Ancient Syriac Documents

[Lightenup]

Here is a website with very interesting ancient Syriac historical documents that would put many questions on HN to rest, like:
Was Jesus known to be God as the Son to the early church and pre-existent, from everlasting?

Was He worshipped along with the Father?

Did they consider the Son as the creator?

These documents were originally written in the Aramaic language, the same language that was commonly spoken by Jesus and His followers.

Check it out:
http://www.studylight.org/his/ad/ecf/ant/ancientsyriacdocuments/

Kathi

[Lightenup]

From the ancient Syriac documents:
The Teaching of Simon Cephas in the City of Rome (who we know as 'Peter' the disciple):

In the third(4) year of Claudius Caesar, Simon Cephas departed from Antioch to go to Rome. And as he passed on he preached in the divers countries the word of our Lord. And, when he had nearly arrived there,(5) many had heard of it and went out to meet him, and the whole church received him with great joy. And some of the princes of the city, wearers of the imperial headbands,(6) came to him, that they might see him and hear his word. And, when the whole city was gathered together about him, he stood up to speak to them, and to show them the preaching of his doctrine, of what sort it was. And he began to speak to them thus:-

Men, people of Rome, saints of all Italy, hear ye that which I say to you. This day I preach and proclaim Jesus the Son of God, who came down from heaven, and became man, and was with us as one of ourselves, and wrought marvellous mighty-works and signs and wonders before us, and before all the Jews that are in the land of Palestine. And you yourselves also heard of those things which He did: because they came to Him from other countries also, on account of the fame of His healing and the report of the marvellous help He gave;(7) and whosoever drew near to Him was healed by His word. And, inasmuch as He was God, at the same time that He healed He also forgave sins: for His healing, which was open to view, bore witness of His hidden forgiveness, that it was real and trustworthy. For this Jesus did the prophets announce in their mysterious sayings, as they were looking forward to see Him and to hear His word: Him who was with His Father from eternity and from everlasting; God, who was hidden in the height, and appeared in the depth; the glorious Son, who was from His Progenitor, and is to be glorified, together with His Father, and His divine Spirit, and the terrible power of His dominion. And He was crucified of His own will by the hands of sinners, and was taken up to His Father, even as I and my companions saw. And He is about to come again, in His own glory and that of His holy angels, even as we heard Him say to us. For we cannot say anything which was not heard by us from Him, neither do we write in the book of His Gospel anything which He Himself did not say to us: because this word is spoken in order that the mouth of liars may be shut, in the day when men shall give an account of idle words at the place of judgment.

Moreover, because we were catchers of fish,(8) and not skilled in books, therefore did He also say to us: “I will send you the Spirit, the Paraclete, that He may teach you that which ye know not; “for it is by His gift that we speak those things which ye hear. And, further, by it we bring aid to the sick, and healing to the diseased: that by the hearing of His word and by the aid of His power ye may believe in Christ, that He is God, the Son of God; and may be delivered from the service of bondage, and may worship Him and His Father, and glorify His divine Spirit. For when we glorify the Father, we glorify the Son also with Him; and when we worship the Son, we worship the Father also with Him; and when we confess the Spirit, we confess the Father also and the Son: because in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Spirit, were we commanded to baptize those who believe, that they may live for ever.

Flee therefore from the words of the wisdom of this world, in which there is no profit, and draw near to those which are true and faithful, and acceptable before God; whose reward also is laid up in store, and whose recompense standeth sure. Now, too,(9) the light has arisen on the creation, and the world has obtained the eyes, of the mind, that every man may see and understand that it is not fit that creatures should be worshipped instead of the Creator, nor together with the Creator: because everything which is a creature is made to be a worshipper of its Maker, and is not to be worshipped like its Creator. But this One who came to us is God, the Son of God, in His own nature, notwithstanding that He mingled(10) His Godhead with our manhood, in order that He might renew our manhood by the aid of His Godhead. And on this account it is right that we should worship Him, because He is to be worshipped together with His Father, and that we should not worship creatures, who were created for the worship of the Creator. For He is Himself the God of truth and verity; He is Himself from before all worlds and creatures; He is Himself the veritable Son, and the glorious fruit(11) which is from the exalted Father.

