Anti-trin…

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 14 2010,11:54)

SF…….Seek the Spirit of Truth and (IT) will (reveal the truth to you, be careful of some scriptures and things some say they have been tampered with by Man. But the Spirit (OF TRUTH) will guide you into (ALL truth). It is not of Man but of GOD given to His Childern.  Remember what Jesus said, GOD (reveals) the truth in our minds, and that was the (POWER) He would build the Church ON. “NO YOU NOT YOU SHALL (ALL) BE TAUGHT (BY) GOD”.  Those who have GOD Spirit of Truth in them can not be decieved because of the Spirit (INTELLECT) of truth (IN) them it is (not possible) for them to be decieved. Peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

Most what i base my points on, is with my own personal relationship with God.

I love God alot…. even though i am nothing, He loves me.

Im really in love.

If we love God, than we would love eachother.

but i dont understand what your point is?
your point is referrring to what?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,09:18)

Hi SF, Have you not heard Peter at pentecost?[Acts 2.38-9] Nothing has changed.

Do you care about people who go to hell?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:17)

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:39) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:04) Scripture says for us to PREACH THE GOSPEL so that they can  believe How can you be silent, as people go to hell? SF before you can teach you have to learn ,learn what is true and what is not true ,the truth is Gods word but you have to read and understand it ask questions and pray and put to practice the things you have understood if you do not your truth you have learn will not stand in time. you also have to get rid of all false teachings like the trinity and other idols,all this as you move along your study of the scriptures. Pierre What does that relate to what im saying. Your not understanding my point.   If someone makes statements and points about God, and than say they have the truth, yet are not worried about those who dont have the truth than there is something wrong there. What does the Trinity got to do with what im saying.   I cant stand it when you tell me. well you have to believe because i said so.   Thats basically what everyone does who makes a  direct statement or comment and yet make no validation, or have any claims to back it up.   I mean express your self.   Thats the point! If you believe im going to hell, and you say you love God, what would stop you (other than forcing me), from trying to help me. Why would you only stop with direct comments with no explanation or any infactuation for my soul. Where is the love with that. Its like ya assume im hanging from the bridge, because i dont have the truth, ok, so if you have the rope to pull me in why wouldnt you  use it?   Bc Jesus is the Rope, and all you have to do is Preach. Thats my point. You someone repeat what im saying pls!?

SF

no one as the truth ,the truth is in the word of God ,that book we all have ,so read it and understand it if you have a question we will help you in your quest but do not ask to do the work for you ,like given you all the answer before the exams type;
that were all arguments starts,you have to do your home work
just like all of us did it before you.

and read my comment again and understand it you may see it and understand what i say and did not say.

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,12:27)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:17) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:39) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:04) Scripture says for us to PREACH THE GOSPEL so that they can  believe How can you be silent, as people go to hell? SF before you can teach you have to learn ,learn what is true and what is not true ,the truth is Gods word but you have to read and understand it ask questions and pray and put to practice the things you have understood if you do not your truth you have learn will not stand in time. you also have to get rid of all false teachings like the trinity and other idols,all this as you move along your study of the scriptures. Pierre What does that relate to what im saying. Your not understanding my point.   If someone makes statements and points about God, and than say they have the truth, yet are not worried about those who dont have the truth than there is something wrong there. What does the Trinity got to do with what im saying.   I cant stand it when you tell me. well you have to believe because i said so.   Thats basically what everyone does who makes a  direct statement or comment and yet make no validation, or have any claims to back it up.   I mean express your self.   Thats the point! If you believe im going to hell, and you say you love God, what would stop you (other than forcing me), from trying to help me. Why would you only stop with direct comments with no explanation or any infactuation for my soul. Where is the love with that. Its like ya assume im hanging from the bridge, because i dont have the truth, ok, so if you have the rope to pull me in why wouldnt you  use it?   Bc Jesus is the Rope, and all you have to do is Preach. Thats my point. You someone repeat what im saying pls!? SF no one as the truth ,the truth is in the word of God ,that book we all have ,so read it and understand it if you have a question we will help you in your quest but do not ask to do the work for you ,like given you all the answer before the exams type; that were all arguments starts,you have to do your home work just like all of us did it before you. and read my comment again and understand it you may see it and understand what i say and did not say. Pierre

I agree with you, but you commented on a comment i was making to nick and didnt understand it.

I believe firmly that one must grab there bible, go into a closet and pray and pray, read and read, and let God be the teacher.

I agree in that.

