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Quote (t8 @ Aug. 18 2011,00:12) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2011,23:07) Mike,
Many can be called gods because someone or something is being worshiped. That is not by God's design, he is against this.
Explain,
“ye are gods, you are all sons of the Most High God”.
And:
“All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols–worship him, all you gods!”
“ye are gods, you are all sons of the Most High God”.Civil magistrates are meant, the rulers and judges of the people, who go by this name of “elohim”, or gods. They were created as men and not as gods.
“All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols–worship him, all you gods!”
Images, idols, and gods are mentioned in this verse. These things are worshiped by men and yet these things will worship Christ. All gods who are worshiped are not created gods but either someone or something or some being that was wrongly exalted by another or wrongly exalted by themselves. They will worship Christ…every knee will bow whether it be in heaven or on earth.
Mike,
Look at what you said:Quote If you are reading “el” or “elohim” in the Hebrew Scriptures, then be prepared for “god” to refer to Jehovah, one of his angels, a demon, or even a human being. And accept it for what it is and how they used the word back then. You even state that the word sometimes translated as God/god refers to…and then you list four possibilities. Well, if it refers to Jehovah then that would be the true God who is and was and will be God. If it refers to some or one of the angels then it is the created angels that is implied, not created gods. If it refers to a demon/demons…we know that demons were angels when they were created and they had fallen with satan. If it refers to a human being, either it is referring to human beings as a specific leader to act as God for God, or judges, magistrates, etc. or human beings that have exalted themselves or have been exalted by others.
Quote Enjoy designing the kitchen. Is it your own, or are you going to design it for someone else? And have fun at the wedding. Don't throw rice, okay? Thanks, I am designing it for a client…one of those dream jobs
Also, the wedding is my son's and isn't until October. I gave my sweet soon-to-be daughter a bridal shower this weekend and everyone seemed to have fun. God was glorified and that is the main thing.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2011,20:33) Mike, Quote There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in any scripture to suggest that Satan, or the gods of Egypt etc, were anything other than exactly what Jehovah Himself called them. Jehovah had more scriptures for me to put up.
Deuteronomy 4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the Jehovah is God; besides him there is no other.
Deuteronomy 32:39 “See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the Jehovah says–Israel's King and Redeemer, the Jehovah Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Isaiah 45:5 I am the Jehovah, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
Seems pretty clear that Jehovah is a compound unity since the Father and Son are both called God. Also, there are no others than Jehovah.
2 Thess 1:12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and Lord Jesus Christ.
satan looses again.
Jehovah, the compound unity of the Father and the Son, wins again!
KathiQuote Deuteronomy 4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the Jehovah is God; besides him there is no other. it does not say ; besides US (him) there is no other
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,08:48) That is right Pierre which makes the case for the unity speaking and acting as one. Kathi
Kathiexplain in more details
Pierre
Hi Kathi,
When Jehovah called Satan the god of Ekron, did He LIE? Or is it that you can read the Most High God's mind, and know that He meant to say “the FALSE god of Ekron”?
When Jehovah said he would render judgment upon the gods of Egypt, did God Almighty LIE when he called them gods? Or are you again just reading the mind of the God of gods?
How about when Paul said there are many gods, both in heaven and on earth? Was Paul also LYING to us? Did Paul LIE to us when he said that Satan was the god of this age?
How about when Jesus, who we all know has been called a god, said that his Father was the ONLY true God? Did Jesus LIE to us also?
All this points to the puzzle piece you've been missing for a long time, Kathi. Satan, Jesus, Molech, Dagon, and the gods of Egypt are all gods that the God OF gods is the God OF.
Jehovah is the God of Satan, yet Satan was called a god by both Paul AND Jehovah Himself. Jehovah is also the God of Jesus, yet Jesus has been called a god. Hmmmm…………that Jehovah guy must be, like, the God OF gods or something, eh?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2011,21:54) They will worship Christ…every knee will bow whether it be in heaven or on earth.
They will do obeisance to Christ, and worship the same God that Christ himself worships and calls “my God”. (Hint, he says that his God is the same God as our God. That fits right in with us being SONS, not BROTHERS, of God. But BROTHERS and JOINT heirs with God's Son Jesus.)Mike,
you asked:Quote When Jehovah called Satan the god of Ekron, did He LIE? I have alread answered this:
Quote I never said that he is not called a god, however, that no way means that he was made to be a god. And I'm saying that if the Most High God over heaven and earth called him a god, then who are YOU to add to or take away from what your God said?
If God calls him a god, then by God, he IS a god. End of story. And end of the fairy tale that Jesus being called a god means anything different than when Satan is called a god.
They are BOTH powerful spirit beings who have been called gods, but NEITHER of them are the God who is THEIR OWN God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2011,21:37) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2011,21:54) They will worship Christ…every knee will bow whether it be in heaven or on earth.
They will do obeisance to Christ, and worship the same God that Christ himself worships and calls “my God”. (Hint, he says that his God is the same God as our God. That fits right in with us being SONS, not BROTHERS, of God. But BROTHERS and JOINT heirs with God's Son Jesus.)
