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Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,07:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,05:24) This is all prophecy that's why I don't understand why you don't believe in God. It's only going to get worse until the end
Exactly WHAT is prophecy? WHAT is 'only going to get worse'?That islamists will become more violent in the world? That would rather cancel out most of your pleadings about these people not really following islam, wouldn't it.
I feel luckier and luckier to live in a country that is skeptical about religion and does not have large numbers of people who think in the brutal and defeatist way that you appear to be.
When the islamists have finished with our world, do you think we might be allowed to have what is left of it?
Stuart
Hitler popular in New Zealand
2008-01-11 08:42Wellington – Wellington residents using the city council's libraries are reluctant to return books about Hitler, a newspaper reported on Friday.
Books about the Nazi leader, along with volumes on the paranormal, witchcraft, psychic abilities, true crime and tattoos, are among those most likely to be kept beyond the scheduled borrowing period, the Dominion Post said.
It reported that library users owe nearly NZ$900 000 in fines for overdue books.
The Fact is New Zealand is in a serious spiritual Crises, otherwise how could Hitler and racism be so popular there?
Many Asians living in New Zealand are subjected to some form of racism, a new study has found.
The Asia New Zealand Foundation report, Engaging Asian Communities in New Zealand, revealed the most common form of racism was verbal abuse and rude gestures, often by teenagers or children.
Overt racism included damage to cars identifiable as Asian-owned, having bottles or stones thrown at them, and being mocked for poor pronunciation.
Asia New Zealand's research director, Dr Rebecca Foley, said the main purpose of the research was to look at ways that engagement between various Asian communities and other communities happened — “or does not happen, as the case may be”.
so according to you spirituality is at its lowest point in NZ yet there is rising racism and inequality, godd going Atheist
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,16:41) Stu,Jan. wrote:[quote=bodhitharta,Jan. 08
Hitler popular in New Zealand
2008-01-11 08:42Wellington – Wellington residents using the city council's libraries are reluctant to return books about Hitler, a newspaper reported on Friday.
Books about the Nazi leader, along with volumes on the paranormal, witchcraft, psychic abilities, true crime and tattoos, are among those most likely to be kept beyond the scheduled borrowing period, the Dominion Post said.
It reported that library users owe nearly NZ$900 000 in fines for overdue books.
And this is evidence of what? That people who check these kind of books out are the least likely to return them? Don't know if that has anything in particular to do with NZ itself.
Quote Many Asians living in New Zealand are subjected to some form of racism, a new study has found. The Asia New Zealand Foundation report, Engaging Asian Communities in New Zealand, revealed the most common form of racism was verbal abuse and rude gestures, often by teenagers or children.
Overt racism included damage to cars identifiable as Asian-owned, having bottles or stones thrown at them, and being mocked for poor pronunciation.
Asia New Zealand's research director, Dr Rebecca Foley, said the main purpose of the research was to look at ways that engagement between various Asian communities and other communities happened — “or does not happen, as the case may be”.
so according to you spirituality is at its lowest point in NZ yet there is rising racism and inequality, godd going Atheist
Time to look in your own mirror: Racism in the Islamic CountriesI note how you so often avoid addressing posts, but deflect by pointing out the wrong in others instead. So here's a taste of your own medicine.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,11:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,16:41) Stu,Jan. wrote:[quote=bodhitharta,Jan. 08
Hitler popular in New Zealand
2008-01-11 08:42Wellington – Wellington residents using the city council's libraries are reluctant to return books about Hitler, a newspaper reported on Friday.
Books about the Nazi leader, along with volumes on the paranormal, witchcraft, psychic abilities, true crime and tattoos, are among those most likely to be kept beyond the scheduled borrowing period, the Dominion Post said.
It reported that library users owe nearly NZ$900 000 in fines for overdue books.
And this is evidence of what? That people who check these kind of books out are the least likely to return them? Don't know if that has anything in particular to do with NZ itself.
Quote Many Asians living in New Zealand are subjected to some form of racism, a new study has found. The Asia New Zealand Foundation report, Engaging Asian Communities in New Zealand, revealed the most common form of racism was verbal abuse and rude gestures, often by teenagers or children.
Overt racism included damage to cars identifiable as Asian-owned, having bottles or stones thrown at them, and being mocked for poor pronunciation.
