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Hi WJ,
God Himself was in him reconciling the world to himself.[2Cor13]
God can be at work in you too to will and to do.[Phil2]
You too can be filled with the fulness of God[Eph3]Vessels do not provide the abilities but only submission while the Spirit of God within does the godly works.
Hi WJ,
Try Ps2 when King Jesus rules over mankind and you will see it is God too ruling.
Kiss the Son.Hi WJ,
Whosoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
Even Jesus had to give up his own spirit.
Life in God's Spirit is the offer.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,13:51) You too can be filled with the fulness of God[Eph3]
NHNot true. The scripture you quote is speaking of the corporate Body of Jesus!
No individual can contain all the fulness of God.
What planet are you from?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,14:27) Hi WJ,
Whosoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
Even Jesus had to give up his own spirit.
Life in God's Spirit is the offer.
NickDoes Jesus “have all authorty and power and judgment” or not?
Do you know anyone else in the Universe like that?
Why do you deny Jesus Kingdom and that he himself is not subject to the Father at this time?
Why do you deny that he must reign untill he puts all enemys under his feet? 1 Cor 15:24-26
Jesus will subdue all things to himself…
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby “he is able even to subdue all things unto himself“. Phil 3:21
WJ
WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll64:
Quote Why do you defend the NWT that was translated by a bunch of no names that could not read a single Hebrew or Greek sentence? 
“A bunch of no names.” thinker
WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll64:
Quote Why do you defend the NWT that was translated by a bunch of no names that could not read a single Hebrew or Greek sentence? Keith,
The NWT translators proved themselves to be “no names” because their translation teaches an “incoherent polythiesm” (Wikipedia). Mikeboll would agree that we are prohibited serve no other gods. But then he turns around and says that Jehovah sent a god for us to serve.
Dr. Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature): “A frightful mistranslation.” “Erroneous” and “pernicious” “reprehensible”. “If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists.”
http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Gaien/6470/NWT-hyoban2.html
Mikeboll is a polytheist because he believes that we should serve Jesus Christ who in his thinking is another god.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,06:42) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,14:27) Hi WJ,
Whosoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
Even Jesus had to give up his own spirit.
Life in God's Spirit is the offer.
NickDoes Jesus “have all authorty and power and judgment” or not?
Do you know anyone else in the Universe like that?
Why do you deny Jesus Kingdom and that he himself is not subject to the Father at this time?
Why do you deny that he must reign untill he puts all enemys under his feet? 1 Cor 15:24-26
Jesus will subdue all things to himself…
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby “he is able even to subdue all things unto himself“. Phil 3:21
WJ
Hi WJ,
Jesus, the holy vessel, cannot be apart from God as Spirit.God Who gave him authority also gives him wisdom and power.
God is at work in him too to will and to do.[Phil2]
Hi WJ,
First, you say that Jesus is God. Then you say they can't word things the same way. It's a silly argument anyway – it can't be God talking because of the way it's worded.
Second, no matter what you believe, God is coming to dwell among us in New Jerusalem. That's what the Scriptures say, my friend.
Third, you challenged me to list attributes that God has and you would show Sciptures that say Jesus has them too. I've listed five – where's the Scriptures. If you don't believe them all to be classified technically as “attributes”, then you must admit the first one is. The characteristic of living from forever to forever is most definitely an attribute. Your point is that Jesus and God are equal, so stop playing games about the word “attribute” and start showing me the equality.
Fourth, I wonder how someone could translate Hebrew and Greek into English without speaking it. Do you believe everything you read? Of course the translators of the NWT could read Hebrew and Greek – duh!
I'll now make you a challenge: Show me all the Scriptures in the NWT that are translated wrong. List the Scripture, paste the NWT, then paste the Bible of your choice below it. You can start a new topic. Then we'll check the Hebrew and Greek against it.
But first, answer my five attributes with Scripture, please.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 25 2010,07:28) WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll64: Quote Why do you defend the NWT that was translated by a bunch of no names that could not read a single Hebrew or Greek sentence? “A bunch of no names.” thinker
Hi Thinker,Yes, ha ha, no names. Sometimes I think you must be 10 years old.
Like that's what the NWT translators were striving for – recognition and acknowledgement from Trinitarians. Lame on both you and WJ's part.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 25 2010,07:43) WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll64: Quote Why do you defend the NWT that was translated by a bunch of no names that could not read a single Hebrew or Greek sentence? Keith,
The NWT translators proved themselves to be “no names” because their translation teaches an “incoherent polythiesm” (Wikipedia). Mikeboll would agree that we are prohibited serve no other gods. But then he turns around and says that Jehovah sent a god for us to serve.
