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T8,
My beloved brother when you say “I feel that we could spend our lives here defending ourselves against the accusations of others.” you are so right, as long as we are doing the will of God we will always have accusations. Remember they accused Paul of many things and even our Lord of being of Beelzebub so we are in good company.God bless you for all you do, and do what you have to, with the Lord's guidance, I will be holding this up in prayer.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 23 2006,18:05) There are peacemakers and peacekeepers, peacemakers address the issue at it's cause, peacekeepers just try to enforce peace through manipulation, I pray this is not what I'm attempting. The intent of my post is not to have us ignore issues they need to be addressed but at some point we are “beating a dead horse” and it does nothing. Open for correction.
Perhaps I took it farther than God wanted me too. For this I apologize. Sometimes we refuse to hear God or dismiss it as Satan trying to confuse us. This I know that Nick has a problem and God wanted me to reach him. I pray I have.kenrch,
If you've done what the Lord has asked, you are done. God has never held the messenger responsible for how the receiver responds. Be encouraged and press on to the upward calling.Quote (david @ Sep. 17 2006,19:47) To Heiscoming and Nick,
This is me budding in,
I have noticed on this thread that sometimes I have gone pages talking with someone thinking they understand what I am saying or I think I understand what they are saying (such as with Nick and myself) only to find out I don't or they don't.
Due to the nature of the forum, things aren't always exactly totally clear. Misunderstandings are easier on here. Jumping to conclusions is also dangerous, as Nick knows. Once I asked him about the book he was reading in the picture (his avatar) and he jumped to the crazy conclusion that I cracked into a private website about him. He was quite mad, because it was supposed to be a PRIVATE website, and suddenly someone had access to it that shouldn't have, he thought. But a moment later, he realized the misunderstanding and apologized. So before jumping to conclusions, always realize our own imperfections. Always realize that mistakes lie on both sides, as both sides are imperfect. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
Even if Nick had not actually done anything wrong, he somehow angered H or hurt him…emotionally. (chuckle) So really, Nick could have quite easily just apologized and made the whole thing go away in a second, by wronging himself, by taking the bullet.
Similarly, Heiscoming could have not pushed this, and not been paranoid about not having access for three days.t8 or Nick,
Just out of curiousity, when Nick or an Admin edits something, is it just as when one of us edits something, so that we know there has been an edit?david
David,
I'm in complete agreement, good post. Satan would like nothing more then to tear this site apart. And I believe it would give him no greater pleasure then to use us to do it.Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 23 2006,20:40) kenrch,
If you've done what the Lord has asked, you are done. God has never held the messenger responsible for how the receiver responds. Be encouraged and press on to the upward calling.
Amen and thanks seekingtruth!Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2006,10:32) Hi seekingtruth. Thanks for your post and your wisdom brother.
I feel that we could spend our lives here defending ourselves against the accusations of others. I have been accused of being antichrist, and all sorts of other things. But yes you are right in that we can glorify God in the end. But I do prefer that these kinds of people didn't come here in the first place. That way we would be free to discover the scriptures together.
However I suppose that we should just accept that we will be opposed in every way. In a funny old way, accusation and persecution leads us to dig deeper into our beliefs so the result is the same in the end.
But the friction is the part I don't enjoy.
thx
The deception is the part I don't enjoy. I asked if given the evidence you ask for, what you would do with it T8. Unless I have missed it, you have yet to tell me.Here is the thing I always remember, and it always comes to pass. All things in the end come to good for those who trust in the Lord and even if it is not see in a day or a week or a month or a year on this forum, for those who trust in the Lord, the day will come that the good in this this will come. So continue to fight the good fight my brother and sisters in the Lord. And know that I love you and will hold you up in my prayers always. The Lord will deal with this as he sees fit.
I asked t8 for time to fast and pray in this matter as to what recourse I should take. If he does the right thing, I will be given time and I ask that I be give til next Sunday. If it is the will of the Lord, I will leave without posting anything, for my work will be done and the proof of my stand will be in my testimony alone. Yet, if he wants me to stay, I will post what proof I do have as to Nick saying one thing and saying another.