But ye see the wonderful works which accompany and follow these words. One would not credit it: the time lo! is short since He ascended to His Father, and see how His Gospel has winged its flight through the whole creation-that thereby it may be known and believed that He Himself is the Creator of creatures, and that by His bidding creatures subsist. And, whereas ye saw the sun become darkened at His death, ye yourselves also are witnesses. The earth, moreover, quaked when He was slain, and the veil was rent at His death. And concerning these things the governor Pilate also was witness: for he himself sent and made them known to Caesar,(12) and these things, and more than these, were read before him, and before the princes of your city. And on this account Caesar was angry against Pilate because he had unjustly listened to the persuasion of the Jews; and for this reason he sent and took away from him the authority which he had given to him. And this same thing was published and known in all the dominion of the Romans. That, therefore, which Pilate saw and made known to Caesar and to your honourable senate, the same do I preach and declare, as do also my fellow-apostles. And ye know that Pilate could not have written to the imperial government of that which did not take place and which he had not seen with his own eyes; but that which did take place and was actually done-this it was that he wrote and made known. Moreover, the watchers of the sepulchre also were witnesses of those things which took place there: they became as dead men; and, when those watchers were questioned before Pilate, they confessed before him how large a bribe the chief-priests of the Jews had given them, so that they might say that we His disciples had stolen the corpse of Christ. Lo! then, ye have heard many things; and moreover, if ye be not willing to be persuaded by those things which ye have heard, be at least persuaded by the mighty-works which ye see, which are done by His name.

Let not Simon the sorcerer delude you by semblances which are not realities, which he exhibits to you, as to men who have no understanding, who know not how to discern that which they see and hear. Send, therefore, and fetch him to where all your city is assembled together, and choose you some sign for us to do before you; and, whichever ye see do that same sign, it will be your part to believe in it.

And immediately they sent and fetched Simon the sorcerer;(13) and the men who were adherents of his opinion said to him: As a man concerning whom we have confidence that there is power in thee to do anything whatsoever,(14) do thou some sign before us all, and let this Simon the Galilaean, who preaches Christ, see it. And, whilst they were thus speaking to him, there happened to be passing along a dead person, a son of one of those who were chiefs and men of note and renown among them. And all of them, as they were assembled together, said to him: Whichever of you shall restore to life this dead person, he is true, and to be believed in and received, and we will all follow him in whatsoever he saith to us. And they said to Simon the sorcerer: Because thou wast here before Simon the Galilaean, and we knew thee before him, exhibit thou first the power which accompanieth thee.(15)

Then Simon reluctantly drew near to the dead person; and they set down the bier befo
re him; and he looked to the fight hand and to the left, and gazed up into heaven, saying many words: some of them he uttered aloud, and some of them secretly and not aloud. And he delayed a long while, and nothing took place, and nothing was done, and the dead person was lying upon his bier.

And forthwith Simon Cephas drew near boldly towards the dead man, and cried aloud before all the assembly which was standing there: In the name of Jesus Christ, whom the Jews crucified at Jerusalem, and whom we preach, rise up thence. And as soon as the word of Simon was spoken the dead man came to life and rose up from the bier.

And all the people saw and marvelled; and they said to Simon: Christ, whom thou preachest, is true. And many cried out, and said: Let Simon the sorcerer and the deceiver of us all be stoned. But Simon, by reason that every one was running to see the dead man that was come to life, escaped from them from one street to another and from house to house, and fell not into their hands on that day.

But the whole city took hold of Simon Cephas, and they received him gladly and affectionately; and he ceased not from doing signs and wonders in the name of Christ; and many believed in him. Cuprinus,(16) moreover, the father of him that was restored to life, took Simon with him to his house, and entertained him in a suitable manner, while he and all his household believed in Christ, that He is the Son of the living God. And many of the Jews and of the pagans became disciples there. And, when there was great rejoicing at his teaching, he built churches there, in Rome and in the cities round about, and in all the villages of the people of Italy; and he served there in the rank of the Superintendence of Rulers twenty-five years.(17)

And after these years Nero Caesar seized him and shut him up in prison. And he knew that he would crucify him; so he called Ansus,(18) the deacon, and made him bishop in his stead in Rome. And these things did Simon himself speak; and moreover also the rest, the other things which he had in charge, he commanded Ansus to teach before the people, saying to him: Beside the New Testament and the Old let there not be read before the people(19) anything else:(20) which is not right.

And, when Caesar had commanded that Simon should be crucified with his head downwards, as he himself had requested of Caesar, and that Paul's head should be taken off, there was great commotion among the people, and bitter distress in all the church, seeing that they were deprived of the sight of the apostles. And Isus the guide arose and took up their bodies by night, and buried them with great honour, and there came to be a gathering-place there for many.