Dr. Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature): “A frightful mistranslation.” “Erroneous” and “pernicious” “reprehensible”. “If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists.”
http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Gaien/6470/NWT-hyoban2.html
Mikeboll is a polytheist because he believes that we should serve Jesus Christ who in his thinking is another god.
thinker
Hi Thinker,I just issued a challenge to WJ about the NWT. Feel free to join in. Maybe others on the site will also. Maybe I'll end up eating crow, who knows?
I showed you in Scripture after Scripture in our debate that there are more than one god. You must know more than Paul, who called Satan “the god of this world”. Tell me if angels were ever referred to as gods in the Scriptures. How about Moses? Aaron? The Judges? Satan? Well then, why not Jesus, who is greater than all of them? My question sounds similar to one that Jesus asked the Jews. Now while I know that there is only one true God (Jesus says it is his Father) that we worship as God Almighty, I dare you to say there are no other gods in the Scriptures.
And for you and WJ: Jesus says he was “the beginning of the creation of God”. So, from his beginning he was less than God. Then he said, “the Father is greater”. So while on earth he was less than God. Now he sits at the right hand of God and calls Him “my God”. So even now he is less than God. Later, he will be subjected so God can be all in all. So even in the future he will be less than God. When was there equality?!?
Because he can subdue the things his Father subjected to him? Come on guys, wake up!peace and love,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,20:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,06:42) nick wrote:Hi WJ,
Whosoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
Even Jesus had to give up his own spirit.
Life in God's Spirit is the offer.
NickDoes Jesus “have all authority and power and judgment” or not?
Do you know anyone else in the Universe like that?
Why do you deny Jesus Kingdom and that he himself is not subject to the Father at this time?
Why do you deny that he must reign until he puts all enemies under his feet? 1 Cor 15:24-26
Jesus will subdue all things to himself…
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby “he is able even to subdue all things unto himself“. Phil 3:21
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,20:37) Hi WJ,
Jesus, the holy vessel, cannot be apart from God as Spirit.
Exactly, all the fullness of “Deity” resides in him! Col 2:10Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,20:37) God Who gave him authority also gives him wisdom and power.
A part truth is a lie! Jesus not only HAS “All Authority” but he also has “All Power” and all things are in his hands including all judgment. Matt 28:18 – John 3:35 – John 13:3 – John 5:32Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,20:37) God is at work in him too to will and to do.[Phil2]
This is a distortion of the scripture, and an attempt by you to make Jesus into a mere man. Anathema!Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling“. For it is “God which worketh IN YOU” both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phil 2:12, 13
Jesus doesn't need any salvation, for he is the Saviour and it is he that is working in us…
“Now the Lord is that Spirit“: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, “are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord“. 2 Cor 3:17, 18
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; “which is Christ in you, the hope of glory“: WHOM WE PREACH, WARNING EVERY MAN, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto “I also labour, striving according to HIS WORKING, WHICH WORKETH IN ME MIGHTILY“. Col 1:27-29
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, who “gave himself for us to redeem us” from all wickedness “AND TO PURIFY HIMSELF A PEOPLE that are his very own, eager to do what is good“. Tit 2:13, 14
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,06:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,13:51) You too can be filled with the fulness of God[Eph3]
NHNot true. The scripture you quote is speaking of the corporate Body of Jesus!
No individual can contain all the fulness of God.
What planet are you from?
WJ
Hi WJ,Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,05:51) You too can be filled with the fulness of God[Eph3]
Do you (WJ) believe Jesus was filled with the fullness of God?Col. 1:19 For it pleased [GOD The Father] that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 25 2010,01:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,06:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,13:51) You too can be filled with the fulness of God[Eph3]
NHNot true. The scripture you quote is speaking of the corporate Body of Jesus!
No individual can contain all the fulness of God.
What planet are you from?
WJ
Hi WJ,Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,05:51) You too can be filled with the fulness of God[Eph3]
Do you (WJ) believe Jesus was filled with the fullness of God?Col. 1:19 For it pleased [GOD The Father] that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdThe post was for Nick. Nick understands that I was not speaking of Jesus. Did you even read my post after that?
No mere man can have all the fulness of an infinite God.
