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Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2008,19:02) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,13:46) Yes, it was Adam's duty to teach Eve the commandment. Has anyone noticed that when Eve repeated the law, there was an addition to it?
God never said that they were not allowed to touch it, just not eat it.
Was Adam distorting the law or was Eve confused? Maybe it's a non important detail?
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
942767, I do not think you are correct in attributing Adam as bringing sin into the world strictly because he and Eve were one flesh through marriage. Just think for a minute about what you are saying. In the judgment WILL all people suffer from their spouses sins? Would a husband, who's wife was wicked and committed adultery, be held responsible for her sins? THAT IS NONSENSE.
I think it is a major stretch to say that Adam brought sin into the world because his wife transgressed.
Hi Jodi:
Adam's sin was that he hearkened to the voice of his wife.If I have taught my wife the word of God, and she wilfully violates it by committing adultery that is her choice. She is in transgression, but I do not have to join her in that transgression. She can either repent, and I and God will forgive her, or I can divorce her, and she will not longer be a part of my body.
When Eve offered of the fruit that she had eaten to Adam, he should have said no, Eve, God said that we should not eat. Let's go to God and let him know what you have done, and ask him to forgive you, but instead he ate also.
And yes, I am aware that Eve added a little to the commandment that God gave Adam by saying that they were not even allowed to touch the tree.
Thanks 942767 for further explaining your understanding.You said that,” Adam's sin was that he hearkened to the voice of his wife.”
Yes, this is true when Eve asked him to eat also, he didn't have to, but he went ahead and did.
However, this action was second to Eve's and thus could not be the reason why Adam is said to have brought sin into the world.
There was no hesitation in Adam, and according to scripture nothing had deceived him like Eve was deceived. The scripture says that it was because of the deception that Eve transgressed. Adam transgressed with no deception. HMM, that strikes me as VERY interesting.
If you look at my posts on Satan, you will see that deceit comes from man's heart, making man the slanderer and not a supernatural being.
As well, we see a continuous reoccurring story in the bible where men given authority fail because they become full of pride and God has to bring them to the ground.
Adam was given as ruler and overseer of the whole earth. If you read Ezekiel 28, if there is any dual meaning it would have to be of Adam for he was placed in the Garden after the making by God of precious stones.
All directions in the bible point to Adam as having to be the cause of deceit unto Eve, IMO.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,14:26) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2008,19:02) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,13:46) Yes, it was Adam's duty to teach Eve the commandment. Has anyone noticed that when Eve repeated the law, there was an addition to it?
God never said that they were not allowed to touch it, just not eat it.
Was Adam distorting the law or was Eve confused? Maybe it's a non important detail?
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
942767, I do not think you are correct in attributing Adam as bringing sin into the world strictly because he and Eve were one flesh through marriage. Just think for a minute about what you are saying. In the judgment WILL all people suffer from their spouses sins? Would a husband, who's wife was wicked and committed adultery, be held responsible for her sins? THAT IS NONSENSE.
I think it is a major stretch to say that Adam brought sin into the world because his wife transgressed.
Hi Jodi:
Adam's sin was that he hearkened to the voice of his wife.If I have taught my wife the word of God, and she wilfully violates it by committing adultery that is her choice. She is in transgression, but I do not have to join her in that transgression. She can either repent, and I and God will forgive her, or I can divorce her, and she will not longer be a part of my body.
When Eve offered of the fruit that she had eaten to Adam, he should have said no, Eve, God said that we should not eat. Let's go to God and let him know what you have done, and ask him to forgive you, but instead he ate also.
And yes, I am aware that Eve added a little to the commandment that God gave Adam by saying that they were not even allowed to touch the tree.
Thanks 942767 for further explaining your understanding.You said that,” Adam's sin was that he hearkened to the voice of his wife.”
Yes, this is true when Eve asked him to eat also, he didn't have to, but he went ahead and did.
However, this action was second to Eve's and thus could not be the reason why Adam is said to have brought sin into the world.
There was no hesitation in Adam, and according to scripture nothing had deceived him like Eve was deceived. The scripture says that it was because of the deception that Eve transgressed. Adam transgressed with no deception. HMM, that strikes me as VERY interesting.
If you look at my posts on Satan, you will see that deceit comes from man's heart, making man the slanderer and not a supernatural being.