And at that very time, as if by a righteous judgment, Nero abandoned his empire and fled, and there was a cessation for a little while from the persecution which Nero Caesar had raised against them. And many years after the great coronation(21) of the apostles, who had departed out of the world, while ordination to the priesthood was proceeding both in all Rome and in all Italy, it happened then that there was a great famine in the city of Rome.(22)

Here endeth the teaching of Simon Cephas.

Found here: http://www.studylight.org/his….146.htm

[mikeboll64]

Hi Kathi,

As far as your supposed writings of Peter, I have my doubts about them, for I don't remember any Apostle speaking of a “book of the Gospel of Jesus”. There was no “book” at that time. They were each just writing letters to congregations.

Also, the word “God” could just as easily be “a god”, like in John 1:1. The word “worship”, could just as easily be “do obeisance to”. The words “eternity” and “everlasting” could just as easily be “from ancient times, days of old” like they are in Micah 5. Nor was Peter or any Apostle ever recorded as baptizing in the name of “the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. In fact, why did Peter baptize in the name of Jesus Christ ONLY in Acts 2 if he had this other formula? Was he breaking the “commandment” he spoke about in your quote?

Many things about this letter are “up for grabs” without the actual Syrian words. And many other things don't align with scripture. I think that it is most likely a fake, or it would be in our canon – especially with the trinity undertones that your English translation presents. I believe the Trinitarian scholars would have jumped on this in a heartbeat if it had a chance of being legit.

mike

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,
I think the context makes it clear that the words are accurately translated in the document and shouldn't be how you suggest. I tend to think that they did baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. They simply mentioned baptizing in the name of Jesus because of emphasis. The Jews already believed in the Father and the Spirit…the Son was new to them.

Peter would have been an old man when he went to Rome and so it isn't unreasonable to think that there were books about Jesus already written. The canon doesn't contain all the books written about Jesus because it would be too big as implied by this passage:

20Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” 23Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”

24This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.

Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Hi Kathi,

What I'm saying is that your source has Peter saying Jesus COMMANDED them to baptize in the triune formula.  Yet Acts has Peter baptizing in the name of Jesus only.  

You can rationalize that this was for emphasis, like you rationalize that God will be okay with you worshipping someone other than Him just because that someone other is His Son.  I'm not here to judge you, for it is not my place to judge another servant of my master.

I'm only here to tell you that I feel safer following the commands of God and Jesus EXACTLY, (to the best of my ability, of course), and not rationalizing with my own flawed human brain that God probably will be okay with me doing it this way instead of the way he explicitely told me to.  

You are apparently more “risky” than I am in that department, and I hope God does see it your way for your sake.  

So about Peter, we would have to decide if we think Peter is more like you, or more like me.  I personally think that if Jesus COMMANDED Peter to baptize in the triune formula, then that is what he would have done.  But who knows?  Maybe Peter was thinking like you that it's okay to break the Lord's commandments as long as we have good intentions.

mike

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Read what I wrote:

Quote

I tend to think that they did baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I think that Acts has it written that they baptized in Jesus' name, but I tend to think that they baptized in all three, and when Acts was written, it just emphasizes Jesus' name but doesn't mean that the other two names weren't part of it. I think that you read my words wrong. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Also, you need to know that if the Son is 'God' as the Son, as we see in this article, then when we worship the Son, we worship 'God' as the Son our creator. We aren't worshiping a cow, a Power Ranger, a movie star, a nicely carved chunk of marble, we are worshiping God, as the Son along with the Father. We aren't worshiping Jesus as God the Father but as God the Son, like Peter says here. The Bible says to worship God which includes worship to the Father since He is God and worship to the Son, since He is God too but as the Son.

What you call 'risky' I call 'faith.'

Take care,
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,19:13)

I think that Acts has it written that they baptized in Jesus' name, but I tend to think that they baptized in all three, and when Acts was written, it just emphasizes Jesus' name but doesn't mean that the other two names weren't part of it.

Well isn't that convenient for you?    “Hey guys, if I don't like the ACTUAL words of the scriptures, I'll just imagine my own understanding of what really happened right into them.”  

Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,19:13)

What you call 'risky' I call 'faith.'

