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We are like him sons of God. Unlike him we were born in sin. The rebirth through his sacrifice rectifies this.
That's the way I see it.Hi Malcolm.
Heb 4.15
” For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathise with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin”
Different or the same? Weak like us and tempted from within or not? Victorious over temptation or never subjected to our temptations?Quote (malcolm ferris @ April 11 2006,23:25) By man came death so by a man came resurrection.
Man that is born of woman is of few years and full of trouble…
I think it is fitting that since the conception through Eve spelt death for every one of us, and she was linked to this sin undoubtedly for God increased her pain in conception, it is fitting that God in reconciling Himself to man, also redeemed the woman's status by bringing the Messiah through a woman.
But that is not the only reason why it was done this way. It was necessary that the Law be fulfilled by the death of a perfect sacrifice.
The blood sacrifices of natural lambs only spoke of a better blood to come, a blood of identical nature to ours – human blood.
This blood not only covered sin for a season but took it away completely by a spiritual rebirth made possible through the shedding of this blood and the sending forth of the life contained in that blood upon the believer.
The Law says “life for life”. God could only do it by the life of a kinsman, and that had to be a perfect kinsman, one without sin. So it was impossible for natural man to accomplish this.
God appeared to Abraham as a man (Heb 7:1-3) That was God – for He alone is eternal, without father or mother… In that form He did not redeem us – why? In that form He was without father or mother, eternal, without beginning or end, immortal (undying).
So He had to send His Son into the world made in a form like ours to partake of death, and God dwelling in Him, completely identified with him.
It is God's blood that was in Jesus, no part of it can be Mary's for in Acts 20:28 it tells you the blood that the Holy Ghost (God – the Father of Jesus Christ) has purchased the church with is His own blood. Mary had no part in the genetic makeup of Jesus in my opinion…
Hi Malcolm,
Scripture makes no statement that Melchizedek is God. That is surely a human derivation?HEBREWS 7:1-4
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.From what I read here this man had no mother no father no beginning or end…
It couldn't be Jesus Christ therefore, he had a beginning. But it said he was made like the Son of God, in likeness – flesh – I believe this was God appearing before Abraham in the form of a man… (Genesis 18:1) It says it was God who appeared to Abraham…Quote (malcolm ferris @ April 12 2006,05:52) HEBREWS 7:1-4
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.From what I read here this man had no mother no father no beginning or end…
It couldn't be Jesus Christ therefore, he had a beginning. But it said he was made like the Son of God, in likeness – flesh – I believe this was God appearing before Abraham in the form of a man… (Genesis 18:1) It says it was God who appeared to Abraham…
Yes Malcolm,
You believe that but it is not revealed is it?
God does not have flesh.
He is spirit.Malcolm Ferris
Melchisedec was a ‘man’. To say he was without father and without mother and without decent is referring to the fact that he had no genealogy and yet was still a High Priest.
To be a High Priest one had to show their roots going back through the Tribe of Levi to the House of Aaron. Melchisedec had no genealogy. He was a High Priest chosen by YHWH in the same way that Yahshua is a High Priest chosen by YHWH. Yahshua had no claim to being a High Priest as his genealogy was of kingly decent through David.
‘having neither beginning of days, nor end of life’ – this is again referring to the fact that nobody knew anything about him. Nobody knew when he was born or where, how old he was or when he died.
‘but made like unto the Son of God’ – once again we have someone being referred to a Son of God. This is because he had a close personal relationship with God, which is what you would expect of a man choose by YHWH to be his high priest.
He was a man, a High Priest chosen by YHWH and that is all we know about him.
This is how I understand these verses.
Hi RR,
Indeed Jesus is a man as was Melchisidek. He was chosen by God to be a type for the Son of God, a King of rightoeusness and a king of peace.The name of his father and mother is unrecorded but he had parents. His birthdate and the date of his death also does not appear in scripture but those dates were real. He was like the Son of God in these ways as the beginning of the Son was before time and not recorded in detail, and he has eternal life in himself.
The form was human, he appeared, God is invisible spirit, yet he appeared to Abraham, and the form was a man, could eat a calf…
I know God is a Spirit, I know God is not a man…Let me rephrase the following:
Melchisedec was a ‘man’. To say he was without father and without mother and without decent is referring to the fact that he had no genealogy and yet was still a High Priest.
He was born of a father and mother but not having a genealogy means that nobody knew who they were. He was a normal human being but nobody new much about him other than that YHWH had choosen him as High Priest.
Hi RR,
We must be accurate when dealing with treasure.Heb 7.1
“Melchizedek, king of Salem, PRIEST of the Most High God..”It does not say HIGH PRIEST.
