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Quote (t8 @ Sep. 10 2007,18:25) CultB. If you believe the following scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16\
All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,then you should believe other scriptures too, such as:
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Yet you do not teach these truths. Rather you deny them.
Shame on you.
Yes t8. Isaiha has already addressed the above with you, and I can understand why you are afraid to continue the debate with him.CB Yes, we are all waiting for our Saviors return, then we will all come to the knowledge of all truths.
No more confusion, like right now, that is going to be so great. Amen.Peace and Love Mrs.:D
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 10 2007,18:29) CB Yes, we are all waiting for our Saviors return, then we will all come to the knowledge of all truths.
No more confusion, like right now, that is going to be so great. Amen.Peace and Love Mrs.:D
Blessings Mrs IM4Truth
The Only True God
Since the one true God exists as a Godhead this means that the three Persons can be addressed as the only true God both individually and collectively. Putting it another way:
. The Godhead is the only true God.
· Each specific member of the Godhead is the only true God.
· Therefore, the members of the Godhead are the only true God, whether individually or collectively.This is why Jesus can speak of one member of the Godhead as the only true God without this implying that the other members are not God. To make this point more clear, notice what the inspired book of Hebrews says:
“But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
He also says, ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’” Hebrews 1:8-12
The Father praises his Son by calling him God, Lord, and the Creator!
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
referring to god the father only
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18 KJV)
JWs say that Jesus is not God because no man has seen God, but men saw Jesus. In saying this, however, they miss the point of John 1:18. Here the term God is used in a restrictive sense in reference to the Father–just as it is used in reference to the Son at Isaiah 9:6.
Context at Isaiah 9:6 reveals that God in that verse is the “child” who is born, the “son” who is given, yet this cannot be used to prove that the Father is not God. So, the fact that the title God is used specifically of the Father at certain other verses–such as John 1:18–cannot be used as an argument against the deity of Christ. It is the Father who “no man has ever seen.” (NIV)
The words at John 1:18 roughly parallel those of John 6:46, “No-one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. (NIV)
When discussing John 1:18, JWs would be more correct to say that Jesus is not the Father because no man has seen the Father, but men saw Jesus.These verses are referring to God the Father because Thomas saw God the Son when he exclaimed my Lord and my God”[/B]
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;Jesus' divinity was veiled by His humanity
Did anyone ever see God face to face?
The Bible is very explicit on this question:
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
These are important verses, since they tell us no one has seen God. Yet, we know from the Old Testament that people did see God. For instance, Exodus 24:9-11:
Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel.
Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
The Hebrew word hazah translated as “see” in Ex 24:11 means “to see or behold with the eyes”, according to Brown, Driver, and Briggs in their Hebrew and English Lexicon, where they make specific mention of this very verse.
Notice also Genesis 18, where Abraham has three visitors, one of whom turns out to be the Lord: Yahweh. See also Isaiah 6:1-3 where Isaiah saw God “high and lifted up” in the same way he saw the Seraphim; Numbers 12:6-8 tells us that Moses spoke to God face to face, rather than through visions or dreams, and that he sees “the form of God”;
Judges 13:20-23 explains that the father of Samson is afraid he might die because he has seen God. He is reassured by his wife when she points out that God would not have accepted their offering if he intended to kill them. Job 42:5 says that Job saw God.To explain the apparent contradiction between John 1:18 and 6:46, which very clearly state that no one has seen God — and Exodus 24 which very clearly says that Moses and seventy-three other folks did (not to mention the problems raised by the other passages), there is only one possible explanation: since no one has seen the Father, the only conclusion, then, is that the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh, is none other than the Jesus! This isn't so surprising considering that Romans 10:9-13 records:
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Everyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Paul has here quoted from Joel 2:32: “Everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh will be saved.” Yet Paul applies the statement to Christ. Consider also Acts 2:21 where the same passage is quoted from Joel and Peter again applies it to Jesus.Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Or Acts 4:10-12, where Peter says:
Then know this, you and everyone else in Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you completely healed. He is “the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.” Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
Salvation is by the Son, whether in the Old Testament or the New. Notice also what Isaiah 43:11 says:
I, even I, am Yahweh,
and apart from me there is no savior.CB The Father is above all. The Head of the Church is Christ, the Head of Christ is the Father.
