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Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2012,01:37) Quote (t8 @ June 27 2012,09:39) OK, so you say that he is a prophet, but NOT a malak/angel/messenger.
Yet all English translations in deed say say otherwise.Please provide your evidence for why you disagree with the translators by showing us where they have erred and how it should be translated. Remember, this is the Hot Seat.
Scripture references for you are Haggai 1:13, Malachi 2:7.
In the process, if you could explain why he is a prophet and not a malak, that would also help us to understand your view.
Thanks.
Hi T8,I agree that the limited languages of Hebrew and Greek use the word for Angel as messenger as well.
So you are fighting your shadow if you think I oppose this.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Great you concur then.So men and heavenly beings can both be called or described as malak/angels/messengers.
Your right that it is like chasing my own shadow. Why does it take so long for people acknowledge something that is clearly written for all to see is beyond me. I prefer to keep things simple so we can all move on and get much more done. Instead, we have what I describe as people who like to place burdens upon people. Jesus gives us a light burden.
Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2012,15:00) Not add, but subtract – in more term – I will define them correctly… מַלְאָך malak: ambassador, angel, king, messenger
ἄγγελος aggelos: angel, messenger.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Great you concur again.Horay! Although not horay considering it took multiple pages to establish something that could have taken one page.
Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2012,15:04) Hi Mike, 1. Spirit being. …NOUN
2. YHVH's message. …ADJECTIVEDo you have more definitions to add?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You have yet to prove the adjective use of malak in those verses I gave you. English translations say YHWH's messenger or the messenger of YHWH. But you say it is saying that it is a man who is YHWH messaging.We only ask you to prove your statement.
Where is the smoking gun?I have no problem believing something if you can show me the smoking gun.
Please answer. “I don't know” is an acceptable answer.
Not sure the rules, but I see others are posting here, so a quick thought:
It would be easier for Nick to understand if the discussion was happening in Greek. Well, it wouldn't be easier to understand, (unless he speaks greek) but all his comments would seem rather silly if we were to translate them into Greek.
He would be saying: “No, angel does not mean angel.” He would be saying this over and over and over again. “Angel does not mean angel.” Or, he would be saying: “messenger does not mean messenger.” And: Messenger is not messenger. Or “An angel is not an angel.”
Let's put that whole discussion into a Greek translator, and perhaps Nick will understand the humor of his statements better.
I also wonder if it means anything to anyone that angel and messenger are the same word. Like, perhaps spirit angels/messengers (angels) are primarily known as being angels/messengers (messengers), and hence, that is why spirit angels/messengers are called angels/messengers (messengers/angels).
The greek would really make that more clear.
Quote humans are not called Angels; and you know that
T8 has not proved that they are called Angels either.–ed.
This thread drives me insane. I want you to imagine saying these words in Greek Ed. Actually think about how it would sound for you to say these words in Greek. This whole thread would be ridiculous in Greek.
Quote (t8 @ June 28 2012,16:02) Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2012,15:04) Hi Mike, 1. Spirit being. …NOUN
2. YHVH's message. …ADJECTIVEDo you have more definitions to add?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You have yet to prove the adjective use of malak in those verses I gave you. English translations say YHWH's messenger or the messenger of YHWH. But you say it is saying that it is a man who is YHWH messaging.We only ask you to prove your statement.
Where is the smoking gun?I have no problem believing something if you can show me the smoking gun.
Please answer. “I don't know” is an acceptable answer.
Hi T8, (Link)Malachi: The word may either be an adjective,
' angelic,' or may signify “the angel (messenger) of Jehovah.”God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ June 28 2012,16:17) Quote humans are not called Angels; and you know that
T8 has not proved that they are called Angels either.–ed.
This thread drives me insane. I want you to imagine saying these words in Greek Ed. Actually think about how it would sound for you to say these words in Greek. This whole thread would be ridiculous in Greek.
No need to imagine, David…οι άνθρωποι δεν ονομάζεται καλούνται Άγγελοι? και γνωρίζετε ότι.
Τ8 έχει δεν αποδείχθηκε ότι καλούνται Άγγελοι είτε.Ed J.
Let me guess. You googled “angel adjective”, “messenger of the lord adjective”, or some other similar search term, found this page and use that to justify your statement.
Sorry but that is no smoking gun.
I could google “haggai the angel of the lord” and get a ton of pages that talk about him being an actual angel of the lord.
You need to actually prove that the English translations are wrong because they say “Angel of the LORD” or the LORD's angel.
Show us why the translators got it wrong and you are right.Just show us the smoking gun. Is that not a fair thing to ask before we believe you.
I mean what sort of person would believe you just because you said it?
Certainly not me that is for sure.
I believe you need to test everything and I believe that you need to have a clear answer as to why you believe your statement.Having a predefined belief and then googling your answer is no answer.
Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2012,20:08) No need to imagine, David… οι άνθρωποι δεν ονομάζεται καλούνται Άγγελοι? και γνωρίζετε ότι.
Τ8 έχει δεν αποδείχθηκε ότι καλούνται Άγγελοι είτε.
Ed that means nothing till you show us your working.
When a student writes a mathematical sum and answer down, he either does that because he understands it or he knows how to copy something.That is why teachers ask students to show their working. So they know that the student didn't just repeat or copy something, but actually understands the sum.