Asia New Zealand's research director, Dr Rebecca Foley, said the main purpose of the research was to look at ways that engagement between various Asian communities and other communities happened — “or does not happen, as the case may be”.
so according to you spirituality is at its lowest point in NZ yet there is rising racism and inequality, godd going Atheist
Time to look in your own mirror: Racism in the Islamic CountriesI note how you so often avoid addressing posts, but deflect by pointing out the wrong in others instead. So here's a taste of your own medicine.
What is your point?My point was explaining to STU that the lack of religion in NZ does not equate to anything better at all, but you misunderstood what I was pointing out, nevertheless, my point was still proven!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,19:07) What is your point? My point was explaining to STU that the lack of religion in NZ does not equate to anything better at all, but you misunderstood what I was pointing out, nevertheless, my point was still proven!
*snicker*By admitting this, you are also admitting that the presence of some god does not benefit mankind either. Why, human problems seems to exist regardless of religious influence or not.
IOW, god belief does not benefit society.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,14:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,19:07) What is your point? My point was explaining to STU that the lack of religion in NZ does not equate to anything better at all, but you misunderstood what I was pointing out, nevertheless, my point was still proven!
*snicker*By admitting this, you are also admitting that the presence of some god does not benefit mankind either. Why, human problems seems to exist regardless of religious influence or not.
IOW, god belief does not benefit society.
God belief only benefits the believer.A non-believing society receives no benefit at all.
God benefits every believer I know and every single atheist I know is plagued by depression and distress.
If you are an atheist there is not one single doubt in my mind that you are plagued with resignation and depression
Quote Hitler popular in New Zealand
2008-01-11 08:42Wellington – Wellington residents using the city council's libraries are reluctant to return books about Hitler, a newspaper reported on Friday.
Books about the Nazi leader, along with volumes on the paranormal, witchcraft, psychic abilities, true crime and tattoos, are among those most likely to be kept beyond the scheduled borrowing period, the Dominion Post said.
It reported that library users owe nearly NZ$900 000 in fines for overdue books.
The Fact is New Zealand is in a serious spiritual Crises, otherwise how could Hitler and racism be so popular there?
Many Asians living in New Zealand are subjected to some form of racism, a new study has found.
The Asia New Zealand Foundation report, Engaging Asian Communities in New Zealand, revealed the most common form of racism was verbal abuse and rude gestures, often by teenagers or children.
Overt racism included damage to cars identifiable as Asian-owned, having bottles or stones thrown at them, and being mocked for poor pronunciation.
Asia New Zealand's research director, Dr Rebecca Foley, said the main purpose of the research was to look at ways that engagement between various Asian communities and other communities happened — “or does not happen, as the case may be”.
so according to you spirituality is at its lowest point in NZ yet there is rising racism and inequality, godd going Atheist
Many New Zealanders have visited Auchwitz (I am one of them). You would conclude from this that I wish to incinerate Jews! Nazi Germany is a very popular topic amongst secondary school social studies teachers in New Zealand, and not returning library books is a very popular means of neglecting ones responsibilities for Wellington’s teenagers. I don’t particularly mind that lots of books on all sorts of topics have been stolen from libraries at my expense as a taxpayer. If they are being read then that will only be good for our society in the longer term. Young people here know the truth about what the Nazis did, and it horrifies them (which is part of the reason it appeals!).I suspect young people in Iran only know the lies inspired by the president and the clergy, and are the future generation most likely to repeat the atrocities of World War II. Do they teach about the Jewish holocaust in Iran? I bet they are expected to lie through their teeth about it!
Unlike in NZ, there must be many children in islamic republics who don’t have access to a liberal selection of library books. I know which of those two options looks most to me like a country that is at a ‘low point’ spiritually.
Indeed there is racism in New Zealand, but I have never heard anyone suggest that Korea, say, has no right to exist and should be wiped off the world map. I do know of muslims who have said exactly that about Israel though.
“In spiritual crisis” would seem to be putting it mildly when it comes to islamism, if your criteria are those against which it is to be judged.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2010,15:47) Quote Hitler popular in New Zealand
2008-01-11 08:42Wellington – Wellington residents using the city council's libraries are reluctant to return books about Hitler, a newspaper reported on Friday.
Books about the Nazi leader, along with volumes on the paranormal, witchcraft, psychic abilities, true crime and tattoos, are among those most likely to be kept beyond the scheduled borrowing period, the Dominion Post said.
It reported that library users owe nearly NZ$900 000 in fines for overdue books.