And what YOU call “faith”, I call ignoring the very clear and plain words of Jehovah and His Son.  But hey, it's your funeral – so to speak. As for me, I'll remain timid like a little church mouse and shake and tremble before my God and my Lord and do EXACTLY as they tell me.

peace and love to you my friend,
mike

[Lightenup]

Well,
Mike, it is clear that scripture says to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and so therefore I assume they did that because they would have followed the Lord's command. If it is written as baptizing in the name of Jesus then it was more likely because the writer was emphasizing the name that was new to them, like the church does today, an emphasis is on Jesus but the Father and the Holy Spirit are certainly included. The emphasis is on Jesus because without Him, church would be a synagogue. Believers are called 'Christ'ians and it is no wonder that the name 'Christ' and person of Christ is made known loud and clear.

The son is Jehovah also, btw. I think the little, timid church mouse needs to actually go to church and learn better who the head of the church is and find his strength and courage.

“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Jesus attended the synagogue which obviously was not without flaws…they were throwing out members who became disciples of Christ…I called that flawed, but Jesus attended the synagogue and taught in it. I think you can go to church even though it is flawed if Jesus could go to the flawed synagogue.

Just sayin,'
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,20:06)

I think you can go to church even though it is flawed if Jesus could go to the flawed synagogue.

If churches today were run the way the old synagogues were, I'd be the first in line.  In the synagogues, members were allowed to read from the Law and speak their minds.  

Jesus did not go to church to listen to a pastor preaching to him……………he went to teach the truth.

Find me a church where I can stand up there and read 1 Cor 8:6 and ask the people exactly who our ONE God is, and I'll be all over it.  

Yep, if churches today were like the synagogues of old, there would be a lot less trinitarians and binarians.  But as it is, the “Jesus is God” people hold all the cards, and they're not willing to let the people in the pews even know the rules of the game, or let people like me play.  

mike

[Pastry]

Kathi!  From the time of Jesus walking on Earth, to the 1800 year, most Christians wee persecuted and died a bloody and cruel death.  First by the Romans and then by the Catholic church.  So when you quote the Forefathers, they are not really true Christians.  They all went along with the trinity doctrine…..Peter I doubt wrote that article.  He too died a cruel death.  
Peace Irene

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Find yourself a good teaching church and get in a small group. There you can discuss and learn. Keep trying till you find one that teaches from the Bible and where the members also bring their Bibles and follow along…that is a good sign Check out their class for potential new members, you should be able to discuss your opinions there. I know some churches aren't so good but then again, some are awesome. What part of AZ are you in?

Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Tempe, Az.

[Lightenup]

Irene,
Those people died because they would not worship the government's gods but were followers of Christ. You ought to read more about the martyrs. The Jews were the first persecutors…think Paul of Tarsus. Find out why Stephen was persecuted. Learn more about this. I will be putting another historical Syriac document that was officially written by a scribe in the king's court. They wrote down everything that happened and kept good records. It is interesting. I'll go find it for you and everyone.

Blessings,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

This is another ancient Syriac document entitled, “The Teaching of Addaeus, the Apostle.” Addaeus followed Jesus while He was alive and died a martyr's death, Abgar was a king who had written to Jesus asking for Him to come and heal him…Jesus wrote back and said that He would send one of His followers that could help him and the one sent was who this document speaks about…Addaeus, the Apostle:

Addaeus(2) said to him: Because thou hast thus believed, I lay my hand upon thee in the name of Him in whom thou hast thus believed. And at the very moment that he laid his hand upon him he was healed of the plague of the disease which he had for a long time.(3) And Abgar was astonished and marvelled, because, like as he had heard about Jesus, how He wrought and healed, so Addaeus also, without any medicine whatever, was healing in the name of Jesus. And Abdu also, son of Abdu, had the gout in his feet; and he also presented his feet to him, and he laid his hand upon them, and healed him, and he had the gout no more. And in all the city also he wrought great cures, and showed forth wonderful mighty-works in it.

Abgar said to him: Now that every man knoweth that by the power of Jesus Christ thou doest these miracles, and lo! we are astonished at thy deeds, I therefore entreat of thee to relate to us the story about the coming of Christ, in what manner it was, and about His glorious power, and about the miracles which we have heard that He did, which thou hast thyself seen, together with thy fellow-disciples.

Addaeus said: I will not hold my peace from declaring this; since for this very purpose was I sent hither, that I might speak to and teach every one who is willing to believe, even as thou. Assemble me tomorrow all the city, and I will sow in it the word of life by the preaching which I will address to you-about the coming of Christ, in what manner it was; and about Him that sent Him, why and how He sent Him; and about His power and His wonderful works; and about the glorious mysteries of His coming, which He spake of in the world; and about the unerring truth(4) of His preaching; and how and for what cause He abused Himself, and humbled. His exalted Godhead by the manhood which He took, and was crucified, and descended to the place of the dead, and broke through the enclosure(5) which had never been broken through before, and gave life to the dead by being slain Himself, and descended alone, and ascended with many to His glorious Father, with whom He had been from eternity in one exalted Godhead.

