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Quote (Stu @ Feb. 24 2013,19:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 24 2013,11:02) Hi Stu: And so, I already know that your opinion is that I am delusional, but I know that I am not, and I also know that your opinion will be proven wrong.
I don’t think you can claim to know that. I think you are obviously deluded. You’ve learned all this stuff and invested a lot of emotional energy in it, but actually what can you tie to any of it? Nothing actually.Quote And my explanation to you regarding the “first born of Egypt”, is so that you can at least know what that is speaking of.
All this destroying your nasty god has to do. Why can’t it just bog off and leave us alone?Quote My commission is to share the truth of the gospel (good news with you), and hopefully, you will hear with your ears, and understand with your heart and be converted, but if not, I have fulfilled by obligation by sharing the truth with you.
What if everyone felt the need to share their nasty fantasy conspiracy theories with everyone else? What a really tedious place the world would be then.Quote And so, this is the gospel (good news).
I can’t see a single thing that is good about it.Stuart
Hi Stu:But I do know for a fact that the Word of God, the bible, is true. I know through many and varied personal experiences.
Your opinion that I am delusional does not change anything.
There is a difference between learning something, and knowing something through personal experiences that have happened in my life. Of course, I have studied the bible over the past 32 years, and the understanding of the Word of God can only come through study, and asking God for understanding when there are hard to understand scriptures and situations.
God does not want to destroy anyone, but I have already told you that He has allowed this temporary world to call those who desire to continue in His house to come to Him having all theirs sins forgiven through what He has done for them through His Son, Jesus.
If someone does not desire to continue in God's house, they do not have to do so, but they will have to give an account of their life.
But He will leave you alone, if that is what you desire at least for now. Just go on about your business doing whatever you want for as long as you live. Judgement will not occur until the last days, until God has done every thing to save every individual who will hear the truth.
God sent the church with the commission to share the gospel with those who want to hear, and so that is what I do, but who sent you to share your theroies of Natural selection?
Quote 1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Cr 1:18 ¶ For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Cr 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Cr 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Let me see what are some of the good news issue of the gospel.
All of your sins will be forgiven.
You will inherit eternal life with eternal joy forever more.Just to name these two, I know there are others.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2013,10:54) And Tim and Charity: Do you feel peaceful, knowing that you will die someday, and what I have told you has been the truth and you did not believe it?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Dear 97,I Know your sincereness. Its Not mystery to me.
I will shake your Hand an kiss your feet if your correct, I will Take my punishment as deserved..A Inform God That you were faithful unto him an me.
charity
Hi Stu:
You say:
Quote What does that have to do with what we were discussing?
What do you mean by life itself? Would you call viruses living things? Most biologists wouldn’t, and yet they have DNA or RNA inside a cellular sort of structure.I has to do with everything that we are discussing, and yes, I do believe that viruses are liviing.
And you say:
Quote My point is that you have to be very careful about the question you ask. The general answer is that no one knows how life started, and probably no one will ever know, because we don’t have evidence from the abiogenesis of life. But there is some excellent chemical speculation out there. Just use the search term “abiogensis” on YouTube if you want to know about it. You do not have the evidence of life from the theory of life through abiogenesis because that is not the way it happened, but if it had, then sceintists should be able to reproduce life in the laboratory.
I know how life started. You have been told through the scriptures in Genesis. Only, you do not believe what God has said.
Stu, I have already explained what happened in the case of Uzzah.
David was the King over Israel, and he was responsible for governing the people. The instructions from God is that only the Koahites were to transfort the ark of the covenant, and they were not to touch the ark itself, but there were poles that were designed for carrying it. David knew this but carried the ark of the covenant on a cart, and because he did not follow God's instructions, Uzzah's life was cut short in this life. This was done to teach David a lesson, and he did learn from it. I will show you the scriptures.
This is the instruction from God relative to the carrying of the ark of the covenant:
Quote Num 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear [it]: but they shall not touch [any] holy thing, lest they die. These [things are] the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation. After the incident happened to Uzzah, there are these scriptures which show that David learned to transport the ark of the covenant only by the way God said to transport it.