But Jesus does! Jesus has the “Holy Spirit” without measure.
WJ
Hi WJ,
So your tradition rules decide over what is written?
You were promised by Jesus you could do greater things than he did.[jn14.12]do you believe this?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,05:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,13:41) Hi WJ,
Since the Jordan Jesus does nothing without the Father[ as Spirit in him] also doing.
NHWell at this time “All authority and Power and Judgment” is in Jesus hands and he is not yet subject to the Father, 1 Cor 15.
Are you still following the servant Messiah?
WJ
WJ….If it is the Father doing the Works (IN) Him , how is it you say he is not subject to the Father , On the one hand you say Jesus has all the attributes of God (IN) him then you say he is not at this time subject to Him , What are the seven Spirit of GOD doing (IN) Him if Not guiding Him in his Mind to do GOD'S WILL. You can not separate GOD from His SPIRITS. Those who Have GOD'S Spirit of Truth in them know the sound of the truth, that Spirit (Intellect) that has been given them from God the Father, is the same as Jesus has in Him. Let this mind be in you that is in Jesus our LORD. “ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL”. IMOpeace and love………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,03:06) Hi WJ,
So your tradition rules decide over what is written?
You were promised by Jesus you could do greater things than he did.[jn14.12]do you believe this?
NHI dont believe it the way you do.
Jesus is not speaking of believers as individuals. He is speaking of his corporate Body that through the Holy Spirit could perform miracles all over the world at the same time.
Is there any Apostle that you read of in the Bible that did greater acts than Jesus?
Didn't think so. Yet you are so arrogant that you believe you can.
When is the last time you fed 5000 with two loaves of bread and a few fish?
To top it off you make yourself equal to Jesus by saying that “YOU” can have all the fulness of the infinite God in you.
Another attempt to show that Jesus is just a mere man like us.
Do you have the Spirit without measure? Has or will there ever be a time when the fulness of Deity resides in you in bodily form?
You are from outerspace also like some others here!
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 25 2010,11:36) WJ….If it is the Father doing the Works (IN) Him , how is it you say he is not subject to the Father ,
GeneRead 1 Cor 15:24-28, for it says he will subject the Kingdom and himself to the Father when all things have been subdued to him, Jesus.
So if he is going to “Subject” the Kingdom and himself to the Father in the future when all things have been subjected to Jesus, then that means he is not subject yet.
Jesus has “ALL” Authority and Power and Judgment and all things are in his hands.
You Anti-Trinitarians used to use these scritpures to prove that Jesus is less than the Father but one day I realized that the scripture supports that he is “Equal” for at this moment he runs the entire show and by him all things consist.
I know this is a real disapointment to you “mere man Jesus followers”. But no mere man or finite being can have “Infinite” Authority and Power and uphold all things by the word of his power. Matt 28:18 – Heb 1:3 – Col 1:17 – Phil 3:21
Blessings WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2010,23:46) Hi WJ, First, you say that Jesus is God. Then you say they can't word things the same way.
MikeTry to take your Arian glasses off for a moment, you say you want to learn but when you are shown the Truth you would rather hold on to your doctrine. It’s obvious that we can distinguish between the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in scriptures. The word “God” does not determine identity. But when it is convenient you guys push it to only mean the Father. The passages being discussed are not the Father speaking and verse 20 proves it. So turn your head if you like!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2010,23:46) It's a silly argument anyway – it can't be God talking because of the way it's worded./quote]
Oh, now it’s a silly argument? I guess I can see why you would look the other way and just deny the facts.mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:Second, no matter what you believe, God is coming to dwell among us in New Jerusalem. That's what the Scriptures say, my friend.
What do you mean no matter what I believe? The scriptures say God dwells in us now? Do you deny these facts also? And no there is no scripture that says the Father is physically coming quickly to the earth. He is already here!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2010,23:46) Third, you challenged me to list attributes that God has and you would show Sciptures that say Jesus has them too. I've listed five – where's the Scriptures. If you don't believe them all to be classified technically as “attributes”, then you must admit the first one is. The characteristic of living from forever to forever is most definitely an attribute. Your point is that Jesus and God are equal, so stop playing games about the word “attribute” and start showing me the equality.