And Abgar commanded them to give to Addaeus silver and gold. Addaeus said to him: How can we receive that which is not ours. For, lo! that which was ours have we forsaken, as we were commanded by our Lord; because without purses and without scrips, bearing the cross upon our shoulders, were we commanded to preach His Gospel in the whole creation, of whose crucifixion, which was for our sakes, for the redemption of all men, the whole creation was sensible and suffered pain.

And he related before Abgar the king, and before his princes and his nobles, and before Augustin, Abgar's mother, and before Shalmath,(6) the daughter of Meherdath,(7) Abgar's wife,(8) the signs of our Lord, and His wonders, and the glorious mighty-works which He did, and His divine exploits, and His ascension to His Father; and how they had received power and authority at the same time that He was received up-by which same power it was that he had healed Abgar, and Abdu son of Abdu, the second person(9) of his kingdom; and how He informed them that He would reveal Himself at the end of the ages(10) and at the consummation of all created things; also of the resuscitation and resurrection which is to come for all men, and the separation which will be made between the sheep and the goats, and between the faithful and those who believe not.

And he said to them: Because the gate of life is strait and the way of truth narrow, therefore are the believers of the truth few, and through unbelief is Satan's gratification. Therefore are the liars many who lead astray those that see. For, were it not that there is a good end awaiting believing men, our Lord would not have descended from heaven, and come to be born, and to endure the suffering of death. Yet He did come, and us did He send(11) …of the faith which we preach, that God was crucified for(12) all men.

And, if there be those who are not willing(13) to agree with these our words, let them draw near to us and disclose to us what is in their mind, that, like as in the case of a disease, we may apply to their thoughts healing medicine for the cure of their ailments. For, though ye were not present at the time of Christ's suffering, yet from the sun which was darkened, and which ye saw, learn ye and understand concerning the great convulsion(14) which took place at that time, when He was crucified whose Gospel has winged its way through all the earth by the signs which His disciples my fellows do in all the earth: yea, those who were Hebrews, and knew only the language of the Hebrews, in which they were born, lo! at this day are speaking in all languages, in order that those who are afar off may hear and believe, even as those who are near. For He it is that confounded the tongues of the presumptuous in this region who were before us; and He it is that teaches at this day the faith of truth and verity by us, humble and despicable(15) men from Galilee of Palestine. For I also whom ye see am from Paneas,(16) from the place where the river Jordan issues forth, and I was chosen, together with my fellows, to be a preacher.

For, according as my Lord commanded me, lo! I preach and publish the Gospel, and lo! His money do I cast upon the table before you, and the seed of His word do I sow in the ears of all men; and such as are willing to receive it, theirs is the good recompense of the confession of Christ; but those who are not persuaded, the dust of my feet do I shake off against them, as He commanded me.

Repent therefore, my beloved, of evil ways and of abominable deeds, and turn yourselves towards Him with a good and honest will, as He hath turned Himself towards you with the favour of His rich mercies; and be ye not as the generations of former times that have passed away, which, because they hardened their heart against the fear of God, received punishment openly, that they themselves might be chastised, and that those who come after them may tremble and be afraid. For the purpose of our Lord's coming into the world assuredly was,(17) that He might teach us and show us that at the consummation of the creation there will be a resuscitation of all men, and that at that time their course of conduct will be portrayed in their persons, and their bodies will be volumes for the writings of justice; nor will any one be there who is unacquainted with books, because every one will read that which is written in His own book.(18)

Ye that have eyes, forasmuch as ye do not perceive, are yourselves also become like those who see not and hear not; and in vain do your ineffectual voices strain themselves to deaf(19) ears. Whilst they are not to be blamed for not heating, because they are by(20) nature deaf and dumb, yet the blame which is justly incurred falls upon you,(21) because ye are not willing to perceive-not even that which ye see. For the dark cloud of error which overspreads your minds suffers you not to obtain the heavenly light, which is the understanding of knowledge.(22)

