likely mistaken. Arius believed in the preexistence of Jesus though he also believed Jesus was created. Your beliefs are probably closer to Arius' that Constitutionalists are. He should look to the Jewish Christians.From what I have heard Constantine actually liked Arius but pandered to his opponents.
KWGood points!
Thats why I say he has a “Unitarian” theology mixed with seventh day adventistism!
WJ
Unitarians believe in Salvation for all of creation, I do not.And the Pentocostal groups are a mixed batch, they don't even know where they stand. They mostly follow there teachers.
Seventh-Day Adventist believe in pre-existance, and that there are atleast three souls in heaven today (Enoch, Elijah, Moses), I do not.
I am Jewish and believe in the Messiah, I do not fellowship with Messianic Jews nor Messianic Christians, they mostly accept the Pagan Heresies of the Trinitarian doctrine.
When Arius considered the Messiah a beast, it was probably referenced to that we are no differant than the beast in that we all have the same breath. And that he was mortal, until he received immortality at the resurrection.
And for Constantines liking Arius is in doubt as well, threatening Arius and his followers with excommunication and death does not seem a friendly exchange, resulting in Arius's tearing up the debate letters publicly so that the trinitarian doctrine would be passed.
I also believe Origen in his discourse is not a perfect picture on Arius ideals on pre-existance, I believe Arius believed pre-existance was the forknowledge of Yahwehs plan for the Messiah from the beginning. Not that the Messiah pre-existed himself.
Arius did not believe the Messiah was divine in the nature of the Trinity (homoousios) nor did Arius teach that the Messiah was eternally existent with the Father.
R.P.C. Hanson, The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God: The Arian Controversy, 318-381 (T&T Clark, 1988).
William C. Rusch, The Trinitarian Controversy, (Sources of Early Christian Thought), 1980, ISBN 0-8006-1410-0
I need to clarify one thing, even though I do not see eye to eye with most denominations, I do not neglect them either, I do feel they all have something to add to the total truth. If we attack other denominations and other beliefs in their entirety then we are no differant than the original Whore.Constitutionalist wrote:
Quote Seventh-Day Adventist believe in pre-existance, and that there are at least three souls in heaven today (Enoch, Elijah, Moses), I do not.
I was brought up in that church as so know that there used to be some that did not necessary follow the mainstream. Some have even stated Ellen G. White was originally of their number.
I still am prone to say you have similarities to the early Christian Jew sects though we know little of them.
Try the Ebionites. We know about them mostly if not entirely from their foes so the information should be taken with some skepticism in mind. I doubt very much they or other Jewish Christians were invited to the Council of Nicea.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,00:19) Constitutionalist wrote: Quote Seventh-Day Adventist believe in pre-existance, and that there are at least three souls in heaven today (Enoch, Elijah, Moses), I do not.
I was brought up in that church as so know that there used to be some that did not necessary follow the mainstream. Some have even stated Ellen G. White was originally of their number.
I still am prone to say you have similarities to the early Christian Jew sects though we know little of them.
Try the Ebionites. We know about them mostly if not entirely from their foes so the information should be taken with some skepticism in mind. I doubt very much they or other Jewish Christians were invited to the Council of Nicea.
Karaites and Ebionites are kissing cousins so to speak, and much hated by Rabbinical Pharisees.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2009,00:25) Hi,
The 7th dayers hold to the OT law.
Well then bless their hearts, I have only praise for those who keep 'Elohims commandments.Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,00:19) Constitutionalist wrote: Quote Seventh-Day Adventist believe in pre-existance, and that there are at least three souls in heaven today (Enoch, Elijah, Moses), I do not.
I was brought up in that church as so know that there used to be some that did not necessary follow the mainstream. Some have even stated Ellen G. White was originally of their number.
I still am prone to say you have similarities to the early Christian Jew sects though we know little of them.
Try the Ebionites. We know about them mostly if not entirely from their foes so the information should be taken with some skepticism in mind. I doubt very much they or other Jewish Christians were invited to the Council of Nicea.
Karaite Jews most probably listened to the Messiah preach and watched him heal, and most probably many were converted. Many Ebionites probably became Messianic followers as well.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,14:43) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,00:19) Constitutionalist wrote: Quote Seventh-Day Adventist believe in pre-existance, and that there are at least three souls in heaven today (Enoch, Elijah, Moses), I do not.
I was brought up in that church as so know that there used to be some that did not necessary follow the mainstream. Some have even stated Ellen G. White was originally of their number.
I still am prone to say you have similarities to the early Christian Jew sects though we know little of them.
Try the Ebionites. We know about them mostly if not entirely from their foes so the information should be taken with some skepticism in mind. I doubt very much they or other Jewish Christians were invited to the Council of Nicea.
Karaite Jews most probably listened to the Messiah preach and watched him heal, and most probably many were converted. Many Ebionites probably became Messianic followers as well.
The Ebionites claimed to follow the Anointed One. Hearsay reports they used a different version of Matthew that is currently found in scripture.The Ebionites were rumored to be fairly extreme in they did not believe in the virgin birth of Jesus or in his resurrection.
A better match might be the Nazarene sect.
hi nick
good comments abode arius,
but I have a little challange for you ,could and will you quote the chripture verse were Arius was rong,that is wath i want the know.i am sure this will interest others as well
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