As well, we see a continuous reoccurring story in the bible where men given authority fail because they become full of pride and God has to bring them to the ground.
Adam was given as ruler and overseer of the whole earth. If you read Ezekiel 28, if there is any dual meaning it would have to be of Adam for he was placed in the Garden after the making by God of precious stones.
All directions in the bible point to Adam as having to be the cause of deceit unto Eve, IMO.
Hi Jodi:You say:
Quote Adam was given as ruler and overseer of the whole earth. If you read Ezekiel 28, if there is any dual meaning it would have to be of Adam for he was placed in the Garden after the making by God of precious stones. Yes, I agree with you on this. This scripture is talking about Adam and the iniquity that was found in him, but that was because he harkened to the voice of his wife.
I also agree that the devil is not super-natural being cast out of heaven, but it is that evil spirit that dwells in man who has obeyed evil. I believe that I have stated on one of your posts that I agreed with what you have stated about this.
The powers and principalities that Jesus overcame and made an open show of them by obedience to God even unto death on the cross in spite of their threats and their treatment of him in putting him to death on the cross, and his ulitimate resurrection from the dead, were those men, powers and authorities, who betrayed him, accused him falsely, and crucified him.
Nick,
Why must you and others see everything from a pagan mind? I find it very sad that you are all so blind, and I pray that YHWH will open your eyes.
Luke 10:14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
The adversary falls like lightening, is symbolic just like Capernaum is exalted to heaven and brought down to hades is symbolic. The carnal mind with it’s evil spirits will be overtaken by the power of God and thus will fall from it’s position of ruling over man.
Pr 16:18Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.
Nick these scripture are speaking about humans.
Isa 28:3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, Will be trampled underfoot;
Pride is just ONE of many EVIL SPIRITS that works in men, it is a very dominant one. Supernatural beings do not influence us to be prideful, it comes from man's own heart.
Jer 48:29 “We have heard the pride of Moab (He is exceedingly proud), Of his loftiness and arrogance and pride, And of the haughtiness of his heart.”
Jer 49:16 Your fierceness has deceived you, The pride of your heart, O you who dwell in the clefts of the rock, Who hold the height of the hill! Though you make your nest as high as the eagle, I will bring you down from there,” says the Lord.
Ob 1:3The pride of your heart has deceived you, You who dwell in the clefts of the rock, Whose habitation is high; You who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to the ground?
Nick you need to stop ignoring scriptures.
942767……….have you ever through why ADAM Eat the (forbidden fruit) in the first place seeing he was not decieved, and had not yet sinned , i am talking before he ate of it. What would cause Him to. Was it not that He full well understood the consequences of the act, scripture says he was not decieved right, so he know fully what he was doing. So why did He do it then is the question. IMO he did it because He understood in order to be truly wise He need to experience both good and Evil also, so He could be more like God. That desire to be (LIKE) God was not necessarily wrong , because GOD himself said Look man has become as we are, to Know (experience) good and evil, and guess what their eye's were opened to that awareness and they began to make judgments of their conditions first. So maybe Adam by disobeying God was sacrificing Himself and Us for the ultimate GOOD . How could man ever learned and gained the understanding of Good and Evil any other way except doing it like God (experiencing it) first hand. So maybe there is a lot of things left out of this picture we really don't understand fully yet. Adam and eve before their fall didn't even know they were naked and should have a covering until after they fail, and interestingly GOD Himself Made them clothing, to cover themselves with. There was no other way Adam and Eve Could have gained the understanding to be like God than through becoming aware, through experiencing first hand Good and Evil , God could have easily prevented that from happening if He wanted to and Adam and Eve would probably still been alive , but totally unaware of good and evil and would of had (NO) wisdom at all. There was more at work in the garden then meets the eye.