It does no good other then to show who is of truth and who is not when this sort happen. I sent Nick the PM to tell him that he lied again, I would expose him. I did as according to God's Word. Nick acted out according to his flesh and posted it for all to see. It did not anger me in the slightest, for I knew it was the will of the Father and that it would work out for his glory. By Nick posting the PM showed to all his true constitution and that he does things not by the unction of the Holy Spirit, but through the flesh. Now, we are all guilty of this, and I know we are at one time or another have posted things that we should not, for we are are men. And it is for this reason I forgave Nick. Yet, this is not the first altercation I have had with him and that takes us back to the PM.
Nick is very compassionate at what he does, but it is unfounded and is his own doctrine. If you look at the threads I posted, besides myself, he posted more then anyone else. He posts because he likes to argue. He at times says things like he wants to try to understand but on the other hand he tells you how wrong your thread is and that your gospel is another gospel. Yet, he cannot comprehend or grasp the truth of the thread, because the truth is not in him.
He says I don't post scripture, but my threads are filled with scripture. I don't know if the reason he refused to believe is because I stand on the King James or that he is just indoctrinated in the doctrine of Nick. I can prove every word using God's Holy Writ on the 3 baptisms. And I asked him to do the study. I ask all to do the study. I believe if all do the study they will know that this is from God and not from man.
Quote (Cubes @ Sep. 22 2006,17:41) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 20 2006,21:31) Quote (Cubes @ Sep. 19 2006,22:09) Hi Kenrch, Regarding Nick's sharing of the PM sent to him, I think in this case Nick was right to share it for the following reasons (and please don't think I am taking sides. I consider both H & Nick as my brothers and friends):
1. The content of the PM is about Nick (Not H), thus Nick's prerogative to do with it what he wants.
2. H said that it was out of regard to Nick he PM'd him rather than publicize the content, so again, this gives Nick the prerogative to do what he wants with the unfavorable information about himself.
3. In this case, given the content of the PM, I side with Nick's handling of it. If we don't bring such things to light we run the risk of being under the power of others or living in fear, which for both parties' sake, is uncalled for.
4. On the other hand, the issue about which H speaks can also now be addressed as among brethren, as is being done now.
Having said all that, I do respect and acknowledge your concerns for confidentiality and privacy for the most part.
Hi Cubes,You are siding against scripture:
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him “ALONE “: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.Is this what our brother (who is a teacher) did? Did he confront H about the matter? NO! Did he tell t8 about it BEFORE bring it before the forum? NO!
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee ONE OR TWO MORE , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Did Nick do this? NO!
Nick did “his” thing and did not follow scripture. Who is Nick that he can break rules and ignore what our Lord said?
Nick cannot apologize because his pride won't let him. Sad but nonetheless true.
Should not have Nick followed scripture? Of course he should have but he doesn't seem to care that he didn't. Jesus Christ said through scripture that what Nick did was wrong.
How can anyone say Nick did nothing wrong when scripture point to the truth. It's in black and white! He did wrong and he knows he did wrong but won't apologize.Perhaps someone may explain what Matt. 18:15-17 means. since Nick won't apologize and some of you believe he is right.
Hi Ken,Sorry for my delayed response. I put forth what I hope to be an unbiased view.
We will not side with others because they are great or small, rich or poor…, but we would by the grace of God judge justly. Not condemn any, however.
Let me say that what I am writing is solely based on the OP and implies no further knowledge of whatever may have transpired privately between the two.
You see this as a dispute but I see it as post-dispute.
Imagine if Nick had written that same PM to H, basically saying H has been found to be this, that and the other thing and has been unrelenting when it was brought to his attention; thus the next time around he would be sure that all knew that H is XY and Z. Imagine Nick says to H, I would have told this to the church by now but for your sake, I'm giving you this warning now. Don't let it happen again or else I shall let everyone know that you are XY and Z. This accusation appears to question the integrity of one as a christian and a teacher.
That is what I understood H's PM to mean.
Mind you, the obvious contention b/n the two has been going on over the forum for sometime, for those who follow their debates, as David noted above.
My subjective understanding of what Nick did is that he decided to cut thru' the chase and fast forward this before the church: He seemed to be saying, If I am XY and Z as you say, let all tell me so or let me be once and for all exonerated from your accusations.