Quote 1Ch 15:1 ¶ And [David] made him houses in the city of David, and prepared a place for the ark of God, and pitched for it a tent. 1Ch 15:2 Then David said, None ought to carry the ark of God but the Levites: for them hath the LORD chosen to carry the ark of God, and to minister unto him for ever.
1Ch 15:3 And David gathered all Israel together to Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the LORD unto his place, which he had prepared for it.
Quote 1Ch 15:11 And David called for Zadok and Abiathar the priests, and for the Levites, for Uriel, Asaiah, and Joel, Shemaiah, and Eliel, and Amminadab, 1Ch 15:12 And said unto them, Ye [are] the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, [both] ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto [the place that] I have prepared for it.
1Ch 15:13 For because ye [did it] not at the first, the LORD our God made a breach upon us, for that we sought him not after the due order.
1Ch 15:14 So the priests and the Levites sanctified themselves to bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel.
1Ch 15:15 And the children of the Levites bare the ark of God upon their shoulders with the staves thereon, as Moses commanded according to the word of the LORD.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (charity @ Feb. 27 2013,12:10) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2013,10:54) And Tim and Charity: Do you feel peaceful, knowing that you will die someday, and what I have told you has been the truth and you did not believe it?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Dear 97,I Know your sincereness. Its Not mystery to me.
I will shake your Hand an kiss your feet if your correct, I will Take my punishment as deserved..A Inform God That you were faithful unto him an me.
charity
Hi Charity:Thanks you for at least believing that I am sincere.
God loves you and so do I, and no one has to be punished unless that is what they desire.
You have the right name “Charity”:
Quote 1Cr 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity Love in Christ,
MartyThank you 97,
Charity's Pledge to serve Humanity
Free energy is provided free
Zero Point Energy Is passed on to Humanity for Free.
Its a blessing to come to terms with the dark forces.
Wake US Up Please!
Thank Mr Tesla for Advancing Humanity, An Yes Sorry for the greedy Demon's That stopped you.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2013,12:04) Hi Stu: But I do know for a fact that the Word of God, the bible, is true. I know through many and varied personal experiences.
Haven’t we been through this already? I attribute my charm and good fortune to the benevolence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bhna) and my personal experience of him. You had better respect that.Quote Your opinion that I am delusional does not change anything.
That’s dogmatism for you.Quote There is a difference between learning something, and knowing something through personal experiences that have happened in my life. Of course, I have studied the bible over the past 32 years, and the understanding of the Word of God can only come through study, and asking God for understanding when there are hard to understand scriptures and situations.
I could understand if you had spent 32 years studying the violin and had become a world-class performer as a result. But christianity is a dull Mesopotamian mythology that really shouldn’t take anyone more than a couple of years.Quote God does not want to destroy anyone, but I have already told you that He has allowed this temporary world to call those who desire to continue in His house to come to Him having all theirs sins forgiven through what He has done for them through His Son, Jesus.
You mean through accepting a human sacrifice as an act of scapegoating? Nasty.Quote If someone does not desire to continue in God's house, they do not have to do so, but they will have to give an account of their life.
Why?Quote But He will leave you alone, if that is what you desire at least for now. Just go on about your business doing whatever you want for as long as you live. Judgement will not occur until the last days, until God has done every thing to save every individual who will hear the truth.
Your god has no moral authority to judge any human. Given it’s track record we are the ones who should stand in judgment of it.Quote God sent the church with the commission to share the gospel with those who want to hear, and so that is what I do, but who sent you to share your theroies of Natural selection?
It’s not my theory, and the only sender is curiosity about how the world actually works, and I don’t care if it turns out to be wrong. But so far it is spectacularly right, one of the most successful theories we have. Natural selection explains almost everything about life.On the other hand, I don’t see you explaining anything about life. Even your religion doesn’t really understand humanity. All it wants to do is tell fantasy stories to the wide-eyed.
Let me see what are some of the good news issue of the gospel.
All of your sins will be forgiven.
You will inherit eternal life with eternal joy forever more.