Mike,
If they are doing obeisence to 'a god' then they are in complete violation of God's word…so your doctrine needs to be adjusted drastically. Jesus is not 'a god' but the Lord of lords part of the one Jehovah God. That one Jehovah God (which includes the Lord of lords), creator of heaven and earth will be worshiped whether you agree with it or not.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,20:54) Mike,
If they are doing obeisence to 'a god' then they are in complete violation of God's word…so your doctrine needs to be adjusted drastically.
So if someone did obeisance to Deborah, then they were in violation of some rule?Kathi, they will do obeisance to the SON OF the Most High God. They will do this to the glory OF the Most High God, and at the command OF the Most High God.
Mike,
If God called satan the god of anything it is simply because satan exalted himself and demands worship. God agrees that satan exalted himself and is demanding worship and therefore calls him a god. The gods of Egypt are referred to as their gods not 'His' gods. He did not make anyone gods, the gods made themselves gods. End of fairy tale.Kathi
Mike,
Deborah was a judge, not a god. We are never to bow down to a god Mike. Scripture is clear on this.
2 Kings 17:35 with whom the LORD made a covenant and commanded them, saying, “You shall not fear other gods, nor bow down yourselves to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,20:59) Mike,
If God called satan the god of anything it is simply because satan exalted himself and demands worship.
So then God accepted this self-exaltation and started to refer to Satan as the god that he made himself to be?Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,21:04) Mike, Deborah was a judge, not a god. We are never to bow down to a god Mike. Scripture is clear on this.
2 Kings 17:35 with whom the LORD made a covenant and commanded them, saying, “You shall not fear other gods, nor bow down yourselves to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them.
Kathi
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.WHO exalted Jesus, Kathi? WHO GAVE him the name above every name? And WHO will we confess Jesus as? Lord? Or God? And to WHOSE glory will we do this?
Kathi, you are lost, sister.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2011,22:05) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,20:59) Mike,
If God called satan the god of anything it is simply because satan exalted himself and demands worship.
So then God accepted this self-exaltation and started to refer to Satan as the god that he made himself to be?
Yes, Mike. God certainly acknowledges satan as the evil one and calls him a god because He knows full well that satan is expecting to be worshiped. The fact that satan expects to be worshiped does not elude God. He calls a spade a spade.Kathi
Mike,
you said:Quote WHO exalted Jesus, Kathi? WHO GAVE him the name above every name? And WHO will we confess Jesus as? Lord? Or God? And to WHOSE glory will we do this? The Father exalts the Son who previously lowered HIMSELF. Since He lowered HIMSELF He had taken on an additional identity. We confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. The two persons within the unity called Jehovah, can do these things. The Lord of lords that pre-existed, lowered Himself to become a man, the God of gods exalted His Son since the Son had lowered Himself and even as He is incarnated into flesh was He exalted. The whole being of the Son, according to both natures is now exalted as the Lord of lords and not just the divine nature which always was the Lord of lords.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,21:19) Yes, Mike. God certainly acknowledges satan as the evil one and calls him a god because He knows full well that satan is expecting to be worshiped. The fact that satan expects to be worshiped does not elude God. He calls a spade a spade.
Okay, so after Satan exalted himself as a god, Jehovah then accepted him as a god because He knew Satan wanted to be worshipped?
If I exalt myself to “All Being, Master of Time, Space, and Dimension”, do you suppose that God will then call me as such, knowing full well that I'm not actually what I exalted myself to be?
If God calls a spade a spade, then why not just accept that Satan IS one of the gods that Jehovah is the God OF? If Jehovah is the One calling him a god, then who are YOU to question Him?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,21:37) Mike,
you said:Quote WHO exalted Jesus, Kathi? WHO GAVE him the name above every name? And WHO will we confess Jesus as? Lord? Or God? And to WHOSE glory will we do this? The Father exalts the Son who previously lowered HIMSELF. Since He lowered HIMSELF He had taken on an additional identity. We confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. The two persons within the unity called Jehovah, can do these things. The Lord of lords that pre-existed, lowered Himself to become a man, the God of gods exalted His Son since the Son had lowered Himself and even as He is incarnated into flesh was He exalted. The whole being of the Son, according to both natures is now exalted as the Lord of lords and not just the divine nature which always was the Lord of lords.
Kathi
Kathican you prove that God is not Jehovah but that Christ is Jehovah or any of them are Jehovah ?
NO ;
can you prove that God is the God called Jehovah ? YES scriptures say so
can you prove that Christ is Jehovah ? NO ;no scriptures support that .
but you say that JEHOVAH means both of them ;so under the name of JEHOVAH there is God the father and Christ the son,
BUT CAN YOU PROVE THIS WITH SCRIPTURES ? NO
IT IS HAPPEN ONLY IN YOUR HEAD KATHI ,IT IS AN ILLUSION
IT IS NOT SO ,WAKE UP ,IF YOU CAN .
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,21:37) The whole being of the Son, according to both natures is now exalted as the Lord of lords and not just the divine nature which always was the Lord of lords.
So then the Lord of lords is NOT God. Because God is the ONE who exalted the Lord of lords, right? And it is to the glory of God that all knees will bow to the Lord of lords, right?Ipso-facto: The Lord of lords is NOT the Being referred to as “God”.
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