The Fact is New Zealand is in a serious spiritual Crises, otherwise how could Hitler and racism be so popular there?
Many Asians living in New Zealand are subjected to some form of racism, a new study has found.
The Asia New Zealand Foundation report, Engaging Asian Communities in New Zealand, revealed the most common form of racism was verbal abuse and rude gestures, often by teenagers or children.
Overt racism included damage to cars identifiable as Asian-owned, having bottles or stones thrown at them, and being mocked for poor pronunciation.
Asia New Zealand's research director, Dr Rebecca Foley, said the main purpose of the research was to look at ways that engagement between various Asian communities and other communities happened — “or does not happen, as the case may be”.
so according to you spirituality is at its lowest point in NZ yet there is rising racism and inequality, godd going Atheist
Many New Zealanders have visited Auchwitz (I am one of them). You would conclude from this that I wish to incinerate Jews! Nazi Germany is a very popular topic amongst secondary school social studies teachers in New Zealand, and not returning library books is a very popular means of neglecting ones responsibilities for Wellington’s teenagers. I don’t particularly mind that lots of books on all sorts of topics have been stolen from libraries at my expense as a taxpayer. If they are being read then that will only be good for our society in the longer term. Young people here know the truth about what the Nazis did, and it horrifies them (which is part of the reason it appeals!).I suspect young people in Iran only know the lies inspired by the president and the clergy, and are the future generation most likely to repeat the atrocities of World War II. Do they teach about the Jewish holocaust in Iran? I bet they are expected to lie through their teeth about it!
Unlike in NZ, there must be many children in islamic republics who don’t have access to a liberal selection of library books. I know which of those two options looks most to me like a country that is at a ‘low point’ spiritually.
Indeed there is racism in New Zealand, but I have never heard anyone suggest that Korea, say, has no right to exist and should be wiped off the world map. I do know of muslims who have said exactly that about Israel though.
“In spiritual crisis” would seem to be putting it mildly when it comes to islamism, if your criteria are those against which it is to be judged.
Stuart
Why make excuses? You seem to suggest that NZ was doing well because of neglecting religionQuote God belief only benefits the believer. A non-believing society receives no benefit at all.
God benefits every believer I know and every single atheist I know is plagued by depression and distress.
If you are an atheist there is not one single doubt in my mind that you are plagued with resignation and depression
There is no doubt in my mind that you do not know me then. I would say that most religionists are plagues with pig-headed certainty, where none is justified. Meantime those who consider all points of view are full of doubt. If everyone were willing to question their beliefs on an ongoing basis, happy to be permanently skeptical and doubtful, then the world would be a much less brutal place.
The mindless certainty of the 'positive jihadist' (what a euphamism that is!) may or may not protect him against mental illness, but it does not provide any kind of cure for blowing himself up in a market square. Others nearby receive no benefit at all from that kind of god-belief. Those who live through it and have to nurse wounds from the event may be subject to bouts of depression, all brought on by believing that allah seemed like a great idea at the time.
I would say I am sane and have a certificate to prove it!…
…but that would be to recycle a very old joke.
Stuart
Quote Why make excuses? You seem to suggest that NZ was doing well because of neglecting religion What excuses was I making? New Zealand is a modern Western democracy that provides a world-class liberal education (essentially) free to every citizen. We are the LEAST CORRUPT nation in the world and enjoy a high standard of living, based mainly on a tradition of technological innovation in agriculture. Culturally, in general, we pretty much ignore religion, and while we are not free of problems, we are doing pretty well thanks. Is there a correlation? Internationally there most certainly there is. Is it a causal relationship? Not necessarily, but it is certainly true that we have not needed religion to be successful.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,17:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 08 2010,06:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,13:24) It's only going to get worse until the end
I am sure Islamic terror will get worse as it is already showing in the recent attempt of a 23 year old Nigerian Islamist which had an explosive device strapped to his leg and tried to blow up a plane to kill hundreds on Christmas day!WJ
So now you don't believe in tribulations?You don't believe in the end time prophecies?
BDI think I said that I believe Islamic terror was gonna get worse didn't I?
WJ
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,21:57) God belief only benefits the believer. That's debatable. Some of the most miserable people I know believe in some god. They live in fear and guilt of never being able to please their god.
Quote A non-believing society receives no benefit at all. Just as non-stamp collecting is not beneficial. Well, wait, you save money by not buying stamps and supplies!