I’m not a christian so I am not a sinner, so that isn’t a problem that needs solving thanks. I don’t know what you mean by eternal life, but if it is the wishful thinking that you would somehow never die, why would you want that? It sounds hideous.Stuart
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:01) Hi Stu: You say:
Quote What does that have to do with what we were discussing?
What do you mean by life itself? Would you call viruses living things? Most biologists wouldn’t, and yet they have DNA or RNA inside a cellular sort of structure.I has to do with everything that we are discussing, and yes, I do believe that viruses are liviing.
What argument would you put forward in favour of considering viruses as living? They don’t have a metabolism of any kind. They don’t feed or excrete wastes.Quote You do not have the evidence of life from the theory of life through abiogenesis because that is not the way it happened,
What exactly are you saying didn’t happen?Quote but if it had, then sceintists should be able to reproduce life in the laboratory.
Why should they?Quote I know how life started. You have been told through the scriptures in Genesis. Only, you do not believe what God has said.
I don’t hear the voices like you do. Go on, humour us. How did life start?Quote Stu, I have already explained what happened in the case of Uzzah. David was the King over Israel, and he was responsible for governing the people. The instructions from God is that only the Koahites were to transfort the ark of the covenant, and they were not to touch the ark itself, but there were poles that were designed for carrying it. David knew this but carried the ark of the covenant on a cart, and because he did not follow God's instructions, Uzzah's life was cut short in this life. This was done to teach David a lesson, and he did learn from it. I will show you the scriptures.
This is the instruction from God relative to the carrying of the ark of the covenant:
Quote
Num 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear [it]: but they shall not touch [any] holy thing, lest they die. These [things are] the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.After the incident happened to Uzzah, there are these scriptures which show that David learned to transport the ark of the covenant only by the way God said to transport it.
Quote
1Ch 15:1 ¶ And [David] made him houses in the city of David, and prepared a place for the ark of God, and pitched for it a tent.1Ch 15:2 Then David said, None ought to carry the ark of God but the Levites: for them hath the LORD chosen to carry the ark of God, and to minister unto him for ever.
1Ch 15:3 And David gathered all Israel together to Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the LORD unto his place, which he had prepared for it.
Quote
1Ch 15:11 And David called for Zadok and Abiathar the priests, and for the Levites, for Uriel, Asaiah, and Joel, Shemaiah, and Eliel, and Amminadab,1Ch 15:12 And said unto them, Ye [are] the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, [both] ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto [the place that] I have prepared for it.
1Ch 15:13 For because ye [did it] not at the first, the LORD our God made a breach upon us, for that we sought him not after the due order.
1Ch 15:14 So the priests and the Levites sanctified themselves to bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel.
1Ch 15:15 And the children of the Levites bare the ark of God upon their shoulders with the staves thereon, as Moses commanded according to the word of the LORD. [/quote]
So your god killed Uzzah to teach David a lesson.
Are we supposed to forgive you god for that too?
Stuart
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 27 2013,12:00) Tim,
In case you forgot
WmQuote
Tim,
What is your thoughts on my post a couple up? I was troubled for years with the claim that “God is in control” especially when given to grieving loved ones as a supposed word of comfort. And then they add to their grief with words on their eternal suffering in hell, the statement “God is in control” sours pretty quick. With this kind of gospel it's no wonder that you atheists are so cynical. But truth is available to all who will search for it. Don't allow these false teachings to “sour” your view of our loving Heavenly Father.Wm
Hi Wm.
I have hesitated answering your question because I believe that your intentions are good and my answer may seem harsh to you.
As always I have appreciated your responses.Quote I do not believe that God is the “cause” of everything. Some people believe that God is in control of everything, some don't.
It has to do with interpreting the bible in a way that makes a person comfortable with what it says. It can be interpreted both ways in every argument.Quote
He made laws (not 10 commandment type, but laws of physics, thermodynamics, etc..) to govern our universe, these resulted in a basic cause and effect environment. Thus storms and most other “natural” occurrence are just that, a natural occurrence. He then gave man dominion allowing for us to work within These “laws” to collectively exert our will in this world.This verse makes it sound as if God makes these things happen. Not that they happen because of God's laws of nature.