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1. Apparently both brothers got tired: I understand H to be saying, Nick is not fit to be a teacher based on character so would be ready to expose him if he persists. Scripture allows for that.2. I understand Nick to be subjecting himself to and appealing to the church's judgment. Scripture allows for that too.
Not comparing Nick to Christ nor H to Judas Iscariot, I refer to the last supper solely for illustration purposes to help us judge more objectively. Did this sort of thing not happen at the Last Supper when Jesus commented that he who dipped his hand with him was going to betray him (his disciples wanted to know). Perhaps as AP stated, Nick might have removed H's name.
Did Jesus not tell Judas to hurry up and get it over with? In this case, Nick presented it prerogatively. Jesus didn't have a private conversation with Judas or bring Judas before two or three as far as we know. Why? Because it was not about a dispute at that point, for onething.
H may have a valid point upon which he based his accusations, as does Nick for bringing what seems like a hidden threat to the open. Jesus brought his threat to the open. He didn't directly name the person.
Like it or not, the ball is in the court of the church regarding this:
Is Nick guilty of the things that H says of him? Nick listed it some pages ago and H clarified it.
If Nick is guilty, then what should we and/or Nick do?
If Nick is not guilty, then what should we and/or H do?
That's the real issue I think.
What the issue is not, is that Nick chose to make public what he perceived to be a threat. We cannot fault anyone of us for doing that.
Dear Cubes,Thank you. Well done with the one acception. My PM to Nick was that if he was to lie again, I would expose him. I did not want any of this to happen and I wanted Nick to safeguard himself as to not get caught in a situation as to where I would have to take action against him. It does no one good to go through these things, but it is not good for saints to be led by one who is not standing on all truth or who is teaching things that are contrary to the gospel. So that is the reason I sent the PM.
Now, we are to abide by the rules set down before us, as by authorities. And I though a personal message was a message that was between two individuals and them alone. Is this not the purpose of this? If not, then why do we not all have access to all conversation of all private messages? Now, even though I did state I at first thought about posting it on the forum, but I did not, no place in the message did I give my permission to Nick to post it.
Now, the proper thing for him to do would have been to lodge a complaint to the moderator as to the PM. And then then between myself, Nick and the moderator, I could have been asked if it was fine by me that it be posted. If the warning was of truth, I would have had no problem and I would have said to post it and let my brothers and sisters in the Lord know what has transpired. That is the proper way this should have happened. The way it happened was the way of the flesh.
Not that it matters about it being posted, I would have done so anyway. By Nick doi
ng what he did just revealed to all that he cannot be trusted and by t8 standing behind Nick and in defense of Nick has proven he too cannot be trusted.I love them both, but they do not what to know what is faithful and true. One thing though, this might be my last chance to tell you all that I love you.
His Word is My Sword,
HeIsComingInTheCloudsSorry t8, I did not go back far enough into the thread to see the you did answer my question as to how you would handle the situation given I posted the proof. Forgive me.
Hi t8,
If you could explain that I do not have the knowledge or ability to make alterations to the posts made by others on this site it would clarify some things.If so then at the best H has made a wrong assumption and has uinfairly blamed me for some glitch of which we are all unaware.
I have asked H, as you have too, to come up with the concrete evidence of this accusation which I would love to see as it is impossible, and he has blustered ever since but never found that evidence.
That might at least remove some of the heat from the accusations against me leaving only lying, deception, laziness, false teaching and being thoroughly evil.
Now Nick, if I have the proof, would not your statement above be a lie.
As for the laziness, accusation, I ask that Nick show all where this occured and to prove my memory is well and in tact, I am saying he is once again telling a lie. Because if you read the thread, I said he was lazy, but recanted and said he I did not believe he was lazy because of the amount of time he spend promoting his doctrine of Nick.
This will also give validity as to my memory of the prior altercation in that there was conversation changed. Requardless, I will do as is the will of the Father by prayer and fasting. He will reveal the all the deception in this matter. And I believe he has already given the clue to the mystery of this deception. If I can stay here for the seven days that I ask, I believe the Lord's will be done. If I am banned from the group prior, then you all will know that the deception ran deeper then just with Nick. I pray the will of the Lord be done and that all honesty and truth is revealed in this matter.