Now when it comes to people who are going to hell,
and for those who know the truth,

can you only stop on mere words.

your not going to pray for me?
your not going to love me?
your just going to leave me hanging?

is that it.

if im wrong and everythign i believe is wrong,

not that you can save me, but the truth in you who is God, can.

Why would you withold that from someone who is going to hell.

Thats my point.

If someone is going to be a moderator of my life, instead of being my brother in christ, than there is something wrong there.

if somone is just giong to sit there and point and laugh as im falling in a pit, than they have no love.

see the differnce?

are you understanding me?

look into scripture,
Jesus says for us to love eachother

1 John 4:20 “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”

If i was your literal brother is your effort only going to stop with words without cliams or any other effort for a soul that God wants?

What would God do for my soul…. well he did send his only Begotten Son to save me..

I dont understand why you would sit and watch someone go to hell, I cant do that! i care! i care abuot you and everyone!

I love you,

real question is do you love me as God loves me?

[942767]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,07:16)

Question to all of those who are anti-trine… idk how to spell it… I would really like to understand two things? Of two scriptures, and i hope that ya dont take it as myself being agressive, or antagonizing ya. I really would like to know your interpretation of two scriptures.  and compare with others if you like. John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.” -:33 “The Jews answred him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” – So the jews believe that Jesus was saying that he was God? Was Jesus saying that he was one with God? I know that Later he says that the Father is greater than him, but of course he is at that current limited state of humanity. ————————————- Second about the Holy Spirit John 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  16A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.” Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well? ————- Beside that… can we please pray and ask God for his input as your making your conclusions. Is it possible for us to be wrong?  as in me being a human being can i be wrong? As in individual can you be Wrong?

Hi SF:

I thought I posted an answer to this, but somehow, it does not show, and so, I'll do it again. If this shows up twice, then you will know why.

The answer to your first question is found in the following scriptures;

Quote

John 10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

And,

Quote

18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

As for the second question:

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, and so I do not see from what Jesus said that the Holy Spirit owns anything.

You say:

Quote

Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well?

Jesus said the all that the Father has is his. He is God's heir, and we are joint heirs with him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (942767 @ May 14 2010,12:50)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,07:16) Question to all of those who are anti-trine… idk how to spell it… I would really like to understand two things? Of two scriptures, and i hope that ya dont take it as myself being agressive, or antagonizing ya. I really would like to know your interpretation of two scriptures.  and compare with others if you like. John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.” -:33 “The Jews answred him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” – So the jews believe that Jesus was saying that he was God? Was Jesus saying that he was one with God? I know that Later he says that the Father is greater than him, but of course he is at that current limited state of humanity. ————————————- Second about the Holy Spirit John 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  16A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.” Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well? ————- Beside that… can we please pray and ask God for his input as your making your conclusions. Is it possible for us to be wrong?  as in me being a human being can i be wrong? As in individual can you be Wrong? Hi SF: I thought I posted an answer to this, but somehow, it does not show, and so, I'll do it again.  If this shows up twice, then you will know why. The answer to your first question is found in the following scriptures; Quote John 10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. And, Quote 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. As for the second question: The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, and so I do not see from what Jesus said that the Holy Spirit owns anything. You say: Quote Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well? Jesus said the all that the Father has is his.  He is God's heir, and we are joint heirs with him. Love in Christ, Marty

I responded back in the other forum

check out verse 14:

shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Its referring the holy spirit

so you tell me: but post your reponse in this forum bc
the other one is related to something else.

[GeneBalthrop]

SF……..My point is referring to the (recognizing of TRUTH) it is given to us is by The (SPIRIT) of TRUTH. To be (cognate) of the truth of GOD takes the SPIRIT(intellect) of GOD. That is what God give us (THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH). It (the Spirit) reveals the Truth of GOD into our minds. We are comforted by this knowledge taking place (IN) us, that is why Jesus called it the comforter. Truth is a stabilizing force in us, giving us a sound mind and love toward God and Man. IMO

[942767]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:55)

Quote (942767 @ May 14 2010,12:50) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,07:16) Question to all of those who are anti-trine… idk how to spell it… I would really like to understand two things? Of two scriptures, and i hope that ya dont take it as myself being agressive, or antagonizing ya. I really would like to know your interpretation of two scriptures.  and compare with others if you like. John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.” -:33 “The Jews answred him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” – So the jews believe that Jesus was saying that he was God? Was Jesus saying that he was one with God? I know that Later he says that the Father is greater than him, but of course he is at that current limited state of humanity. ————————————- Second about the Holy Spirit John 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  16A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.” Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well? ————- Beside that… can we please pray and ask God for his input as your making your conclusions. Is it possible for us to be wrong?  as in me being a human being can i be wrong? As in individual can you be Wrong? Hi SF: I thought I posted an answer to this, but somehow, it does not show, and so, I'll do it again.  If this shows up twice, then you will know why. The answer to your first question is found in the following scriptures; Quote John 10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. And, Quote 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. As for the second question: The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, and so I do not see from what Jesus said that the Holy Spirit owns anything. You say: Quote Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well? Jesus said the all that the Father has is his.  He is God's heir, and we are joint heirs with him. Love in Christ, Marty I responded back in the other forum check out verse 14: shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Its referring the holy spirit so you tell me: but post your reponse in this forum bc the other one is related to something else.