I just got finished answering you on the preexisting tread about the same thing. Yes Christ is our Savior, but don't make the mistake and worship Him above the Father.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 10 2007,19:23) CB The Father is above all. The Head of the Church is Christ, the Head of Christ is the Father. I just got finished answering you on the preexisting tread about the same thing. Yes Christ is our Savior, but don't make the mistake and worship Him above the Father.
Peace and Love Mrs.
The Father is head only in the context of Christ's incarnation and Messiaship. Christ is equal with God because He is God.
He is not worshipped above the Father but with the Father, His equal.Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.To CultB.
Having, partaking, or sharing in God's nature doesn't mean that you are God.
2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.Even men can participate in divine nature.
God is God not because of divine nature, but because of who he is. For example, God is light and God is love. But God wants us to be the light and to partake of love. Form, nature, character is different from identity. We can have God's character and partake of his nature and yet still not be God. Can you grasp that? If you can, then you have no reason to confuse Jesus character, form, and nature from that of the Father.
If you cannot grasp it, then just believe in faith that Christ is the son of God. He is the son. To deny that and teach otherwise will cause you many problems.
Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:29) Yes t8. Isaiha has already addressed the above with you, and I can understand why you are afraid to continue the debate with him.
I mentioned to you before that this saying of yours is not true.But you continue to lie and say that I am afraid to debate with Isaiah. God is my witness, I am not afraid as I have said before. I have been debating with him for many years now. Yet you continue this lie.
It is a lie CultB. It isn't true. You have said 3 or more lies about me in the last month now. You need to repent of all lies CultB if you wish to have a clear conscience. Do it for yourself if you cannot do it for me.
CB
The Son is not equal with the Father otherwise scripture contradicts
Ephesians 4:4-6
ONE BODY,ONE SPIRIT(HOLY) ONE LORD,(JESUS) ONE BAPTISM,ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL W H O I S A B O V E A L L AND THROUGH US ALL, AND IN US ALL.
THEY ARE NOT E-Q U A L IT IS NOT ACCORDING TO SRIPTURE. IT WAS Quintus Septimus Tortellian that came up with it and the Roman Emperor Constantine change all the days into their pagan Holidays.
The Father is greater then I, the Head of the Church is Christ, the Head of Christ is the Father.
I was Catholic and blindly excepted all of that, I just wish that you would take your blinders of your eyes and see, you have to have an open mind to understand. I have posted to you before and this is the last time I am going to explain to you.Peace and Love Mrs.:(
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 10 2007,21:41) CB
The Son is not equal with the Father otherwise scripture contradicts
Ephesians 4:4-6
ONE BODY,ONE SPIRIT(HOLY) ONE LORD,(JESUS) ONE BAPTISM,ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL W H O I S A B O V E A L L AND THROUGH US ALL, AND IN US ALL.
THEY ARE NOT E-Q U A L IT IS NOT ACCORDING TO SRIPTURE. IT WAS Quintus Septimus Tortellian that came up with it and the Roman Emperor Constantine change all the days into their pagan Holidays.
The Father is greater then I, the Head of the Church is Christ, the Head of Christ is the Father.
I was Catholic and blindly excepted all of that, I just wish that you would take your blinders of your eyes and see, you have to have an open mind to understand. I have posted to you before and this is the last time I am going to explain to you.Peace and Love Mrs.:(
OK, I predict that CultB's next post will ignore what you said and he will paste the same scriptures that he always does with no understanding that he contradicts hundreds of scriptures.But perhaps now CultB will prove me wrong because I have mentioned what his next move will be. If so, I welcome it. A bit of intelligent discussion or even a reasonable one would be welcome.
I guess that all we can really do for him is pray for him.
How about we all pray for him?
Tux That is what the Catholic Church believes and my Husband and I were in that church from birth until God called us in 1984. When we started to read the Bible.
Sorry I am not going to dissect all of that. I know it is wrong. I gave you enough scriptures to see how wrong the trinity is. There is several article that Heaven Net has that you can read, just ask for the trinity doctrine. It explains better then I could ever do.But if t8 wants to, that of course is up to Him.
Peace and Love Mrs.
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