John 1:18 No man hath seen (2300) God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
2300 yeaomai theaomai theh-ah’-om-ahee
a prolonged form of a primary verb; TDNT-5:315,706; v
AV-see 20, behold 2, look 1, look upon 1; 24
1) to behold, look upon, view attentively, contemplate (often used of public shows)
1a) of important persons that are looked on with admiration
2) to view, take a view of
2a) in the sense of visiting, meeting with a person
3) to learn by looking, to see with the eyes, to perceiveIt is common in the OT for angels to be called YHWH when they have come in his name to deliver his message. This can be seen in other passages as well.
It was not YHWH who spoke to Abraham it was his representative – an angel.
Quote (Ramblinrose @ April 12 2006,07:48) Let me rephrase the following: Melchisedec was a ‘man’. To say he was without father and without mother and without decent is referring to the fact that he had no genealogy and yet was still a High Priest.
He was born of a father and mother but not having a genealogy means that nobody knew who they were. He was a normal human being but nobody new much about him other than that YHWH had choosen him as High Priest.
Without father, without mother, without beginning of days, or end of life…
This Great man also a King, King of Salem.
This Great man that Abraham had dealings with who was a Preist of the Most High God.
Yet noone knows who his father or mother was, when he was born or died…
Sorry can't see it, Abraham met a man who is said to be YHWH in Gen18 this man had dust on his feet and ate a meal with Abraham, so why would it be so incredible therefore for this Melchizedek to be God in flesh? How hard is it for God to just create a body from the elements to use in this fashion…
This man (Melchizedek) is said to be King of Righteousness, also King of Peace, also King of Salem.
I know Jesus is the Prince of Peace, who is the King?
King of Righteousness – how can a man hold this title?
King of Salem – where? (Ps. 76:2 – Jerusalem?)
Who is King of Salem?Quote (malcolm ferris @ April 12 2006,13:47) Quote (Ramblinrose @ April 12 2006,07:48) Let me rephrase the following: Melchisedec was a ‘man’. To say he was without father and without mother and without decent is referring to the fact that he had no genealogy and yet was still a High Priest.
He was born of a father and mother but not having a genealogy means that nobody knew who they were. He was a normal human being but nobody new much about him other than that YHWH had choosen him as High Priest.
Without father, without mother, without beginning of days, or end of life…
This Great man also a King, King of Salem.
This Great man that Abraham had dealings with who was a Preist of the Most High God.
Yet noone knows who his father or mother was, when he was born or died…
Sorry can't see it, Abraham met a man who is said to be YHWH in Gen18 this man had dust on his feet and ate a meal with Abraham, so why would it be so incredible therefore for this Melchizedek to be God in flesh? How hard is it for God to just create a body from the elements to use in this fashion…
This man (Melchizedek) is said to be King of Righteousness, also King of Peace, also King of Salem.
I know Jesus is the Prince of Peace, who is the King?
King of Righteousness – how can a man hold this title?
King of Salem – where? (Ps. 76:2 – Jerusalem?)
Who is King of Salem?
Hi Malcolm,
You are asking us to believe you when scripture does not state what you state.
We learn from scripture here ahead of any derived opinion such as trinity and I am sure you will agree with this.
Not only does it not state that Melchizidek is God, but it does state he is a priest OF the most high God. It would seem a stretch of the imagination that he was both a priest of God and God Himself?
I agree with Ramblinrose that it was a great angel representing God, a not unusual event in scripture, who was seen in Gen 18.
“For the heavens and the highest heavens cannot contain Him” 2Chr 2.6
So how can a pitiful human body?So what then is the fullness of the Godhead? Is this just a figure of speech or did the Father dwell in His Son? If not then Jesus lied…
What was the question? How can a pitiful human body contain Him?
Who is Jesus? The tabernacle of God?…
There was no beauty that we should desire him, he was despised and rejected of men.
At the end of the bible we see one throne of God and the Lamb, but you only see one on that throne… Jesus said if you see me you see the Father.
That does not make Jesus God. God was IN Christ…If God could create a body to dwell in to be our Savior then who is to tell Him He could not create a body to dwell in to meet Abraham…
Hi Malcolm,
And we too can be temples of God.
As it says in Phillipians
“God is at work in you to will and to do”
Jesus was filled with the fullnes of deity, as Spirit, but God WAS in heaven, and that is why he told us to pray to Him there.My thoughts:
JOHN 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.The Father is with him – not left him alone…
JOHN 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.Who was doing the works?
JOHN 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.Who was the I that was speaking here?
JOHN 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.Who is the Son of Man being spoken of here? Jesus? God?
Hi Malcolm,
The fullness of deity abided in Christ . God was with him as Spirit.
The Spirit spoke through him in Jn 2.19. God raised him.
Jn 3.13
“And no one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven, even the Son of man.”No man has been to heaven. Jesus, the Son of Man and Son of God, has been in heaven and descended from there to partake of flesh in Mary.
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