Hi SF:

The Holy Spirit shall receive of mine and show it to you. The Holy Spirit will lead us unto all truths in the Word of God is the way I understand this.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (942767 @ May 14 2010,13:02)

The Holy Spirit will lead us unto all truths in the Word of God is the way I understand this.

hi Marty,

Where are you getting that from though.

I mean yes that God will lead us to all truth,
but where did you get the word of God from that scripture?

Jesus said
he shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Its referring the holy spirit

So he saying that first the holy spirit will glorfiy him,

as in give glory.

and than he says that the holy spirit will recieve something that Jesus has in possesion
and than says based on that receivng that the Holy spirit will show us?
or the comforter

I dont understand how the Word of God is mentioned?

i guess what im trying to do is focus on that scripture to understand it better, i wanted to see how anti-trini viewed it.

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:42)

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,12:27) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:17) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:39) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,09:04) Scripture says for us to PREACH THE GOSPEL so that they can  believe How can you be silent, as people go to hell? SF before you can teach you have to learn ,learn what is true and what is not true ,the truth is Gods word but you have to read and understand it ask questions and pray and put to practice the things you have understood if you do not your truth you have learn will not stand in time. you also have to get rid of all false teachings like the trinity and other idols,all this as you move along your study of the scriptures. Pierre What does that relate to what im saying. Your not understanding my point.   If someone makes statements and points about God, and than say they have the truth, yet are not worried about those who dont have the truth than there is something wrong there. What does the Trinity got to do with what im saying.   I cant stand it when you tell me. well you have to believe because i said so.   Thats basically what everyone does who makes a  direct statement or comment and yet make no validation, or have any claims to back it up.   I mean express your self.   Thats the point! If you believe im going to hell, and you say you love God, what would stop you (other than forcing me), from trying to help me. Why would you only stop with direct comments with no explanation or any infactuation for my soul. Where is the love with that. Its like ya assume im hanging from the bridge, because i dont have the truth, ok, so if you have the rope to pull me in why wouldnt you  use it?   Bc Jesus is the Rope, and all you have to do is Preach. Thats my point. You someone repeat what im saying pls!? SF no one as the truth ,the truth is in the word of God ,that book we all have ,so read it and understand it if you have a question we will help you in your quest but do not ask to do the work for you ,like given you all the answer before the exams type; that were all arguments starts,you have to do your home work just like all of us did it before you. and read my comment again and understand it you may see it and understand what i say and did not say. Pierre I agree with you, but you commented on a comment i was making to nick and didnt understand it.   I believe firmly that one must grab there bible, go into a closet and pray and pray, read and read, and let God be the teacher.   I agree in that. Now when it comes to people who are going to hell, and for those who know the truth, can you only stop on mere words. your not going to pray for me? your not going to love me? your just going to leave me hanging? is that it. if im wrong and everythign i believe is wrong, not that you can save me, but the truth in you who is God, can.   Why would you withold that from someone who is going to hell. Thats my point. If someone is going to be a moderator of my life, instead of being my brother in christ, than there is something wrong there. if somone is just giong to sit there and point and laugh as im falling in a pit, than they have no love. see the differnce? are you understanding me? look into scripture, Jesus says for us to love eachother 1 John 4:20 “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?” If i was your literal brother is your effort only going to stop with words without cliams or any other effort for a soul that God wants?   What would God do for my soul…. well he did send his only Begotten Son to save me.. I dont understand why you would sit and watch someone go to hell, I cant do that! i care! i care abuot you and everyone! I love you, real question is do you love me as God loves me?

SF

how can only contemplate to hate you ?? i do not know you personally,as for me talking to you does this not show my concern about you ??

who says you go to hell??
you should know the scriptures so you say ,why do you say those things??

i do not force you in any way ,the scriptures may do that but not me.

first what kind of help are you looking for in this forum??

no one men has the truth ,the truth is written in scriptures.

we can direct you ,guide you ,but it is you who as to do the work of studying all comments.