As far as sin goes how can you say Adam sinned when in fact His eyes were not opened until after He ate of the fruit. Scripture says Sin (ENTERED) into the World through the first man Adam, So it wasn't the eating of the fruit that was the sin then, Sin came into play through the act of disobedience. Sin in this case was the breaking of commandment, which God gave them. It was the disobedience that was the main factor Here, not so much taking of the forbidden fruit. Through one mans (disobedience) Sin entered into the world and (ALL) died, and through the (OBEDIENCE) of one man (JESUS) life comes unto (all men). It was all about (OBEDIENCE). Remember what Samuel said to Saul , God prefers (OBEDIENCE) OVER SACRIFICE. When Eve Saw the Fruit was GOOD to make one WISE She was right , that was not the sin, the SIN was the DISOBEDIENCE in attaining it. God works all things after the council of His will, so whose to say that God didn't intend all this to happen anyway. It still serves his purpose. imo
peace to you and yours………………gene
I am learning a lot reading the scriptures and then applying those scriptures to history and today's world.
Pr 16:18Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.
All leaders in our world, all seem to have pride in common, THEIR haughty spirits God always brings down.
My sins as well as others, I see to be because of exactly what the scriptures say, we have weak flesh that we are drawn to serve. God made our flesh weak when he brought forth corruption to our world in the form of deterioration and death to all living creatures.
Man brought sin into the world because in his flesh nothing good dwells PERIOD, it takes God in our mind to make us good. Adam went to serve his own, instead of God.
Ro 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Adam brought the sin, Eve transgressed BECAUSE OF deceit. This clearly tells me that Adam sinned before Eve's transgression, creating the deceit.
I approach scriptures with an open mind and not with the traditions of men. I believe that this has helped lead me away from the lies and deceit of which the early false teachers created, of which most Christians follow today.
When I read such scriptures as those two posted above, I do indeed see an adversary in them, of which is clearly our own flesh. God made the enmity, however we make the choices to follow it, and when we do WE create evil.
HI Jodi,
So you really do believe the scriptures?
They teach you that you are correct when you filter them through your doctrines?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2008,16:21) Hi 94
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Hi Nick:How many Satan's are there, and how was Jesus seeing him fall from heaven?
Hi 94,
The servants of satan are also called by his name as he does his work through his control of them and human and animal vessels.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 01 2009,04:54) 942767……….have you ever through why ADAM Eat the (forbidden fruit) in the first place seeing he was not decieved, and had not yet sinned , i am talking before he ate of it. What would cause Him to. Was it not that He full well understood the consequences of the act, scripture says he was not decieved right, so he know fully what he was doing. So why did He do it then is the question. IMO he did it because He understood in order to be truly wise He need to experience both good and Evil also, so He could be more like God. That desire to be (LIKE) God was not necessarily wrong , because GOD himself said Look man has become as we are, to Know (experience) good and evil, and guess what their eye's were opened to that awareness and they began to make judgments of their conditions first. So maybe Adam by disobeying God was sacrificing Himself and Us for the ultimate GOOD . How could man ever learned and gained the understanding of Good and Evil any other way except doing it like God (experiencing it) first hand. So maybe there is a lot of things left out of this picture we really don't understand fully yet. Adam and eve before their fall didn't even know they were naked and should have a covering until after they fail, and interestingly GOD Himself Made them clothing, to cover themselves with. There was no other way Adam and Eve Could have gained the understanding to be like God than through becoming aware, through experiencing first hand Good and Evil , God could have easily prevented that from happening if He wanted to and Adam and Eve would probably still been alive , but totally unaware of good and evil and would of had (NO) wisdom at all. There was more at work in the garden then meets the eye. As far as sin goes how can you say Adam sinned when in fact His eyes were not opened until after He ate of the fruit. Scripture says Sin (ENTERED) into the World through the first man Adam, So it wasn't the eating of the fruit that was the sin then, Sin came into play through the act of disobedience. Sin in this case was the breaking of commandment, which God gave them. It was the disobedience that was the main factor Here, not so much taking of the forbidden fruit. Through one mans (disobedience) Sin entered into the world and (ALL) died, and through the (OBEDIENCE) of one man (JESUS) life comes unto (all men). It was all about (OBEDIENCE). Remember what Samuel said to Saul , God prefers (OBEDIENCE) OVER SACRIFICE. When Eve Saw the Fruit was GOOD to make one WISE She was right , that was not the sin, the SIN was the DISOBEDIENCE in attaining it. God works all things after the council of His will, so whose to say that God didn't intend all this to happen anyway. It still serves his purpose. imo
peace to you and yours………………gene
Hi Gene:The man became like God after eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They found out the “good” was obedience to God's commandments, and evil “was disobedience”.