Mat 5:45 “That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”
Most Christians will say that everything must happen according to God's plan.”
There are many verses that make it sound like God is in control of everything.
Isa. 45:7, “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace [good], and CREATE EVIL; I the LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS.”Quote
Now, the Father is quite capable of exerting His will to override ours, but has limited Himself to doing only what has been requested by those of faith so as to not “take back” the dominion He gave man.This is another place where many, if not most Christians disagree with you.
They feel like God can not override our free will. They do not even realize that their thinking makes them stronger than God. Otherwise he would do just that and keep trillions of people from burning in hell. Even you say that he has limited himself.
How could God be limited, even if of his own volition, and still be God?
{quote] I believe that during the 1,000 year reign of Christ He will demonstrate how He would have had it done.[/QUOTE]Why do you think that he has let 200,000 years, and still waiting, of mankind suffer while he waits for that reign to happen?
In response to the OP of this thread. I do not believe for a second that any God blessed this pastor with a blizzard so that he could sell more bird seed. That is exactly why I was dumbfounded at the arrogance and ego of his statement.
Tim
Edited to fix quotes
Hi Stu:
There is no use in continuing this conversation with you. I have shared the truth with you, and you don't believe me, and there is no use to try to beat this into your head.
At this point, I do not see anything that I can say or do that will help you to understand, but yet, I hope to see you in heaven enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) Hi Stu: There is no use in continuing this conversation with you. I have shared the truth with you, and you don't believe me, and there is no use to try to beat this into your head.
At this point, I do not see anything that I can say or do that will help you to understand, but yet, I hope to see you in heaven enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I wasn't going to try and beat anything into your head, I think the evidence speaks for itself and anyone in the business of denying it is doing himself a great disservice. You certainly don't hold any kind of ultimate truth as far as I can see. Such a claim is typical of the selfishness and egomania of christianity.I think I do understand your point of view quite well, and the reasons you think the way you do. If you are determined to dust off your shoes then my parting shot would be to encourage you to read more widely than the writings of ancient, ignorant, deluded men.
Stuart
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
I'll be interested to see if you have an intelligent answer to Tim's question “Why do you think that he has let 200,000 years, and still waiting, of mankind suffer while he waits for that reign to happen?”Stuart
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) Hi Stu: There is no use in continuing this conversation with you. I have shared the truth with you, and you don't believe me, and there is no use to try to beat this into your head.
At this point, I do not see anything that I can say or do that will help you to understand, but yet, I hope to see you in heaven enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 97,Did God supply free energy on earth, An Humanity receive's Zero Point Energy Is Passed on to Humanity for free. The demons won't even give a Disaster Zone something That they are obtaining for free.
In Fact, Governments still Use the very Ancient Roman system
The system Became Really Famous an Powerful by cutting off an destroying Jesus life.
Distroying Gods free gift again.A system is a system, an part of the system is.. That The people that operate can run free un accountable. Just as the Haters an Killers of Jesus, (Romans/ Priests) ( Inventors)
Half the power an authority Will be striped from them the Moment People Begin to Do Justice for Jesus Death.
The ressurection is separate..from addressing the Power that cut off an slaughtered Jesus for rising Numbers to a possible revolution.
Just thought I post another Rant an raav!
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2013,16:35) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
I'll be interested to see if you have an intelligent answer to Tim's question “Why do you think that he has let 200,000 years, and still waiting, of mankind suffer while he waits for that reign to happen?”Stuart
Hi Stu:He waits and allows the suffering hoping that people like you and Tim, and others like you, might repent from your unbelief and be saved. He is not willing that any man should perish. He has seen from the beginning until the end all that will be saved, and apparently there are still some who will be saved prior to his coming for the church in the event called the rapture. He will not come until everyone of God's Children are in the fold.
I will give you some scriptures that will support what I have stated above.
Quote 2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 ¶ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Quote Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Actually, he is already reigning at the right hand of God our Father as head of the church, and he is gathering together men unto himself in two bodies, the body of Christ, those who have become a part of his kingdom, and body of Anti-Christ.