[GeneBalthrop]

Marty …….> you have said it right The HOLY SPIRIT is the true teacher and gives recognition of the truth. “For the Spirit (BOTH) accuses us and defends Us”. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………..gene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,13:09)

SF how can only contemplate to hate you ?? i do not know you personally,as for me talking to you does this not show my concern about you ?? who says you go to hell?? you should know the scriptures so you say ,why do you say those things?? i do not force you in any way ,the scriptures may do that but not me. first what kind of help are you looking for in this forum?? no one men has the truth ,the truth is written in scriptures. we can direct you ,guide you ,but it is you who as to do the work of studying all comments.

lol sorry maybe i got to dramatic.

this is more directed to nick.

because he makes claims, and assuming he is right, than many people are going to hell.

i honestly dont believe im going there.

but thats my point, if he does believe that, why would he stop only on words, or anyone on that fact.

lol in other words im not asking for help,

but if someone is telling me im wrong, or another is wrong,
why would you only point out that they are wrong, and thats it.

again its like i make a random commment

saying: Ok well your wrong, you need to pray more

as in example.

Is that it? is that all we can do? or is there more?

That was point,

sry i got a bit dramatic about it.

[NickHassan]

Hi SF,
Going to Hell?
The decision point for men is whether or not they believe in and obey the Son.[Jn3. Jn16.9]

You must be born again

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,13:15)

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,13:09) SF how can only contemplate to hate you ?? i do not know you personally,as for me talking to you does this not show my concern about you ?? who says you go to hell?? you should know the scriptures so you say ,why do you say those things?? i do not force you in any way ,the scriptures may do that but not me. first what kind of help are you looking for in this forum?? no one men has the truth ,the truth is written in scriptures. we can direct you ,guide you ,but it is you who as to do the work of studying all comments. lol sorry maybe i got to dramatic. this is more directed to nick. because he makes claims, and assuming he is right, than many people are going to hell. i honestly dont believe im going there. but thats my point, if he does believe that, why would he stop only on words, or anyone on that fact. lol in other words im not asking for help, but if someone is telling me im wrong, or another is wrong, why would you only point out that they are wrong, and thats it. again its like i make a random commment saying:  Ok well your wrong, you need to pray more as in example.   Is that it? is that all we can do? or is there more? That was point, sry i got a bit dramatic about it.

SF

just remember we only know you trough your quotes and posts.

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,13:08)

Quote (942767 @ May 14 2010,13:02) The Holy Spirit will lead us unto all truths in the Word of God is the way I understand this. hi Marty, Where are you getting that from though. I mean yes that God will lead us to all truth, but where did you get the word of God from that scripture? Jesus said he shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Its referring the holy spirit So he saying that first the holy spirit will glorfiy him, as in give glory. and than he says that the holy spirit will recieve something that Jesus has in possesion and than says based on that receivng that the Holy spirit will show us?   or the comforter I dont understand how the Word of God is mentioned? i guess what im trying to do is focus on that scripture to understand it better, i wanted to see how anti-trini viewed it.

Hi SF:

The key is in the following scripture:

Jesus states:

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth

And so, we see that the Word of God is truth that the Holy Spirit will teach us.

God is glorifying His Son by His Holy Spirit. All power and authority in heaven and earth has been given unto him, and no man can come to Him except by believing His testimony regarding His Son, and having been born again, we have been translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Proclaimer]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,07:16)

John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.” -:33 “The Jews answred him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.”

To SimplyForgiven.

The irony here is that Jesus said earlier in verse 29,
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all.

Besides verse 29, you could have answered your own questions if you didn't hold a Trinitarian bias. Here are the answers to your two questions.

1) Jesus also said that we can be one with him and the Father. And one with each other. This unity was never suppose to support the Trinitarian idea that the Father and he son are both members of a God substance.

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

2) When the Jews said that Jesus was making himself out to be God, did Jesus say that he was, or did he correct their assumption, and say that he was the son of God and that they too were 'theos' meaning sons.

John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'

John 10:36b
…”Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?”

Jesus never said nor hinted that their accusation was right. Rather, he taught them the correct use of 'theos' by pointing out what was written in the OT, 'I have said you are gods' (theos). Here it is in the same text, and a clue is given:

John 10:35 (English-NIV).
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came

[mikeboll64]

Thank you t8!

Finally! That is the simple truth to answer the question Dennison put forth. “The Father and I are one” doesn't mean Jesus is God anymore than, “my hope is that they will be one with us” implies that we will be God.