Flee, then, from things made and created, as I said to you, which are only called gods in name, whilst they are not gods in their nature; and draw near to this Being, who in His nature is God from everlasting and from eternity, and is not something made, like your idols, nor is He a creature and a work of art, like those images in which ye glory. Because, although this(23) Being put on a body, yet is He God with His Father. For the works of creation, which trembled when He was slain and were dismay
ed at His suffering of death,-these bear witness that He is Himself God the Creator. For it was not on account of a man that the earth trembled,(24) but on account of Him who established the earth upon the waters; nor was it on account of a man that the sun grew dark in the heavens, but on account of Him who made the great lights; nor Was it for a man that the just and righteous were restored to life again, but for Him who had granted power over death from the beginning; nor was it for a man that the veil of the temple of the Jews was rent from the top to the bottom, but for Him who said to them, “Lo, your house is left desolate.” For, lo! unless those who crucified Him had known that He was the Son of God, they would not have had to proclaim(25) the desolation(26) of their city, nor would they have brought down Woe! upon themselves.(27) For, even if they had wished to make light of this confession,(28) the fearful convulsions which took place at that time would not have suffered them to do so. For lo! some even of the children of the crucifiers are become at this day preachers and evangelists, along with my fellow-apostles, in all the land of Palestine, and among the Samaritans, and in all the country of the Philistines. The idols also of paganism are despised, and the cross of Christ is honoured, and all nations and creatures confess God who became man.

If, therefore, while Jesus our Lord was on earth ye would have believed in Him that He is the Son of God, and before ye had heard the word of His preaching would have confessed Him that He is God; now that He is ascended to His Father, and ye have seen the signs and the wonders which are done in His name, and have heard with your own ears the word of His Gospel, let no one of you doubt in his mind-so that the promise of His blessing which He sent to you may be fulfilled(29) towards you: Blessed are ye that have believed in me, not having seen me; and, because ye have so believed in me, the town(30) in which ye dwell shall be blessed, and the enemy shall not prevail against it for ever.(31) Turn not away, therefore, from his faith: for, lo! ye have heard and seen what things bear witness to His faith-showing that He is the adorable Son, and is the glorious God, and is the victorious King, and is the mighty Power; and through faith in Him a man is able to acquire the eyes of a true mind,(32) and to understand that, whosoever worshippeth creatures, the wrath of justice will overtake him.

For in everything which we speak before you, according as we have received of the gift of our Lord, so speak we and teach and declare it, that ye may secure(33) your salvation and not destroy(34) your spirits through the error of paganism: because the heavenly light has arisen on the creation, and He it is who chose the fathers of former times, and the righteous men, and the prophets, and spoke with them in the revelation of the Holy Spirit.(35) For He is Himself the God of the Jews who crucified Him; and to Him it is that the erring pagans offer worship, even while they know it not: because there is no other God in heaven and on earth; and lo! confession ascendeth up to Him from the four quarters of the creation. Lo! therefore, your ears have heard that which was not heard by you; and lo! further, your eyes have seen that which was never seen by you.(36)

Be not, therefore, gainsayers of that which ye have seen and heard. Put away from you the rebellious mind of your fathers, and free yourselves from the yoke of sin, which hath dominion over you in libations and in sacrifices offered before carved images; and be ye concerned for your endangered(37) salvation, and for the unavailing support on which ye lean;(38) and get you a new mind, that worships the Maker and not the things which are made-a mind in which is portrayed the image of verity and of truth, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; believing and being baptized in the triple and glorious names. For this is our teaching and our preaching. For the belief of the truth of Christ does not consist of many things.(39) And those of you as are willing to be obedient to Christ are aware that I have many times repeated my words before you, in order that ye might learn and understand what ye hear.

And we ourselves shall rejoice in this, like the husbandman who rejoices in the field which is blessed; God also will be glorified by your repentance towards Him. While ye are saved hereby, we also, who give you this counsel, shall not be despoiled of the blessed reward of this work. And, because I am assured that ye are a land blessed according to the will of the Lord Christ, therefore, instead of the dust of our feet which we were commanded to shake off against the town that would not receive our words, I have shaken off to-day at the door of your ears the sayings of my lips, in which are portrayed the coming of Christ which has already been, and also that which is yet to be; and the resurrection, and the resuscitation of all men, and the separation which is to be made between the faithful and the unbelieving; and the sore punishment which is reserved for those who know not God, and the blessed promise of future joy which they shall receive who have believed in Christ and worshipped Him and His exalted Father, and have confessed Him and His divine Spirit.(40)

And now it is meet for us that I conclude my present discourse; and let those who have accepted the word of Christ remain with us, and those also who are willing to join with us in prayer; and afterwards let them go to their homes.