Okay so don’t provide scriptures for your claim. If God is infinite in Authority and Power and he has “post Jesus coming in the flesh Phil 2:6-8” given “ALL AUTHORITY AND POWER AND ALL THINGS INTO JESUS HANDS” then please explain to me how to you he is not “Equal” to the Father?Matt 28:18 – John 3:35 – John 13:3 – John 5:32
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2010,23:46) Fourth, I wonder how someone could translate Hebrew and Greek into English without speaking it. Do you believe everything you read? Of course the translators of the NWT could read Hebrew and Greek – duh!
Still want to beat the dead horse? Seriously Mike you should drop it about the NWT because it is embarrassing you. Why are you sticking your head in the sand? It is obvious that you have been highly indoctrinated by the JWs and Watchtower.If you do not believe what I say about the translators then maybe you would believe an actual court case where Fred Franz could not translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew.
Here are the facts my friend…
B. Unlike every major translation, the NWT paraphrase was produced under a cloud of secrecy.
1.The Organization made this statement about the NWT: “It is the truth rather than its servant that should be honored and proclaimed,” Russell wrote in 1900, adding: “There is too much disposition to credit truth to the preacher, forgetful that all truth is of God, who uses one or another servant in its proclamation as it may please him.” This is the principal reason why writers and translators of Watch Tower publications, as well as members of the New World Bible Translation Committee, choose to remain anonymous. (Awake, Oct 22, 1989, p. 20)
2.During a court trial in Glasgow, Scotland in 1954, Franz was asked by the Government lawyer just who the translators were. Franz replied under oath: “That is an absolute secret. It will never be revealed now or even after death.” Only someone with something to hide would be so intent on secrecy. He was asked: “What happens if somebody submits a translation. Does the committee examine it? Mr. Franz: No. I give it my 0.K., then the President, Mr. N. H. Knorr, has the last word.” He was further asked to explain how “translations and interpretations of the Bible were made.” Franz replied that they emanated from God: “passed to the Holy Spirit who, invisible, communicates with Jehovah's Witnesses – and the publicity department.” (Franz is the head of the Publicity Department).C. The NWT translators were: Nathan Knorr, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, Fred Franz, M. Henschel
•“Fred Franz however, was the only one with sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He had studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only self-taught in Hebrew.” [“Crisis of Conscience”; by Raymond Franz; Commentary Press, Atlanta; 1983 edition; footnote 15; page 50.]
•Four out of the five men on the committee had no Hebrew or Greek training at all. They had only a high school education. Franz studied Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati, but dropped out after his sophomore year. When asked in a Scotland courtroom if he could translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew, Franz replied that he could not. The truth is that Franz was unable to translate Hebrew or Greek.•WHAT WE ARE LEFT WITH IS A VERY INEXPERIENCED TRANSLATING COMMITTEE THAT TWISTED SCRIPTURE TO MAKE IT FIT THE SOCIETY'S DOCTRINE. Source
I suppose these are not things you will hear from the JWs or Kingdom Hall!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2010,23:46) I'll now make you a challenge: Show me all the Scriptures in the NWT that are translated wrong. List the Scripture, paste the NWT, then paste the Bible of your choice below it. You can start a new topic. Then we'll check the Hebrew and Greek against it.
Not interested in wasting my time! As I said go ahead and use it and we will just point out the errors along the way!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2010,23:46) But first, answer my five attributes with Scripture, please. peace and love,
mike
The challenge was made to you first. You didn’t list five attributes, nor did you list scriptures to support your assumptions!Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 26 2010,03:42) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,03:06) Hi WJ,
So your tradition rules decide over what is written?
You were promised by Jesus you could do greater things than he did.[jn14.12]do you believe this?
NHI dont believe it the way you do.
Jesus is not speaking of believers as individuals. He is speaking of his corporate Body that through the Holy Spirit could perform miracles all over the world at the same time.
Is there any Apostle that you read of in the Bible that did greater acts than Jesus?
Didn't think so. Yet you are so arrogant that you believe you can.
When is the last time you fed 5000 with two loaves of bread and a few fish?
To top it off you make yourself equal to Jesus by saying that “YOU” can have all the fulness of the infinite God in you.
Another attempt to show that Jesus is just a mere man like us.
Do you have the Spirit without measure? Has or will there ever be a time when the fulness of Deity resides in you in bodily form?
You are from outerspace also like some others here!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Is it arrogance to believe what Jesus said?In what way does the body of Christ do GREATER THINGS than Jesus did ]Jn14.12] and when did this not involve individual components of the body?
Paul said in Eph 3.19
“..that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God”
so is it him rather than me that you judge as making himself equal to Jesus?
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