Ancient Syriac Documents

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 11 2011,21:40)

Pierre,
Our discussion was about calling Jesus our Father as the one in the Syriac document. I told you that we can call Jesus our Father because He is the one who gives us eternal life. Then I showed you a plain scripture that said that Jesus gives us eternal life. You are right in that it is conditional but that was not what the discussion was about. Do you see that it is Jesus that gives us eternal life?

28and I give eternal life to them

Who does the 'I' refer to Pierre? Answer…Jesus. Jesus gives eternal life to His sheep that the Father has given Him. The Father of Jesus doesn't give the sheep eternal life, it is the Son who gives His sheep eternal life and therefore the Son is the sheep's Father, the one that gave them life eternal.

Kathi

Jn 6:57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

Jn 5:25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Jn 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
Jn 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jn 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep

so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

so you see Christ received his power to give live from his father

Pierre

July 12, 2011 at 2:56 am#252055

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ July 10 2011,22:00)

Jn 6:57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

Hmmm………….

Jesus lives BECAUSE OF the Father. I wonder if the Father also lives BECAUSE OF Jesus? What do you say, Kathi?

July 12, 2011 at 3:48 pm#252126

thehappyman

Participant

Hmmm and the family tree goes on , Our Father, then His Son, then everyone thereafter. Thanks , I knew that, lol…………….

July 17, 2011 at 6:31 pm#252744

Blocked

Bump for Kathi

July 17, 2011 at 8:36 pm#252752

Participant

Mike and Pierre,
Of course the flesh body of Christ was given life, the flesh body didn't always exist. There would be no life given to men from Christ had He not taken on the flesh body in order to sacrifice the flesh body and cover our transgressions with His blood from that flesh body.

Kathi

July 17, 2011 at 9:39 pm#252756

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 18 2011,14:36)

Kathi

I am sorry i forgot to show you this word in that scripture;

Jn 6:57 Just as the living Father SENT ME and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me

DO YOU SEE THIS ? SEND ME ?

Pierre

July 18, 2011 at 1:58 am#252797

Participant

Pierre,

Read this to help you:

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
As the living Father hath sent me,…. Into the world, to be the Saviour of it; not by local motion, but by assumption of human nature; and not against his will, or as having superiority over him; but by joint consent and agreement: the first person in the Godhead is here styled, “the living Father”; not because he is the Father of spirits, of angels, and the souls of men; and the Father of all men by creation, and of saints by adoption; and the Father, or author of all mercies, spiritual and temporal; but because he is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; and this character is peculiar to him: he is indeed the living God, and has life in himself, and is the fountain of life to others; but not in distinction from, and to the exclusion of the Son, or Spirit; but then none but he is the living Father, who ever did, and ever will, live as the Father of Christ:

and I live by the Father; which is to be understood of Christ, not as God, but as Mediator, and as man. As Mediator he was set up by his Father, as the head of life to the elect; and was intrusted by him with a fulness of life for them; and was sent to open the way of life unto them, and bestow it on them. As man, he had his human life from God, and was preserved and upheld in it by him; and he laid it down at his command, and at his death committed his soul or spirit to him; and which was restored unto him, and is continued with him. The Vulgate Latin, and all the Oriental versions, read, “for the Father”, or “because of him”; and may design either that near union and conjunction of Christ with him, by virtue of which they live the same life; or else his living to the glory and honour of his Father, as he did, and does:

so he that eateth me; in a spiritual sense, by faith. The phrase of eating the Messiah was a familiar one, and well known to the Jews; though these Capernaites cavilled at it, and called it an hard saying.

“Says Rab, the Israelites shall “eat” the years of the Messiah: (the gloss on it is, the fulness which the Israelites shall have in those days:) says R. Joseph, it is certainly so; but who shall “eat him?” shall Chellek and Billek (two judges in Sodom) , “eat him?” contrary to the words of R. Hillell, who says, Israel shall have no Messiah, for “they ate him” in the days of Hezekiah (y);''

that is, they enjoyed him then; for he thought that Hezekiah was the Messiah; but that was the doctor's mistake. The Messiah now was, and to be enjoyed and eaten by faith in a spiritual sense, and everyone that does so,

even he shall live by me: such have their life from Christ; he is their food, on which they lived; and by him they are continued, upheld, and preserved in their spiritual life, and are by him brought to the life of glory: or they live “for”, or “because of” him, as the above versions render it; they derive their life from him, and because he lives, they live also; and they live to his glory, and will do so to all eternity.

from: http://bible.cc/john/6-57.htm

Kathi

July 18, 2011 at 3:30 am#252807

Participant

Kathi

Quote

this is his opinion not scriptural,many try to change the word of God into their word ,so that you have to go to them to know the word ,this is deceitful,

Pierre

July 18, 2011 at 3:37 am#252808

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 18 2011,14:36)

Kathi

Jn 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
Jn 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

when did Christ received that authority ?
after all his father is God .