I read all 4 pages of this thread and kept thinking, “WHY DOESN'T SOMEBODY JUST SAY THAT?”

peace and love,
mike

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2010,14:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2010,14:13) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,07:13) Hi Dennison, You said: Quote So the jews believe that Jesus was saying that he was God? Was Jesus saying that he was one with God? I know that Later he says that the Father is greater than him, but of course he is at that current limited state of humanity. Your last sentence, which I bolded, says it all. You can't say that Jesus said the Father is greater because he was in the limited state of humanity, and at the same time believe that the Jews were right in accusing him of being equal to God. Jesus himself corrected the mistaken Jews, didn't he? They were wrong, just as anyone who thinks their mistake proves Jesus was God in the flesh is wrong. You said: Quote Is it saying that everything that Jesus has is from the father, and what Jesus possess the Holy Spirit has as well? No. He says “receive OF mine”, not “receive EVERY SINGLE THING I HAVE”. Is that what you were asking? peace and love, mike Let me correct my statement, the verse before the one i posted says that John 10: 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one. 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand, ———————————————— again let me correct my statement. Jesus said that BEFORE he said that the father and i are one. and than continues. Im not asking to argue against the trinity, im asking for the Interpretation. 2. well second not really because thats confusing…. i didnt ask if the Holy Spirit posseseed everything that Jesus had. im asking for the connection there. i mean it says that everything of the father belongs to the son correct? than it says that the spririt of Truth other words the Holy Spirit is will not speak of himself but what what is received from Christ? it also says after jesus says that everything of the father is his, that he clarifies that therefore thats why he is saying it, that the Spirit of Truth is is taking of what is Jesus, and showing it to us? is that correct or …… is are ya seeing something differnt. i kind of jungled it up a bit, but im sure u can understand the points.. much love bro.

Let me update what i said on the other thread.
im not holding a Trinitarian bias. Who said i was?

Quote

Jesus never said nor hinted that their accusation was right. Rather, he taught them the correct use of 'theos' by pointing out what was written in the OT, 'I have said you are gods' (theos). Here it is in the same text, and a clue is given:

Are you talking about this verse that Jesus talked about?

Psalm 82
” 1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.”

Idk doesnt seem that Jesus was talking abotu the same thing.

if we look again on verse
35: IF he called THEM gods, unto who the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (continuation of his point)

36: say ye of him, whom the father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, (this is a question)
, thou blasphemest; because i said, I am the Son of God?

well to me its saying that first if the writer called them gods, and that word is inspired by God, than it cannot be broken.
in other words why would you say that i blasphme when you know that i have been sanctfied, and sent into the world… and say its wrong for me to say i am the Son of God?

Idk.. thats the way i see it.

I mean the first gods that is mentions they will die, as princes… i think its different. Jesus is says first off that he is differnt from them by saying that he was sanctified and also sent into the world.

I see differnces there. what do you think?
than he says
hey if i dont do the works of my father, dont believe me,

but if i do, why dont you believe?
look at my actions, look what i have done, so that you can understand and know
that the father is in me, and I in Him.

again, im not saying he is talking about the Trinity here,
usually when debating trinity your discussing about three.

im just talking about this one scripture.

what is Jesus saying? are my point invalid?…. or is it ok.. kind of ish?

oh and t8 you cut off the second part of the scripture you mentioned about the Son of God.

remeber he said sanctfied and sent, i think that also should be part of your conclusion. just saying…

Much love bro,

lets keep on swimming!

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 14 2010,13:11)

Marty …….> you have said it right The HOLY SPIRIT is the true teacher and gives recognition of the truth. “For the Spirit (BOTH) accuses us and defends Us”.  IMO peace and love to you and yours…………..gene

I think that david in the other thread would have a problem with what your saying. because assuming he is right, that the holy spirit is an impersonal thing such as blood and water.

[GeneBalthrop]

SF……….The problem with much of what we percieve scripture as saying is not understanding the symbolic language used in scriptures the metaphors and parables and Proverbs used. The bible is full of them, in fact we are told that the book of revelation was Signified (meaning symbolized). It would be easer for us to understand scriptures if we could better understand these symbolic languages. I have found it give scripture greater meaning to understand them , not that i understand them all. There is lots of confusion that exist because of not understanding them. One of the things not really understood of What SPIRIT really is, many think it is a (BEING) or person, rather then what is in a Being or Person. i.e. Satan as a person rather then an adversarial spirit (intellect) (in) a person, or a literal “LAKE” of FIRE rather then a symbol of intense Judgements of GOD, when scripture says he is the consuming Fire and we are tried by fire. The bible if full of these symbols and metaphors and etc, that is why there is so much confusion that exists. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………..gene

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