Quote 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (charity @ Feb. 28 2013,20:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) Hi Stu: There is no use in continuing this conversation with you. I have shared the truth with you, and you don't believe me, and there is no use to try to beat this into your head.
At this point, I do not see anything that I can say or do that will help you to understand, but yet, I hope to see you in heaven enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 97,Did God supply free energy on earth, An Humanity receive's Zero Point Energy Is Passed on to Humanity for free. The demons won't even give a Disaster Zone something That they are obtaining for free.
In Fact, Governments still Use the very Ancient Roman system
The system Became Really Famous an Powerful by cutting off an destroying Jesus life.
Distroying Gods free gift again.A system is a system, an part of the system is.. That The people that operate can run free un accountable. Just as the Haters an Killers of Jesus, (Romans/ Priests) ( Inventors)
Half the power an authority Will be striped from them the Moment People Begin to Do Justice for Jesus Death.
The ressurection is separate..from addressing the Power that cut off an slaughtered Jesus for rising Numbers to a possible revolution.
Just thought I post another Rant an raav!
Hi Charity:They may run free for a time until they die or until the Lord comes for the church if they are alive at his coming, but no, they will be held accountable for the life that they lived. God will allow a man to do whatsoever his mind desires so that he alone will be responsible for his destiny.
Quote Jhn 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Quote Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 ¶ And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Quote 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 01 2013,08:36) Quote (charity @ Feb. 28 2013,20:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) Hi Stu: There is no use in continuing this conversation with you. I have shared the truth with you, and you don't believe me, and there is no use to try to beat this into your head.
At this point, I do not see anything that I can say or do that will help you to understand, but yet, I hope to see you in heaven enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 97,Did God supply free energy on earth, An Humanity receive's Zero Point Energy Is Passed on to Humanity for free. The demons won't even give a Disaster Zone something That they are obtaining for free.
In Fact, Governments still Use the very Ancient Roman system
The system Became Really Famous an Powerful by cutting off an destroying Jesus life.
Distroying Gods free gift again.A system is a system, an part of the system is.. That The people that operate can run free un accountable. Just as the Haters an Killers of Jesus, (Romans/ Priests) ( Inventors)
Half the power an authority Will be striped from them the Moment People Begin to Do Justice for Jesus Death.
The ressurection is separate..from addressing the Power that cut off an slaughtered Jesus for rising Numbers to a possible revolution.
Just thought I post another Rant an raav!
Hi Charity:They may run free for a time until they die or until the Lord comes for the church if they are alive at his coming, but no, they will be held accountable for the life that they lived. God will allow a man to do whatsoever his mind desires so that he alone will be responsible for his destiny.
Quote Jhn 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Quote Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 ¶ And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Quote 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi dear 97, As it seems the church is not interested in down here, That is why God existence becomes un provable.Between religions an The government system, the earth has no Hope, They will destroy all the goodness to the grave
It seems Jesus came down to be Destroyed, Not to attempt to Sit on the throne an show a superb way.In My Eye's religion is mocking God in Ignorance. (sorry, I now thats insulting, yet not personal! More so, thats the emotion that cannot be conquered.
they, moving the goal 2000 years ago, while hearing the preaching that they must operate two universes as truer than true.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 01 2013,08:22) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2013,16:35) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 28 2013,01:00) enjoying all the good things that God has to offer.
I'll be interested to see if you have an intelligent answer to Tim's question “Why do you think that he has let 200,000 years, and still waiting, of mankind suffer while he waits for that reign to happen?”Stuart
Hi Stu:He waits and allows the suffering hoping that people like you and Tim, and others like you, might repent from your unbelief and be saved. He is not willing that any man should perish.
But is willing that people suffer.Stuart
Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 27 2013,21:20) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 27 2013,12:00) Tim,
In case you forgot
WmQuote
Tim,
What is your thoughts on my post a couple up? I was troubled for years with the claim that “God is in control” especially when given to grieving loved ones as a supposed word of comfort. And then they add to their grief with words on their eternal suffering in hell, the statement “God is in control” sours pretty quick. With this kind of gospel it's no wonder that you atheists are so cynical. But truth is available to all who will search for it. Don't allow these false teachings to “sour” your view of our loving Heavenly Father.Wm
Hi Wm.