Pierre

July 18, 2011 at 3:57 am#252813

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ July 17 2011,21:37)

when did Christ received that authority ?

Good point, Pierre.

Exactly when did one of our two EQUAL mighty Gods start COMMANDING the other one, ordering him around, and sending him places so he could DIE?

July 18, 2011 at 4:04 am#252815

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 17 2011,14:36)

Kathi

So how do you know this was only the “flesh Jesus” talking here and not the “100% God – 100% Man Jesus” talking?

Question: Was the Jesus who was on earth 100% of the entire being of Jesus? Or was there still the “God part” of Jesus who continued existing in heaven while the “human part” of Jesus dwelled on the earth?

Because if the Jesus who BECAME flesh consisted of 100% of the entire being of Jesus, then it was that 100% entire being of Jesus who said, “I live because of the Father”, right?

I see no footnote or reference by Jesus to imply that “only the flesh part of me lives because of the Father”………….do you Kathi?

mike

July 18, 2011 at 4:14 am#252817

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 18 2011,22:04)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 17 2011,14:36)

Kathi

So how do you know this was only the “flesh Jesus” talking here and not the “100% God – 100% Man Jesus” talking?

Because if the Jesus who BECAME flesh consisted of 100% of the entire being of Jesus, then it was that 100% entire being of Jesus who said, “I live because of the Father”, right?

I see no footnote or reference by Jesus to imply that “only the flesh part of me lives because of the Father”………….do you Kathi?

mike

Mike

the fact that Christ was himself all the way,Paul explain that Christ was humble down to believing and trusting God his father even to die knowing that God will keep his promise,to him

this is a example for us to trust in the word of God and believing that it is true ,truth and from God,and obey it for those reasons

Pierre

July 18, 2011 at 2:15 pm#252845

Participant

Mike and Pierre,
This can help you see the divine nature and human nature, each are always present in the Son since He took on the flesh.

An Exposition of The Mysteries

He was laid in a manger and wrapped in swaddling clothes, as Man;
and the watchers extolled Him with their praises, as God.
He offered sacrifices according to the Law, as Man;
and He received worship from the Persians, as God.
Simeon bore Him upon his arms, as Man;
and he named Him 'the Mercy' who showth mercy to all, as God.
He kept the Law completely, as Man;
and He gave His own new Law, as God.

He was baptized in Jordan by John, as Man;
and the heaven was opened in honour of His baptism, as God.
He went in to the marriage-feast of the city of Canna, as Man;
and He changed the water that it became wine, as God.
He fasted in the wilderness forty days, as Man;
and watchers descended to minister unto Him, as God.
He slept in the boat with His disciples, as Man;
and He rebuked the wind and calmed the sea, as God.

He set out and departed to a desert place, as Man;
and He multiplied the bread and satisfied thousands, as God.
He ate and drank and walked and was weary, as Man;
and He put devils to flight by the word of His mouth, as God.
He prayed and watched and gave thanks and worshipped, as Man;
and He forgave debts and pardoned sins, as God.
He asked water of the Samaritan woman, as Man;
and He revealed and declared her secrets, as God.

He sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, as Man;
and He forgave the sinful woman her sins, as God.
He went up into the mountain of Tabor with His disciples, as Man;
and He revealed His glory in their sight, as God.
He shed tears and wept over Lazarus, as Man;
and He called him that he came forth by His mighty power, as God.
He rode upon a colt and entered Jerusalem, as Man;
and the boys applauded Him with their Hosannas, as God.

He drew nigh to the fig-tree and shewed that He was hungered, as Man;
and His mighty power caused it to wither on a sudden, as God.
He washed the feet of His twelve, as Man;
and He called Himself Lord and Master, as God.
He ate the legal passover, as Man;
and He exposed the treachery of Iscariot, as God.
He prayed and sweated at the time of His passion, as Man;
and He scared and terrified them that took Him, as God.

the attendants seized Him and bound His hands, as Man;
and He healed the ear that Simon cut off, as God.
He stood in the place of judgement and bore insult, as Man;
and He declared that He is about to come in glory, as God.
He bore His Cross upon His shoulder, as Man;
and He revealed and announced the destruction of Zion, as God.
He was hanged upon the wood and endured the passion, as Man;
and He shook the earth and darkened the sun, as God.

Nails were driven into His body, as Man;
and He opened the graves and quickened the dead, as God.
He cried out upon the Cross 'My God, My God,' as Man;
and promised Paradise to the thief, as God.
His side was pierced with a spear, as Man;
and His nod rent the temple veil, as God.
They embalmed His body and He was buried in the earth, as Man;
and He raised up His temple by His mighty power, as God.

