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Hi tt,
Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:He said he was son of man and I believe him.
We can follow a man.Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,22:03) 942767 said: Quote esus trusted in God, and therefore, he did not worry. And we also, as God's children should trust in God, and not worry. I don't worry because I trust in God's promises. That men who do not know God worry that much is true, but I don't know of any law which says that anyone with a human nature “must worry”. These worry because of the uncertainties of their lives.
Marty,
All men are prone to worry and fear. And all men at some point worry or fear. This is human nature and Jesus never worried or feared. Therefore. He did not have a human nature. Physhologically He was Divine alone.What Scripture can you offer that proves your assertion that Jesus “trusted” God.
thinker
Hi thethinker:Tell me if Jesus was not fearing what he had to go through here:
Quote Luk 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Also, I did worry before I had a personal relationship with God, but I do not worry now because I trust in God's promises.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2009,07:28) Hi tt,
Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:He said he was son of man and I believe him.
We can follow a man.Jesus is the Son of Man. But the Son of Man originated from heaven
Quote No man has ascended into heaven except He who came down from heaven, the Son of man (John 3:13) The Son of man is from heaven. A man who is from heaven cannot have a human nature, at least not as we know it.
thinker
Hi tt,
Theology does not rule scripture.
Neither does human logic.Never mind his origins scripturally he is a man.
Quote Seeking,
You're correct that it says they “feared” which of course we know has a strong element of worry to it. I fail to see how your parsing words will disprove me.Thinker,
You “Think” to much! (I think I know where you're going to go with this and I am ready.) And, “you are ready.” KUDOS to you.
Why can't you just answer a simple inquiry which goes like this –
Seeking said:What version do you use that translates “worry” in verse 38 where the versions I read use “care”? In verrse 41 you again insert “worried” where the versions I read say “feared.”
The answer sounds something like this – the New Living Translation or The Good News Bible, etc.
Quote We must discuss this because it is crucial to my thought. Really now! You would presume to dictate our Biblical understanding, what “we MUST discuss”, anything else?
Your influence here is having the same impact, to poster and reader alike, that it has had elsewhere. That there are at least two opinions regarding Jesus having a human nature is obvious. Of course you would have us believe we and “our” scholars are ignorant and you and yours are right.
Your cry is, “long live appolinarius.” Mine is, Mat21:9 …”Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”
Blessings in your walk with the Lord,
Seeking
942767 said:
Quote Tell me if Jesus was not fearing what he had to go through here: Quote
Luk 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Marty,
First, the narrative does not say that Jesus was worried. It says that He was in “agony” which is not the same thing.Second, the hour had now come for Him to suffer and this is when He yielded up His power to weakness. Hebrews 7 says that Jesus possessed the “power of an indestructible life” in contrast to mortal men,
Quote [He] has become a priest , not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:16) He had not suffered agony until the time came for Him to yield up His power to weakness. Jesus did not have a mortal nature until He yielded up His power to weakness. Therefore, He did not have a human nature.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,22:20) t8 said: Quote Humans worry because their nature is in a fallen state. Jesus came in the weakness of flesh, but he was without sin and he had faith. Jesus had no human weakness.
Quote And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the regulation as to his ancesrty but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:15-16) Did you catch this!? Jesus' appointment as high priest was on the basis of the power of His indestructible life!
Long live Apollinarius!!
again,
Quote For the law appoints men as high priests who have weakness. But the oath, which came after the law appointed the Son. (Heb. 7:28) This clearly infers that Jesus has no weakness because He was NOT appointed by the law but by oath. Jesus was incapable of death because He had no sin!! It wasn't until OUR sins were laid upon Him that He was able to die!
Therefore, Jesus had only one Divine nature.
Where does the Bible say that Jesus had faith in God?
thinker
Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—Philippians 2:6-7
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.He shared in our humanity, he came in the flesh. Even though he existed in the form of God he emptied himself and became as one of us.
2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 18 2009,11:51) He had not suffered agony until the time came for Him to yield up His power to weakness. Jesus did not have a mortal nature until He yielded up His power to weakness. Therefore, He did not have a human nature.
A question for you thinker.Adam and Eve had eternal life (before sin), so did they have human nature or not?
Hi tt,
[He] has become a priest , not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:16)
Indeed he died and was raised from the dead, the prediction concerning the great prophet was fulfilled.
Acts3
22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 18 2009,11:51) 942767 said: Quote Tell me if Jesus was not fearing what he had to go through here: Quote
Luk 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Marty,
First, the narrative does not say that Jesus was worried. It says that He was in “agony” which is not the same thing.Second, the hour had now come for Him to suffer and this is when He yielded up His power to weakness. Hebrews 7 says that Jesus possessed the “power of an indestructible life” in contrast to mortal men,
Quote [He] has become a priest , not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:16) He had not suffered agony until the time came for Him to yield up His power to weakness. Jesus did not have a mortal nature until He yielded up His power to weakness. Therefore, He did not have a human nature.
thinker
Hi thethinker:He has power of an indestructible life now, after the resurrection from the dead, not before.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote Marty,
First, the narrative does not say that Jesus was worried. It says that He was in “agony” which is not the same thing.Thinker also observed conveniently –
Quote Seeking,
You're correct that it says they “feared” which of course we know has a strong element of worry to it.Catch that, fear, “of course we know has a strong element of worry to it.
