Ancient Syriac Documents

[terraricca]

Kathi

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My view has been backed with scripture. You don't seem to like all the scriptures. For instance, look at this thread full of scripture. You won't like the scriptures, I can almost guarantee it but never the less, they are found in the Bible. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….90;st=0

I saw your few scriptures you are quoting Romans 9:5Ro 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

Ro 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Ro 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,

the fact that God the father has a son that is the supremacy over all of creation I do not see what is wrong with the title of god for Christ he is after all the son of God

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Congratulations, you understanding is ahead of Mike on this one:

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the fact that God the father has a son that is the supremacy over all of creation I do not see what is wrong with the title of god for Christ he is after all the son of God

Raise the flag!!

Good job on that conclusion!
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,23:12)

Pierre, Congratulations, you understanding is ahead of Mike on this one: Quote the fact that God the father has a son that is the supremacy over all of creation I do not see what is wrong with the title of god for Christ he is after all the son of God Raise the flag!!     Good job on that conclusion! Kathi

Kathi

just remember we are all gods

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Ok Pierre, I take it back…no congratulations to you. Sorry, that was short lived, wasn't it. Your last post lost all your points for you. You just made yourself equal with the only begotten Son of God. Wow!

Let me ask you…did you pre-exist too Pierre? And then did you take on flesh and was the woman who bore you a virgin? Have you always had the nature of God? Were you also an only begotten Son of God? When was the last time you walked on water, or rebuked the wind and the wind stopped, or healed a blind man or raised the dead by your own power? Are you planning on dying to take away the sins of the world, yes, the whole world Pierre? How about having all authority in heaven and on earth, will you have that in your future?

If your answers to those questions are no, then you are not God like the Jesus is. Sorry to burst your bubble. Nobody will be God like Jesus is.
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,00:16)

Ok Pierre, I take it back…no congratulations to you.  Sorry, that was short lived, wasn't it.  Your last post lost all your points for you.  You just made yourself equal with the only begotten Son of God.  Wow!   Let me ask you…did you pre-exist too Pierre?  And then did you take on flesh and was the woman who bore you a virgin?  Have you always had the nature of God? Were you also an only begotten Son of God?  When was the last time you walked on water, or rebuked the wind and the wind stopped, or healed a blind man or raised the dead by your own power?  Are you planning on dying to take away the sins of the world, yes, the whole world Pierre?  How about having all authority in heaven and on earth, will you have that in your future?   If your answers to those questions are no, then you are not God like the Jesus is.  Sorry to burst your bubble.  Nobody will be God like Jesus is. Kathi

Kathi

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Ok Pierre, I take it back…no congratulations to you.  Sorry, that was short lived, wasn't it.  Your last post lost all your points for you.  You just made yourself equal with the only begotten Son of God.  Wow!

     

to be honest I have always believed that Christ is a god but just as Moses was to his brother and to pharaoh

Christ will be forever the intermediary between all of creation and his father

Pierre

[Lightenup]

So Pierre,
you said on this page in your above two posts:

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just remember we are all gods

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to be honest I have always believed that Christ is a god but just as Moses was to his brother and to pharaoh Christ will be forever the intermediary between all of creation and his father

Can you answer these questions:

Let me ask you…did you and Moses pre-exist too, Pierre?  And then did you and Moses take on flesh? Was the woman who bore you  and Moses a virgin?  Have you and Moses always had the nature of God? Were you and Moses also an only begotten Son of God?  When was the last time you and Moses walked on water, or rebuked the wind and the wind stopped, or healed a blind man or raised the dead by your own power?  Are you planning on dying to take away the sins of the world, yes, the whole world Pierre, did Moses eternally redeem anyone's sins against God with his death?  How about having all authority in heaven and on earth, will you have that in your future, does Moses have that now?

Seriously, Pierre, I think your doctrine has you serving the wrong person and I pray that you will ask God to open your eyes and heart.  I think you are in danger.

Praying for you,
Kathi

[Pastry]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 27 2011,08:30)

Mike, Quote But GOD NEVER CHANGES. And that is why we should know that the Son always existed.  There always was a Father, a Son, and their Holy Spirit.

Kathi! You have a Son, did He existed the same time then you and your Husband did? I don't think so. Neither did Jesus. Otherwise He would not be Gods Son…. He had a beginning. Scripture in
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

If Jesus always existed, He would not have a beginning. Your understanding is wrong according to Scriptures….

Peace and Love Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,17:24)

So Pierre, you said on this page in your above two posts: Quote just remember we are all gods Quote to be honest I have always believed that Christ is a god but just as Moses was to his brother and to pharaoh Christ will be forever the intermediary between all of creation and his father Can you answer these questions: Let me ask you…did you and Moses pre-exist too, Pierre?  And then did you and Moses take on flesh? Was the woman who bore you  and Moses a virgin?  Have you and Moses always had the nature of God? Were you and Moses also an only begotten Son of God?  When was the last time you and Moses walked on water, or rebuked the wind and the wind stopped, or healed a blind man or raised the dead by your own power?  Are you planning on dying to take away the sins of the world, yes, the whole world Pierre, did Moses eternally redeem anyone's sins against God with his death?  How about having all authority in heaven and on earth, will you have that in your future, does Moses have that now? Seriously, Pierre, I think your doctrine has you serving the wrong person and I pray that you will ask God to open your eyes and heart.  I think you are in danger. Praying for you, Kathi

Kathi

you may twist my words but you never will be able to present Christ in scriptures any other way, than the mediator for men
between men and God his father ,Moses was the mediator but as a shadow before the real mediator comes what is Christ .

so if you can see differently ;please show your scriptures.