Hi H,
No if you are banned it wil be because your behaviour among us has fallen far below that which is expected from a loving member of the body of Christ and your presence here is not unifying but destructive and divisive.As for your last post Nick, I suggest you defend yourself with saying I said you were lazy. Deal with this one first before you have to deal with the rest. As I said, and I am relying on memory, I did say that Nick was lazy, but did recant saying it. He knows this. I will now go and find this if it is still there.
As for getting banned, as I said it will be to prevent the truth from coming out if there is involvement of more then of individual. If there is nothing to fear, then I will still be here next Sunday. One way or the other, the truth will be revealed.
And now I will go and find Nick's latest altercation and I will post it.
Hi everyone,
I'm a newcomer to this forum, I spent a couple of hours yesterday just reading the posts between Nick, H, K, t8, seekingtruth and Heaven, I hope to jump in soon, but I'd rather wait until the issues are resolved. I felt I was in a spiritual battle just reading the posts, and it disturbed me, but didn't surprise me, we are human, and our behaviour towards each other isn't always the way it should be as Christians we should know better, our egos get the better of us sometimes. Seems I've already jumped in, God bless.Hi Debra and welcome. This will be resolved soon. Please be patient and it is wonderful to have you here. God bless sis.
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As I have tried to explain to you numerous times before Nick, it is the baptism of blood that is being talked about in Romans 6. It is the baptism of blood. This is where we come to it again, I believe it is the blood of the Lamb that washes away our sins, you evidently do not and believe it is water that washes away our sins.Which is it, the water or the blood that washes our sins away Nick?
Edited by heiscomingintheclouds on Sep. 17 2006,21:34
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Nick Hassan
Group: Admins
Posts: 9724
Joined: June 2004 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,21:37——————————————————————————–
Hi H,
Once again we have to judge whether it is best to follow the simple teachings of the bible or those you have crafted and I will always prefer the first till you learn to abide in the Word.————–
Test all things. Hold fast to what is good
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heiscomingintheclouds
Group: Members
Posts: 1246
Joined: June 2006 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,21:45——————————————————————————–
If any of you would take the time to do the study on the baptisms, you would know the truth. It was revealed to me through the unction of the Holy Spirit and then I was shown how to make even those who are on the milk of the Word understand. Yet, can anyone here say they did the study? If you didn't now can you know if it is of God or man?There is a difference between being baptized into Christ and being baptized in the name of Christ. Unfortunately, none here has found the truth in it. It is no wonder the Lord is so upset with man.
That is why he sent me. I wanted to go and witness to those on the net who did not know Jesus and who needed to be saved. The Lord told me to go to those who say they know him with their mouths, buy in their hearts they know him not.
I have found one that has sought the truth completely on the forum. There are others who are struggling between the words of men and the words of God. Most are affraid and don't know what to believe because there is so much corruption in the world. Yet, we must put our truth in God. We must keep our eyes focussed on God. We must seek the face of God. We must fast and pray and pray and fast. We must feed on God's Word daily. We must pray in the spirit. We must walk in the spirit.
Edited by heiscomingintheclouds on Sep. 17 2006,21:55
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Nick Hassan
Group: Admins
Posts: 9724
Joined: June 2004 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,21:51——————————————————————————–
Hi H,
If you got the message right then those who know the voice of the Shepherd would share your messages with Joy. Sorry but so far it is way off beam.————–
Test all things. Hold fast to what is good
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heiscomingintheclouds
Group: Members
Posts: 1246
Joined: June 2006 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,21:54——————————————————————————–
If you were not so lazy, you would do the study. But you would rather sit on your high and mighty perch and look down on me. You will receive your just reward. On this, you can be sure of. I will pray as always that the Lord bless you and forgive you.Your unwillingness to do the study is just futher proof that you are not after the things of God. For if you were after the truth, you would seek it in all things. Instead, you would rather sit in your perch and cast forth your venom, refusing to believe the doctrine of God and believing only the doctrine of Nick.