Quote God benefits every believer I know and every single atheist I know is plagued by depression and distress. If you are an atheist there is not one single doubt in my mind that you are plagued with resignation and depression
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!Seriously dude, you are deluding yourself. I am not an atheist, but I am certainly agnostic. The same should then apply to me.
My ex-wife demanded a divorce from me years ago, while I was still a Christian. She was (and still is) one of the most unhappy and depressed people I know. My son lives with her but begs to stay with me all of the time because I am rarely in a bad mood. My daughter, who is in college, feels the same when when she comes home.
But let me inform you: my mood is basically the same as it was when I was a Christian. Belief in a god did not change my core personality, it simply changed some of my practices.
Your assumption is based on ignorance.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 07 2010,21:57) God belief only benefits the believer. That's debatable. Some of the most miserable people I know believe in some god. They live in fear and guilt of never being able to please their god.
Quote A non-believing society receives no benefit at all. Just as non-stamp collecting is not beneficial. Well, wait, you save money by not buying stamps and supplies!
Quote God benefits every believer I know and every single atheist I know is plagued by depression and distress. If you are an atheist there is not one single doubt in my mind that you are plagued with resignation and depression
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!Seriously dude, you are deluding yourself. I am not an atheist, but I am certainly agnostic. The same should then apply to me.
My ex-wife demanded a divorce from me years ago, while I was still a Christian. She was (and still is) one of the most unhappy and depressed people I know. My son lives with her but begs to stay with me all of the time because I am rarely in a bad mood. My daughter, who is in college, feels the same when when she comes home.
But let me inform you: my mood is basically the same as it was when I was a Christian. Belief in a god did not change my core personality, it simply changed some of my practices.
Your assumption is based on ignorance.
Why do you think she was depressed and unhappy?Was it your resignation and failure to draw her to you?
I don't mean to be mean but the fact is most men fail to be Godly and failing to be the man of the house they often become pushovers and get left.
I find Christians have a big problem being men these days
hence you blamed your weakness on Christianity and God
instead of your own weakness, incompetence and perhaps impotence.You should not have given up your manhood to pretend being Christian but it's not your fault that's how they train Christian men these days.
You should repent to God for allowing a women to be your IDOL. Had you put God before your wife she would have never left you(Sorry , but it's the truth)
Assertion from ignorance,
making unsupported personal assumptions,
patrician attitude,
the argument from personal anecdote,
TRAINING CHRISTIANS? I thought they trained the lions that ate them!,
and gross sexism.In that order.
What a great advertisement for BD's brand of religion.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,11:27) Assertion from ignorance,
making unsupported personal assumptions,
patrician attitude,
the argument from personal anecdote,
TRAINING CHRISTIANS? I thought they trained the lions that ate them!,
and gross sexism.In that order.
What a great advertisement for BD's brand of religion.
Stuart
Your brand of rejecting religion is causing the youth of NZ to commit suicide in large numbersQuote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:16) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,11:27) Assertion from ignorance,
making unsupported personal assumptions,
patrician attitude,
the argument from personal anecdote,
TRAINING CHRISTIANS? I thought they trained the lions that ate them!,
and gross sexism.In that order.
What a great advertisement for BD's brand of religion.
Stuart
Your brand of rejecting religion is causing the youth of NZ to commit suicide in large numbers
Please provide the evidence that LINKS the two.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:16) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,11:27) Assertion from ignorance,
making unsupported personal assumptions,
patrician attitude,
the argument from personal anecdote,
TRAINING CHRISTIANS? I thought they trained the lions that ate them!,
and gross sexism.In that order.
What a great advertisement for BD's brand of religion.
Stuart
Your brand of rejecting religion is causing the youth of NZ to commit suicide in large numbers
Please provide the evidence that LINKS the two.Stuart
The facts are clear, lack of religion increase in suicide, period!This source
Has this to say about youth suicide in New Zealand:
The New Zealand youth suicide rate has been gradually decreasing since 1996.
(That is a trend consistent with a decrease in religious belief over the same period).
Research indicates that suicide is associated with depression, hopelessness, adjustment difficulty and severe stresses or life crises, including relationship break-ups. Bullying and intimidation in the peer group have been implicated in youth suicide. Youth' 07 publication on health and wellbeing of the secondary school students undertaken by The University of Auckland reported that same/both-sex-attracted students were more likely to report serious thoughts about attempting suicide (39%) compared to opposite-sex-attracted students (13%) (Rossen et al, 2009). It also showed that one fifth of same/both-sex-attracted students attempted suicide in contrast to 4% of opposite-sex-attracted students. The wider issues of youth depression and hopelessness are of concern for educators, families and the wider community.