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
I quoted your words exactly as you wrote them. Are you now saying that you believe that Moses was just a shadow of the 'theos' that Jesus was?

[Lightenup]

Irene,
How do you know that the Son wasn't eternally within the Father and when the Father wanted to bring Him forth, He then beget Him?
Don't you think that the Father always was all sufficient for every good work?

Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,19:24)

Irene, How do you know that the Son wasn't eternally within the Father and when the Father wanted to bring Him forth, He then beget Him?

A better question is, “How do YOU know he was, Kathi?”

YOU are the one who made an excellent point about the “default” understandings holding true UNLESS there was evidence to the contrary.

The DEFAULT understanding of a son being begotten by his father is:

The father was alive FIRST.
The father gave life to the son.
The son began to exist AFTER the father.
The son did not exist until he was begotten by the father.
The son is never the same being as the father.
Etc, etc, etc.

So, where is YOUR evidence that CLEARLY shows each of us from the words of the scriptures themselves that the Son of God was an exception to the rules of begetting?

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 19 2011,23:12)

Pierre, Congratulations, you understanding is ahead of Mike on this one: Quote the fact that God the father has a son that is the supremacy over all of creation I do not see what is wrong with the title of god for Christ he is after all the son of God Raise the flag!!     Good job on that conclusion! Kathi

Before I show you the truth about Romans 9:5, could you tell me what you mean by this post, Kathi?

Have I not argued that Jesus is the god who was with THE God in the beginning – and was called by the title “god” other times in scripture as well?

Have I not agreed that Jesus now rules the creation OF HIS GOD?

Do you not know that I believe Jesus is the Son of God?

So, I guess I don't get the “understanding is ahead of Mike” part of your post. Please explain.

mike

[Lightenup]

Mike I wrote that to Pierre because he didn't attempt to change the verse…comma or word order like you have in mind doing.

Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,19:22)

Pierre, I quoted your words exactly as you wrote them.  Are you now saying that you believe that Moses was just a shadow of the 'theos' that Jesus was?

Kathi

is that not what i said ?

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Mike,

you said:

Quote

So, where is YOUR evidence that CLEARLY shows each of us from the words of the scriptures themselves that the Son of God was an exception to the rules of begetting?

The Son has the exact representation of the Father's nature and the Father is eternal. Human understanding does not offer a default model for one with the nature of an eternal God who begets a Son with the same nature and then creates the world through Him. Human understanding is limited to a father who didn't always exist.

I have already discussed why I think the Son was eternal. The Father has always been Almighty.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Did you not say that we are all gods?
Is Jesus and you equal as god?
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,20:30)

Mike, you said: Quote So, where is YOUR evidence that CLEARLY shows each of us from the words of the scriptures themselves that the Son of God was an exception to the rules of begetting? The Son has the exact representation of the Father's nature and the Father is eternal.  Human understanding does not offer a default model for one with the nature of an eternal God who begets a Son with the same nature and then creates the world through Him.  Human understanding is limited to a father who didn't always exist. I have already discussed why I think the Son was eternal.  The Father has always been Almighty. Kathi

And I've told you that you know nothing about the Father's nature. You don't know that the legions of angels don't also have the Father's nature. You don't know that “nature” would include “from eternity”. But if you did, then it would be fair and scriptural to say that Jesus didn't ALWAYS have his Father's nature. Because Jesus died, remember? Death at one time DID have power over him. Did death EVER have power over the Father?

I am glad that you realize GOD created THROUGH Jesus now. Now if you'd only realize that the Father was ALWAYS Almighty, even BEFORE his Son existed.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,20:23)

Mike I wrote that to Pierre because he didn't attempt to change the verse…comma or word order like you have in mind doing. Kathi

Well, let's take a look at the facts:

Greek from Biblos.com
………..who over all God blessed forever…………..

NIV:  Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

NAS:  whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

KJV:  Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

GWT:  The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.

ASV:  whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

BBE:  Whose are the fathers, and of whom came Christ in the flesh, who is over all, God, to whom be blessing for ever. So be it.

DBY:  whose are the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, is the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

DRB:  Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.

WBS:  Whose are the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

WEB:  of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.

YLT:  whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.

Look at how ALL of the “older” translations render that verse Kathi.  It seems it is a fairly new twist that the Trinitarians have come up with by rendering it “God, who is blessed forever”.

And speaking of commas, look at the WEB.  They had it right because they know that's the layout of the Greek words.  But they felt the need to add a “comma of bias” into their translation, because they know that scriptures don't actually teach their “truth” – so they have to MAKE THEM teach it.  

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2011,20:35)

Pierre, Did you not say that we are all gods? Is Jesus and you equal as god? Kathi

kathi

of cause not

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Quote (terraricca @ July 20 2011,16:55)

Kathi just remember we are all gods Pierre

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
  you are all sons of the Most High.’

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