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Nick Hassan
Group: Admins
Posts: 9724
Joined: June 2004 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,21:57——————————————————————————–
Hi H,
I have read every word you posted and held fast to what was good from them. But some was of lesser quality than others so I am not walking with you on those matters.————–
Test all things. Hold fast to what is good
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heiscomingintheclouds
Group: Members
Posts: 1246
Joined: June 2006 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,22:10——————————————————————————–
So you say. If that were the case, then why did you not do the study on the baptisms? Was it because you are just lazy? You are always ready to argue against it as in our most recent talk on Romans 6 which is part of the study. What I am saying is if you don't do the study, how will you see the truth. You won't, but you will continue to argue against the truth. I have even tried to reason with you using common sense. That doesn't even work.So answer my question. What cleanses us of our sin, water or blood? What destroys the body of sin, water or blood?
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Nick Hassan
Group: Admins
Posts: 9724
Joined: June 2004 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,22:24——————————————————————————–
Hi H,
So another accusation comes from the one who does not believe in the reality of the activity of Accuser of the brethren?
No laziness is not one of my major faults but keep accusing.
You are sadly under the delusion that when you post a series of teachings they are so pure that we will grasp them with the same alacrity that we grasp the Word of God. Not so. We test them and have found them to be rather weak and illfounded.————–
Test all things. Hold fast to what is good
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heiscomingintheclouds
Group: Members
Posts: 1246
Joined: June 2006 Posted: Sep. 17 2006,22:29——————————————————————————–
I didn't think it was laziness. Because you are always on the forum spreading your doctrine. It is just that you don't want to know the truth then. For if you did want to know the truth, you would do the study.Now, Nick said I said he was lazy, but if you read the above, I recanted by saying I didn't think it was laziness. He posted I said he was lazy, which I did, and that was true in a sense, but is not my saying I didn't think it was laziness saying that in truth, I did not really believe he was lazy? So Nick said I said he was lazy. I recanted, is he right for telling others that I called him lazy even if I admitted that it could not be laziness because how much time he spends spreading his own doctrine. You be the judge. I willpost where you can read the entire conversation as I said I would at the bottom of this page.
As for not going back and reading prior and relying on memory, I believe my memory served me well. So I believe my memory to what the altercation of any conversation being changed is credible, but yet, I am a man.
Biblical Doctrine
What Is Meant by Born Again? Page 13
Quote (Debra @ Sep. 24 2006,21:54) Hi everyone,
I'm a newcomer to this forum, I spent a couple of hours yesterday just reading the posts between Nick, H, K, t8, seekingtruth and Heaven, I hope to jump in soon, but I'd rather wait until the issues are resolved. I felt I was in a spiritual battle just reading the posts, and it disturbed me, but didn't surprise me, we are human, and our behaviour towards each other isn't always the way it should be as Christians we should know better, our egos get the better of us sometimes. Seems I've already jumped in, God bless.
Welcome,
Do not be distracted by such diversions as these but please share as your heart leads.Thanks H and Nick for your welcome. I'm feeling a bit out of my depth because you both have alot of knowledge and stand firmly by what you believe Scripture is saying in reguards to Baptisim, so forgive me if I don't quote Scripture as you and others do when I offer my opinion. H, I love the story of Nicodemus, because his question was similar to my question before I was Baptised and I do think he understood once it was explained. I believe what Jesus told him was about Spiritual birth, and that the Water was Baptisimal and the Spirit and Water went hand in hand. I'd never heard your understanding of the Water Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about before, so I thought about it and I don't agree. What you said Nick I knew of and I do stand a bit closer to your understanding. Thank you both for giving me the nudge I needed to read Scripture with a truthseeking passion, and stop being luke warm. God bless you both.
Don't thank me Debra, thank he who is watching over us all. It is Almighty God who is always urging us to move closer to him. The problem is that we are our own greatest enemies. Instead of yeilding to the will of God, we try to do our own will and this always leads us away from God. He knows what is best for us and he should. After all, he created us. If we would just relax and become slaves in his arms, all our fears and all are problems would disappear. All he wants is for us to love him and trust him. That isn't so much to ask.
Anyway, I know you said that you said you stand closer to Nick's stand on John 3, but do not be deceived, because that stand is the stand that is of the doctrines of men. It has been in place for centuries and it is corrupt. It is not sound. That is why I ask all to do the 3 baptism study. The apostles did not believe the way the world believes today, for it is written and if any would do the study on the 3 baptism, they would know this to be true. So do not be betrayed sister. Nick's doctrine is the doctrine that is embraced by the world.
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