(The problem is very definitely one encountered by young homosexuals. Would you seriously suggest that either islam or christianity are good options for young gay people trying to work out where they fit into society? They are ‘worthy of death’ according to Saul of Tarsus! Don’t forget that we do have all the same fundamentalist sects as anywhere else in the West, but a smaller population: young people hounded by their RELIGIOUS families will have fewer people to turn to in general, and especially on farms in rural areas have a greater range of lethal means available to them.)
This website
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ….f4c.htm
makes these points:
Higher youth suicide rates than in New Zealand are reported for Lithuania (young males) and Singapore (young females). Higher youth suicide rates than in New Zealand also appear to exist in Samoa, Micronesia, Guam, and among the Indian population of Fiji. The pattern of higher rates of youth suicide for Māori compared to the general population are similar to patterns for indigenous youth in Australia, Canada, and the USA.
(Lithuania, Fiji, Samoa, the Micronesian islands and Guam all have much higher rates of religious belief than New Zealand: the overwhelming majority of the combined populations of these countries identify as Roman Catholic.)
Check out this list of the total suicide stats (not just young people) on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
If anything, there is a predominance of Catholic countries near the top. I am not suggesting a causal link, but it would be just as valid as making a link with rates of non-belief. One problem with this list is that there are many countries near the bottom who, frankly, must be severely underreporting. For example coroner courts in New Zealand try to assign ‘intentional’ car crashes as suicide, whereas other countries just list them under road crash statistics.
Remember the rates of professed non-belief only account for about 25% of most populations. To have a measurable effect you would have to have lots of religious believers killing themselves.
This paper
http://www.wnmeds.ac.nz/academi….act.pdf
is a detailed study of possible factors. To boil it down, you are less at risk of suicide if you are straight, mentally well, have a job or are in education, have a stable family, and no access to lethal chemicals or weapons. No mention of religions or life philosophy there anywhere.
There was a significant increase in those suicide rates in the 1980s, a time of the biggest economic reform in New Zealand’s history. The primary sector was massively and unsustainably subsidised and we were going into debt at a great rate. There are still people here who are very angry at what the government did back then, and the cost they perceive it had on them and their families, because of increases in unemployment and the resultant breakup of families from the strain of it. We would probably have slid into banana republic status without those policy changes though. There was also a world-wide increase in youth suicide at the same time, but New Zealand suffered from a greater and more sustained increase than in other countries.
Suicide is an insidious thing in that once more people than usual do take their own lives the effect snowballs and will take lifetimes to drop again.
It seems your fatuous claim is disappearing into thin air. New Zealand does have a problem with youth suicide, and there would appear to be no relationship with religion at all. The situation is slowly improving, too. New Zealand does not have a significantly worse problem with suicide in general. If your assertion was right, you would be expecting the effect to apply across the whole population and you would expect to see more countries with higher rates of atheism also having higher suicide rates. Neither is true.
At least when people in NZ do commit suicide they do not generally kill others in the name of their god at the same time.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:38) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,15:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:16) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,11:27) Assertion from ignorance,
making unsupported personal assumptions,
patrician attitude,
the argument from personal anecdote,
TRAINING CHRISTIANS? I thought they trained the lions that ate them!,
and gross sexism.In that order.
What a great advertisement for BD's brand of religion.
Stuart
Your brand of rejecting religion is causing the youth of NZ to commit suicide in large numbers
Please provide the evidence that LINKS the two.Stuart
The facts are clear, lack of religion increase in suicide, period!
Do you understand the difference between correlation and causal?There is a correlation between the likelihood of committing an act of terrorism and identifying as islamic. You deny it is a causal relationship (although I think we have actually seen enough evidence to demonstrate causality in that example).
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,16:36) Why do you think she was depressed and unhappy? Couldn't tell you, I'm not a psychologist.
Quote Was it your resignation and failure to draw her to you? Sorry, but I believe other people are not to be the source of our own happiness. Plus, I do not believe that men control women as Islam teaches.
Quote I don't mean to be mean but the fact is most men fail to be Godly and failing to be the man of the house they often become pushovers and get left. Have you stopped beating your wife, BD?