But being in “agony” does not carry the same application.
It sure seems appropriate to say, from my experience, he was in “agony” which of course we know has a strong element of worry to it.Quote Second, the hour had now come for Him to suffer and this is when He yielded up His power to weakness. Thinker states Jesus yielded up his power to weakness. Is weakness of the divine nature or is it a human nature attribute?
Quote Jesus did not have a mortal nature until He yielded up His power to weakness. Therefore, He did not have a human Look at that one closely. Thinker admits Jesus had a “mortal”
nature but then states, Therefore he did not have a human nature.” Questiion: Is mortality of the divine or human nature?Blessings in your walk with the Lord,
Seeking
Quote You “Think” to much! (I think I know where you're going to go with this and I am ready.) And, “you are ready.” KUDOS to you. I said I “think” I know, not that I know.Really now! You would presume to dictate our Biblical understanding, what “we MUST discuss”, anything else?
Quote Your influence here is having the same impact, to poster and reader alike, that it has had elsewhere. That there are at least two opinions regarding Jesus having a human nature is obvious. Of course you would have us believe we and “our” scholars are ignorant and you and yours are right. The last part of your statement is not fair. I don't refer to “sources.” About the first part of your statement I ask you: God sorrowed and greived that He had made man upon the earth (Genesis 6:6). So how can your reference to Jesus' sorrow and grief be proof that He had a human nature seeing that God does this too?
thinker
t8 said:
Quote Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— Agreed. I have never denied that Jesus had real flesh and blood. But He was the Logos in the flesh and therefore had complete power over it the whole time. Mere men do not have such power. He chose the time of His death. He could not have died before His hour had come. And even on the cross He yielded up the spirit at His own will.
thinker
942767 wrote:
Quote He has power of an indestructible life now, after the resurrection from the dead, not before. He did have the power of an indesrtuctible life before for these reasons:
1. Because He had no sin. A sinless man cannot die because death is the consequence of sin. Jesus could not die until our sin was laid upon Him. It was not until then that He could ever know death at all.
2. His body was as Adam's was before the fall, before Adam had sinned. Adam could not have died before the fall.
3. Jesus' indestructibility in Hebrews 7 is according to the likeness of Melchizedek's endless life.
4. Jesus said that no man could take his life from Him. He said that it was within His own authority to lay it down for death and to take it up again.
Quote No man takes it from Me. I lay it down on my own accord. I have the authority to lay it down and to take it up again (John 10:18) .
Though His flesh was destructible He himself was not. He was indesrtuctible in Himself. He had a fleshly nature as we all do with the animals. But He had absolute authortiy over His flesh. Therefore, he did not have a human nature. A mere human has no such authority over his flesh. We have power to eat healthy and drive safely to insure to some extent that we may live long. But we do not have absolute authority to live or die at will. Nor do we have power over another driver that may jump a median strip on the highway and hit us head on.
Jesus was Logos alone in His mind. The “human nature” resides in the mind and not the flesh. Since the Logos is the divine mind alone, then the mind of Jesus had only a divine nature.
thinker
Seeking said:
Quote Look at that one closely. Thinker admits Jesus had a “mortal”
nature but then states, Therefore he did not have a human nature.” Questiion: Is mortality of the divine or human nature?Seeking,
Earlier this morning I posted this to Marty,Quote Though His flesh was destructible He himself was not. He was indestructible in Himself. He had a fleshly nature as we all do with the animals. But He had absolute authortiy over His flesh. Therefore, he did not have a human nature. A mere human has no such authority over his flesh. We have power to eat healthy and drive safely to insure to some extent that we may live long. But we do not have absolute authority to live or die at will. Nor do we have power over another driver that may jump a median strip on the highway and hit us head on. Jesus was Logos alone in His mind. The “human nature” resides in the mind alone and not in the flesh. Since the Logos is the divine mind alone, then the mind of Jesus had only a divine nature.
thinker
Hi tt,
Melchizedek did not have an endless life.
He was a man too.But because the end is not recorded God used it as a simile.
Hello all,
I would like to point out an observation that Jesus “became” a priest and the indestructible life was after resurrection. It was after resurrection that He “became” a priest.Heb 7:15-17
15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”
NASUSince Jesus's resurrection and receiving of an indestructible life, He became a priest forever more.
LU
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,23:41) Quote QUOTE]So how can your reference to Jesus' sorrow and grief be proof that He had a human nature seeing that God does this too? You have proved it for us –
Quote Thinker
Second, the hour had now come for Him to suffer and this is when He yielded up His power to weakness.Quote
The last part of your statement is not fair. I don't refer to “sources.”Your statement is unbelievable! You have referred to Appolinarius, Lexicons, the Roman Catholic Church and more.
Would you really have us believe, in your studies, you do not use reference material?Blessings in yur walk with the Lord,
Seeking
Hi TT,
You say
“He chose the time of His death. He could not have died before His hour had come. “
Could you die before your time has come?
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