And Addaeus the apostle was rejoiced to see that a great number of the population of the city stayed with him; and they were but few who did not remain at that time, while even those few not many days after accepted his words and believed in the Gospel set forth in(41) the preaching of Christ.

And when Addaeus the apostle had spoken these things before all the town of Edessa, and King Abgar saw that all the city rejoiced in his teaching, men and women alike, and heard them saying to him, “True and faithful is Christ who sent thee to us”-he himself also rejoiced greatly at this, giving praise to God; because, like as he had heard from Hanan,(42) his Tabularius, about Christ, so had he seen the wonderful mighty-works which Addaeus the apostle did in the name of Christ.

And Abgar the king also said to him: According as I sent to Christ in my letter to Him, and according as He also sent to me, so have I also received from thine own self this day; so will I believe all the days of my life, and in the selfsame things will I continue and make my boast, because I know also that there is no other power in whose name these signs and wonders are done but the power of Christ whom thou preachest in verity and in truth. And henceforth Him will I worship-I and my son Maanu,(43) and Augustin,(44) and Shalmath the queen. And now, wherever thou desirest, build a church, a place of meeting for those who have believed and shall believe in thy words; and, according to the command given thee by thy Lord, minister thou at the seasons with confidence; to those also who shall be with thee as teachers of this Gospel I am prepared to give large donations, in order that they may not have any other work beside the ministry; and whatsoever is required by thee for the expenses of the building I myself will give thee without any restriction,(45) whilst thy word shall be authoritative and sovereign in this town; moreover, without the intervention of any other person do thou come into my presence as one in authority, into the palace of my royal majesty.

And when Abgar was gone down to his royal palace he rejoiced, he and his princes with him, Abdu son of Abdu, and Garmai, and Shemashgram,(46) and Abubai, and Meherdath,(47) together with the others their companions, at all that their eyes had seen and their ears also had heard; and in the gladness of their heart they too began to praise God for having turned their mind towards Him, renouncing the paganism in which they had lived,(4
8) and confessing the Gospel of Christ. And when Addaeus had built a church they proceeded to offer in it vows and oblations, they and the people of the city; and there they continued to present their praises all the days of their life.

And Avida and Barcalba,(49) who were chief men and rulers, and wore the royal headband,(50) drew near to Addaeus, and asked him about the matter of Christ, requesting that he would tell them how He, though He was God, appeared to them as a man: And how, said they, were ye able to look upon Him? And he proceeded to satisfy them all about this, about all that their eyes had seen and about whatsoever their ears had heard from him. Moreover, everything that the prophets had spoken concerning Him he repeated before them, and they received his words gladly and with faith, and there was not a man that withstood him; for the glorious deeds which he did suffered not any man to withstand him.

Shavida, moreover, and Ebednebu, chiefs of the priests of this town, together with Piroz(51) and Dilsu their companions, when they had seen the signs which he did, ran and threw down the altars on which they were accustomed to sacrifice before Nebu and Bel,(52) their gods, except the great altar which was in the middle of the town; and they cried out and said: Verily this is the disciple of that eminent and glorious Master, concerning whom we have heard all that He did in the country of Palestine. And all those who believed in Christ did Addaeus receive, and baptized them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And those who used to worship stones and stocks sat at his feet, recovered from the madness(53) of paganism wherewith they had been afflicted. Jews also, traders in fine raiment,(54) who were familiar with the law and the prophets-they too were persuaded, and became disciples, and confessed Christ that He is the Son of the living God.

But neither did King Abgar nor yet the Apostle Addaeus compel any man by force to believe in Christ, because without the force of man the force of the signs compelled many to believe in Him. And with affection did they receive His doctrine-all this country of Mesopotamia, and all the regions round about it.

Aggaeus, moreover, who(55) made the silks(56) and headbands of the king, and Palut, and Barshelama, and Barsamya, together with the others their companions, clave to Addaeus the apostle; and he received them, and associated them with him in the ministry, their business being to read in the Old Testament and the New,(57) and in the prophets, and in the Acts of the Apostles, and to meditate upon them daily; strictly charging them to let their bodies be pure and their persons holy, as is becoming in men who stand before the altar of God. “And be ye,” said he, “far removed from false swearing and from wicked homicide, and from dishonest testimony, which is connected with adultery; and from magic arts, for which there is no mercy, and from sooth-saying, and divination, and fortune-tellers; and from fate and nativities, of which the deluded Chaldeans make their boast; and from the stars, and the signs of the Zodiac, in which the foolish put their trust. And put far from you unjust partiality, and bribes, and presents, through which the innocent are pronounced guilty. And along with this ministry, to which ye have been called, see that ye have no other work besides: for the Lord is the work of your ministry all the days of your life. And be ye diligent to give the seal of baptism. And be not fond of the gains of this world. And hear yea cause with justice and with truth. And be ye not a stumbling-block to the blind, lest through you should be blasphemed the name of Him who opened the eyes of the blind, according as we have seen. Let all, therefore, who see you perceive that ye yourselves are in harmony with whatsoever ye preach and teach.”