I have hesitated answering your question because I believe that your intentions are good and my answer may seem harsh to you.
As always I have appreciated your responses.Tim,
I've found your responses to be thoughtful, polite, and honest, I could ask for no more from an someone of an opposing viewpoint.Quote Quote Quote I do not believe that God is the “cause” of everything. Some people believe that God is in control of everything, some don't.
It has to do with interpreting the bible in a way that makes a person comfortable with what it says. It can be interpreted both ways in every argument.I agree and it is, I have chosen what I see as the one consistent with the character of God in the whole of scripture.
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He made laws (not 10 commandment type, but laws of physics, thermodynamics, etc..) to govern our universe, these resulted in a basic cause and effect environment. Thus storms and most other “natural” occurrence are just that, a natural occurrence. He then gave man dominion allowing for us to work within These “laws” to collectively exert our will in this world.This verse makes it sound as if God makes these things happen. Not that they happen because of God's laws of nature.
Mat 5:45 “That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”
Most Christians will say that everything must happen according to God's plan.”
There are many verses that make it sound like God is in control of everything.
Isa. 45:7, “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace [good], and CREATE EVIL; I the LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS.”Other translations say Isaiah 45:7 (NASB) The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these.
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Now, the Father is quite capable of exerting His will to override ours, but has limited Himself to doing only what has been requested by those of faith so as to not “take back” the dominion He gave man.This is another place where many, if not most Christians disagree with you.
They feel like God can not override our free will. They do not even realize that their thinking makes them stronger than God. Otherwise he would do just that and keep trillions of people from burning in hell. Even you say that he has limited himself.
How could God be limited, even if of his own volition, and still be God?I also believe that God does not override our free will, I see no problem with God not over-ruling man during the 6,000 years He allotted for Man.
Quote Quote I believe that during the 1,000 year reign of Christ He will demonstrate how He would have had it done. Why do you think that he has let 200,000 years, and still waiting, of mankind suffer while he waits for that reign to happen?
In response to the OP of this thread. I do not believe for a second that any God blessed this pastor with a blizzard so that he could sell more bird seed. That is exactly why I was dumbfounded at the arrogance and ego of his statement.
Not sure where 200,000 years came from, but as to the 6,000 years of man's rule I believe we had the opportunity to make this a “Heaven on earth” but we showed our character however God's Son will show us for 1,000 years how it should have been done. I believe judgment will be fair for those rejecting God with a proportional punishment to the level that they failed in exhibiting our love for one another, then they perish.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 01 2013,22:03) Not sure where 200,000 years came from, but as to the 6,000 years of man's rule I believe we had the opportunity to make this a “Heaven on earth” but we showed our character however God's Son will show us for 1,000 years how it should have been done. I believe judgment will be fair for those rejecting God with a proportional punishment to the level that they failed in exhibiting our love for one another, then they perish.
200,000 years refers to the length of time we have existed as homo sapiens.Don't know where you got 6,000 years from. Not sure what you mean by “rule” either.
I think your god should be subjected to some kind of punishment for all the misery it has “allowed” and for all the humans it has killed. You don't seem to see justice like other people do.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 02 2013,06:16) Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 01 2013,22:03) Not sure where 200,000 years came from, but as to the 6,000 years of man's rule I believe we had the opportunity to make this a “Heaven on earth” but we showed our character however God's Son will show us for 1,000 years how it should have been done. I believe judgment will be fair for those rejecting God with a proportional punishment to the level that they failed in exhibiting our love for one another, then they perish.
200,000 years refers to the length of time we have existed as homo sapiens.Don't know where you got 6,000 years from. Not sure what you mean by “rule” either.
I think your god should be subjected to some kind of punishment for all the misery it has “allowed” and for all the humans it has killed. You don't seem to see justice like other people do.
Stuart
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151778690637576Dont worry Stu, Maybe you need to Just try a sacrifice an offering for forgiveness, worked once, still might Work!
which One do ya Pick?
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