Now you seem confident that all references to messenger/angels given to men is used as adjectives and not nouns, yet English translations say otherwise. So please show us how these sentences you quote are using the word as an adjective. I am not saying it is impossible, I just want you to back up what you are saying by showing us your working or understanding on the matter. If it is an opinion, say so. If you don't understand these 2 sentences you quote then say so. If you do understand them, then break them down for us so we can understand how you read them.
See how the English translations do not back up your view.
You don't say “See I will send my angelic”, the angelic of the convenant”, or “Then Haggai the LORD's angelic…”.
- “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.”
- “Then Haggai, the LORD's messenger, gave this message of the LORD to the people: “I am with you,” declares the LORD.”
To declare you view is true, you need to show us how the original language doesn't support the English translations of the Bible in these matters. You need to say that they all erred and that you have the truth and the truth is this because of that.
We are just doing what we have been instructed Ed J. To test all things.
Quote (t8 @ June 28 2012,23:15) Ed J. Let me guess. You googled “angel adjective”, “messenger of the lord adjective”, or some other similar search term, found this page and use that to justify your statement.
Sorry but that is no smoking gun.
I could google “haggai the angel of the lord” and get a ton of pages that talk about him being an actual angel of the lord.
You need to actually prove that the English translations are wrong because they say “Angel of the LORD” or the LORD's angel.
Show us why the translators got it wrong and you are right.Just show us the smoking gun. Is that not a fair thing to ask before we believe you.
I mean what sort of person would believe you just because you said it?
Certainly not me that is for sure.
I believe you need to test everything and I believe that you need to have a clear answer as to why you believe your statement.Having a predefined belief and then googling your answer is no answer.
Hi T8,You seem to be looking at this backwards,
the English translation is inductive of my point.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi T8,
Both the Hebrew word מַלְאָך malak and the Greek word ἄγγελος aggelos are nouns.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,10:45) Hi T8, You seem to be looking at this backwards,
the English translation is inductive of my point.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You have not answered the question because the term, “the LORD's messenger” in English is not an adjective. It is no different to the address of heavenly messengers.Yet you would have us believe that heavenly messengers are addressed differently to human ones.
Show us the smoking gun. Opinions aren't enough if you are to establish a point.
I will wait for your smoking gun evidence. Please address this or admit you are guessing. Be honest that is all I ask.
Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,10:53) Hi T8, Both the Hebrew word מַלְאָך malak and the Greek word ἄγγελος aggelos are nouns.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
How does that support your view then. It is saying the opposite of what you are trying to prove is it not.Quote (t8 @ June 29 2012,09:35) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,10:45) Hi T8, You seem to be looking at this backwards,
the English translation is inductive of my point.God bless
Ed J
You have not answered the question because the term, “the LORD's messenger” in English is not an adjective. It is no different to the address of heavenly messengers.Yet you would have us believe that heavenly messengers are addressed differently to human ones.
Show us the smoking gun. Opinions aren't enough if you are to establish a point.
I will wait for your smoking gun evidence. Please address this or admit you are guessing. Be honest that is all I ask.
Hi T8,Perhaps “verb” is the correct word?
I didn't get “A's” in Endlish in skool.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ June 29 2012,09:36) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,10:53) Hi T8, Both the Hebrew word מַלְאָך malak and the Greek word ἄγγελος aggelos are nouns.
God bless
Ed J
How does that support your view then. It is saying the opposite of what you are trying to prove is it not.
Hi T8,It lends support to your belief.
But the fact that the English translators
translated it the way they did, supports my belief.I guess we end it where we started – a happy draw!
You can continue to believe men are called Angels – I cannot.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,20:55) Quote (t8 @ June 29 2012,09:36) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,10:53) Hi T8, Both the Hebrew word מַלְאָך malak and the Greek word ἄγγελος aggelos are nouns.
God bless
Ed J
How does that support your view then. It is saying the opposite of what you are trying to prove is it not.
Hi T8,It lends support to your belief.
But the fact that the English translators
translated it the way they did, supports my belief.I guess we end it where we started – a happy draw!
You can continue to believe men are called Angels – I cannot.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
edjNO it is not a draw ,only in your mind it is ,your ego as blocked the way to your heart and humbleness ,
you can fool men but not God and you can not fool all the men all the time
how could it be a noun
the word messenger is a word that qualify the being or dog use to do the delivery of the message is it not ???is” carpenter” the name of the guy that came install your kitchen cabinets unless his name his JOHN Carpenter,right ???yesHi Pierre,
I have killed the ego long ago.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,21:16) Hi Pierre, I have killed the ego long ago.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJYOU MAY THINK IT BUT THE WAY YOU TALK AND ARGUE IT IS NOT DEAD IT IS WELL AND ALIVE ,
Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2012,14:25) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,21:16) Hi Pierre, I have killed the ego long ago.
Ed J
EDJYOU MAY THINK IT BUT THE WAY YOU TALK AND ARGUE IT IS NOT DEAD IT IS WELL AND ALIVE ,
Your negative opinions carry little to no meaning.Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,21:36) Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2012,14:25) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,21:16) Hi Pierre, I have killed the ego long ago.
Ed J
EDJYOU MAY THINK IT BUT THE WAY YOU TALK AND ARGUE IT IS NOT DEAD IT IS WELL AND ALIVE ,
Your negative opinions carry little to no meaning.
edjyes little Nick
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