Found here: http://www.studylight.org/his….143.htm

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2011,21:48)

Tempe, Az.

Here is one for you to try Mike. It sounds like there are students of the word there. They believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and the Apostles' Creed. That is something you have in common with them.

Service Times & Directions
Sunday Worship Services:
9:15am
11:00am
Connection Center Hours:
Monday – Friday: 8:30am to 3:30pm
Saturday: Closed
Sunday: 7:45am to 12:45pm
Location:
1200 East Southern Avenue
Tempe, AZ 85282-5498
(north side of Southern between Rural & McClintock)
480.894.2201

You should go and check it out, not just for one Sunday but really give it a chance. You might be surprised.

Goodnight,
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2011,21:12)

And Avida and Barcalba,(49) who were chief men and rulers, and wore the royal headband,(50) drew near to Addaeus, and asked him about the matter of Christ, requesting that he would tell them how He, though He was God, appeared to them as a man: And how, said they, were ye able to look upon Him? And he proceeded to satisfy them all about this,

I'm with Avida and Bacalba on this point. After all, Jesus himself said that NO MAN has seen God or heard His voice, yet here's this dude preaching that this same God is the One who said no man has seen God or heard His voice.

I wish Addaeus explained in full just HOW he was able to satisfiy this dilemma for poor Avida and Bacalba.

mike

[Lightenup]

Mike
It may have went something like this:

Just know that whenever God says something to you or when you see God, it is His Son who you are seeing and hearing and His Son is our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, even Jehovah as the Son of the unseen Jehovah. He you can see because the Godhead is both unseen and seen, heard and not heard because there are two persons within the Godhead with different purposes to demonstrate the perfection and sufficiency of the Godhead to relate to creation in love and power and wisdom. When you can no longer see Jesus, their Spirit is sent to dwell within you to continue to love you and demonstrate their power and wisdom as they guide you on your path, teach you what to say and do, and show you their kingdom. You can trust in Jesus to be the way to eternal life with them…only believe and follow Jesus, making Him Lord of your life. They love you with an everlasting love.

And then…

And all those who believed in Christ did Addaeus receive, and baptized them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And those who used to worship stones and stocks sat at his feet, recovered from the madness(53) of paganism wherewith they had been afflicted. Jews also, traders in fine raiment,(54) who were familiar with the law and the prophets-they too were persuaded, and became disciples, and confessed Christ that He is the Son of the living God.

[mikeboll64]

No, that couldn't have been it. I think, judging by the very fact that Avida and Bacalba were thinking the same thing I would have been thinking, they would not have been satisfied with your answer. Your answer still leaves us seeing the very God who told us no man has seen God.

It's really a very confusing business when one tries to mess with scripture, isn't it?

[Lightenup]

Mike,
They were however satisfied with Addaeus' answer weren't they. And, bottom line what Addaeus has said is in direct and utter conflict with the way you tried to mishandle scripture by changing words, adding words, misunderstanding words, etc. Addaeus was told by the Lord to shake off the dust at the doorstep and walk away because of those who do not receive his words about the Lord. These words for instance:

His exalted Godhead by the manhood which He took, and was crucified, and descended to the place of the dead, and broke through the enclosure(5) which had never been broken through before, and gave life to the dead by being slain Himself, and descended alone, and ascended with many to His glorious Father, with whom He had been from eternity in one exalted Godhead.

And, because I am assured that ye are a land blessed according to the will of the Lord Christ, therefore, instead of the dust of our feet which we were commanded to shake off against the town that would not receive our words…

You, Mike unfortunately you do not receive the words of Addaeus. I am trying to wake you up Mike, I don't want you to be the one who gets dusted by the apostles of Christ.

I know from experience that one cannot see until they are willing to see this. You have got to lay down your own understanding in order to see if God wants to show you something different.

Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2011,23:54)

Mike, They were however satisfied with Addaeus' answer weren't they

Kathi, are you a Trinitarian?

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