Quote I find Christians have a big problem being men these days
hence you blamed your weakness on Christianity and God
instead of your own weakness, incompetence and perhaps impotence.You should not have given up your manhood to pretend being Christian but it's not your fault that's how they train Christian men these days.
You should repent to God for allowing a women to be your IDOL. Had you put God before your wife she would have never left you(Sorry , but it's the truth)
What a load of rubbish. You presume too much, and know none of the facts.All I see in you is a bigot who thinks that only those who practice your chosen religion are right. It is people like yourself who give your religion a bad name.
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,16:14) This source Has this to say about youth suicide in New Zealand:
The New Zealand youth suicide rate has been gradually decreasing since 1996.
(That is a trend consistent with a decrease in religious belief over the same period).
Research indicates that suicide is associated with depression, hopelessness, adjustment difficulty and severe stresses or life crises, including relationship break-ups. Bullying and intimidation in the peer group have been implicated in youth suicide. Youth' 07 publication on health and wellbeing of the secondary school students undertaken by The University of Auckland reported that same/both-sex-attracted students were more likely to report serious thoughts about attempting suicide (39%) compared to opposite-sex-attracted students (13%) (Rossen et al, 2009). It also showed that one fifth of same/both-sex-attracted students attempted suicide in contrast to 4% of opposite-sex-attracted students. The wider issues of youth depression and hopelessness are of concern for educators, families and the wider community.
(The problem is very definitely one encountered by young homosexuals. Would you seriously suggest that either islam or christianity are good options for young gay people trying to work out where they fit into society? They are ‘worthy of death’ according to Saul of Tarsus! Don’t forget that we do have all the same fundamentalist sects as anywhere else in the West, but a smaller population: young people hounded by their RELIGIOUS families will have fewer people to turn to in general, and especially on farms in rural areas have a greater range of lethal means available to them.)
This website
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ….f4c.htm
makes these points:
Higher youth suicide rates than in New Zealand are reported for Lithuania (young males) and Singapore (young females). Higher youth suicide rates than in New Zealand also appear to exist in Samoa, Micronesia, Guam, and among the Indian population of Fiji. The pattern of higher rates of youth suicide for Māori compared to the general population are similar to patterns for indigenous youth in Australia, Canada, and the USA.
(Lithuania, Fiji, Samoa, the Micronesian islands and Guam all have much higher rates of religious belief than New Zealand: the overwhelming majority of the combined populations of these countries identify as Roman Catholic.)
Check out this list of the total suicide stats (not just young people) on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
If anything, there is a predominance of Catholic countries near the top. I am not suggesting a causal link, but it would be just as valid as making a link with rates of non-belief. One problem with this list is that there are many countries near the bottom who, frankly, must be severely underreporting. For example coroner courts in New Zealand try to assign ‘intentional’ car crashes as suicide, whereas other countries just list them under road crash statistics.
Remember the rates of professed non-belief only account for about 25% of most populations. To have a measurable effect you would have to have lots of religious believers killing themselves.
This paper
http://www.wnmeds.ac.nz/academi….act.pdf
is a detailed study of possible factors. To boil it down, you are less at risk of suicide if you are straight, mentally well, have a job or are in education, have a stable family, and no access to lethal chemicals or weapons. No mention of religions or life philosophy there anywhere.
There was a significant increase in those suicide rates in the 1980s, a time of the biggest economic reform in New Zealand’s history. The primary sector was massively and unsustainably subsidised and we were going into debt at a great rate. There are still people here who are very angry at what the government did back then, and the cost they perceive it had on them and their families, because of increases in unemployment and the resultant breakup of families from the strain of it. We would probably have slid into banana republic status without those policy changes though. There was also a world-wide increase in youth suicide at the same time, but New Zealand suffered from a greater and more sustained increase than in other countries.
Suicide is an insidious thing in that once more people than usual do take their own lives the effect snowballs and will take lifetimes to drop again.
It seems your fatuous claim is disappearing into thin air. New Zealand does have a problem with youth suicide, and there would appear to be no relationship with religion at all. The situation is slowly improving, too. New Zealand does not have a significantly worse problem with suicide in general. If your assertion was right, you would be expecting the effect to apply across the whole population and you would expect to see more countries with higher rates of atheism also having higher suicide rates. Neither is true.
At least when people in NZ do commit suicide they do not generally kill others in the name of their god at the same time.
Stuart
So if they had been taught not to be homosexuals from youth many would still be alive, right?
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