He remained in the tomb three days, as Man;
and the watchers glorified Him with their praises, as God.
He said that He had received all authority, as Man;
and He promised to be with us for ever, as God.
He commanded Thomas to feel His side, as Man;
and He gave them the Spirit for an earnest, as God.
He ate and drank after His resurrection, as Man;
and He ascended to the height and sent the Spirit, as God.

found here: http://www.peshitta.org/

July 18, 2011 at 8:49 pm#252852

Participant

Kathi

Ps 130:2 O Lord, hear my voice.
Let your ears be attentive
to my cry for mercy.

Pr 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge;
the ears of the wise seek it out.

are you part of the above group ?

or are you part of the following group ?

Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”

Isa 42:20 You have seen many things, but have paid no attention;
your ears are open, but you hear nothing.”
Isa 43:8 Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,
who have ears but are deaf.

I am part of this one ;Isa 30:21 Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”
Isa 32:3 Then the eyes of those who see will no longer be closed,
and the ears of those who hear will listen.

Pierre

July 19, 2011 at 1:11 am#252893

Blocked

Hi Kathi,

I'm not interested in poems about the deity of Jesus. I'm interested in your SCRIPTURAL answer to my post at the top of this page.

Btw, I could go through that poem line by line and scripturally tear it apart. But try reading it yourself scripturally, by adding 's Son after every “as God”.

July 19, 2011 at 1:14 am#252894

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ July 17 2011,22:14)

Mike

the fact that Christ was himself all the way,Paul explain that Christ was humble down to believing and trusting God his father even to die knowing that God will keep his promise,to him

Of course Jesus was himself the whole time, Pierre! But let's wait and see in what way Kathi tries to separate his “deity” from his “humanity”, in an attempt to make a claim that only the “human” part of Jesus said he lives because of God.

July 19, 2011 at 4:14 am#252916

Participant

Mike (Pierre this might help you too),
Let's use you as an example here, Mike. You have been a member of HN since Feb. 2010. You became a moderator last summer if I remember correctly. So, you might say that when you began your life as a moderator last summer on HN, you still were 100% a member of HN. Your membership on HN pre-existed your moderator role. When you do your moderator thing and give a warning or a tile, then sign your name as 'Moderator' you still are a member but you are posting as the moderator.

When Jesus does things and says things, sometimes it is as the 'man' and sometimes it is as the pre-existent supernatural Son. You have to learn to tell the difference by knowing the purpose of the different roles. When Jesus is talking as the 'man' he hasn't stopped being the person that pre-existed. He is both…100% the Son of God who pre-existed and 100% the man that was given life in Mary. Sometimes He is doing what He needs to do as the man and sometimes He is doing what He needs to do as the supernatural pre-existent Son of God. When He talks about the life which God had given Him He is referring to the life as the man. We know that He wasn't always a man and that to be a man, His flesh had to be given life.

Like you, you are 100% a member here and also 100% a moderator here. Sometimes you speak as the member and sometimes you speak as the moderator. I think that most of us can tell the difference especially when you say things like “I'll take it under advisement” or sign your name as 'Moderator.' You separate your moderator role from your member role and your member role from your moderator role yet you are not divided in two but remain one person while you take on each personna and act accordingly.

So look at what you are wanting to know from me:

Quote

But let's wait and see in what way Kathi tries to separate his “deity” from his “humanity”, in an attempt to make a claim that only the “human” part of Jesus said he lives because of God.

Only the moderator part of you gives tiles, right? Well only the human part of Jesus needed to be given life. Just like you can talk as the moderator while still being a member, Jesus can talk as the man while still being the pre-existent supernatural Son.

Get it now?

Kathi

July 19, 2011 at 5:30 am#252924

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 19 2011,22:14)

So look at what you are wanting to know from me:

Quote

But let's wait and see in what way Kathi tries to separate his “deity” from his “humanity”, in an attempt to make a claim that only the “human” part of Jesus said he lives because of God.

Get it now?

Kathi

God did not send half a son but his total son

you can see in your comment you have not produce one single scripture .

2Pe 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus
They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them

2Pe 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up

2Pe 2:17 These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.
2Pe 2:18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error.

2Pe 2:21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Kathi your view is not scriptural and so not true

Pierre

July 19, 2011 at 5:39 pm#252963

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….90;st=0

Participant

Pierre,

Quote

God did not send half a son but his total son

I agree. I have never said otherwise.

Quote

Kathi your view is not scriptural and so not true

My view has been backed with scripture. You don't seem to like all the scriptures.
For instance, look at this thread full of scripture. You won't like the scriptures, I can almost guarantee it but never the less, they are found in the Bible.

July 19, 2011 at 5:56 pm#252967