God has knowledge of what is evil, but he does not do evil. He is Holy. He has given us the Ten Commandments and through these we have knowledge of sin. He does create clamity with the intent of getting man to repent through judgments or to punish.
Adam failed in his responsibility to guard what God had given him. When Eve was in transgession, he should have not obeyed her, but he should have gone to God with the problem so that both of them could have repented and have been forgiven.
As for being like God, He tells us “be ye Holy for I am Holy”. How are they like God in this way through disobedience to His commandments?
And so, according to you Adam and Eve gained wisdom through their disobedience to God's commandments? Do we also gain wisdom through disobedience? Maybe the wisdom of the world, but not the wisdom of God. The beginning of wisdom is reverence or fear of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2008,16:21) Hi 94
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Hi NicK:All of us when we are in sin are in Satan's kingdom. Whenever someone repents and is reconciled to God Satan has fallen. The disciples were casting out unclean spirits from people through the authority given them by Jesus.
The devil is that spirit of disobedience that entered into the world through Adam and Eve. The lust of the flesh, the pride of life, and lust of the eyes.
It is that same spirit that operates in the children of disobedience.
Quote Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Hi,
Matthew 12:26
If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?Luke 11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub.So what Jesus is saying here is that the dominion of Satan is very united and Satan stands no rebellion against him among his minions. If such rebellion did occur then he would soon lose that control and that dominion.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2009,11:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2008,16:21) Hi 94
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Hi NicK:All of us when we are in sin are in Satan's kingdom. Whenever someone repents and is reconciled to God Satan has fallen. The disciples were casting out unclean spirits from people through the authority given them by Jesus.
The devil is that spirit of disobedience that entered into the world through Adam and Eve. The lust of the flesh, the pride of life, and lust of the eyes.
It is that same spirit that operates in the children of disobedience.
Quote Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Hi 94,
Rather I feel that Jesus saw Satan being expelled from heaven, a vision predicting the expulsion of Satan with one third of the angels from heaven as shown in Revelation.We know from Jb 1-2 that he had met with God among the sons of God and the throne of God is in heaven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 01 2009,14:28) Hi,
Matthew 12:26
If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?Luke 11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub.So what Jesus is saying here is that the dominion of Satan is very united and Satan stands no rebellion against him among his minions. If such rebellion did occur then he would soon lose that control and that dominion.
Hi Nick:The Pharisees were accusing Jesus of casting out that spirit, the spirit of Satan, by that same spirit. If he did this, he would be fighting against himself, and so, he was saying to them that doesn't make any sense.
Nick………Evil is used against Evil And its kingdom wont stand. The knowledge of Good and Evil causes us to Hate Evil and LOVE the GOOD.
without that process we could have never learned to hate Evil. GOD knows exactly what he is doing Nick. He is using Evil to cause us to Hate it. Think about it Nick.love and peace to you…………………gene
942667………Man became like God by coming to (KNOW) Good and Evil. “Look man has become like us (Knowing) good and evil, man did not know what good or evil was until they began to experience themselves and then God said look man has become like us, knowing good and evil. The word Knowing implies more the just knowing about something, its knowing about something through emanate experience with, as when it Says Adam (KNEW) EVE, it implies a emanate relationship with some one or thing.
I do agree with you the Devil or Satan is that (SPIRIT) intellect of disobedience that has been in all men and men recieve All of it from the world as John said. For all that in the world the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life are from the world. not some mysterious unknown being going around jumping in and out of people like Nick and 99 % of all Churches believe in. They teach doctrines about demons and are under the plague of confusion, that Revelations Say's they are receiving. We are told to come our of Her, but very few do come out completely.imo
love and peace to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 01 2009,14:32) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2009,11:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2008,16:21) Hi 94
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Hi NicK:All of us when we are in sin are in Satan's kingdom. Whenever someone repents and is reconciled to God Satan has fallen. The disciples were casting out unclean spirits from people through the authority given them by Jesus.
The devil is that spirit of disobedience that entered into the world through Adam and Eve. The lust of the flesh, the pride of life, and lust of the eyes.
It is that same spirit that operates in the children of disobedience.
Quote Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Hi 94,
Rather I feel that Jesus saw Satan being expelled from heaven, a vision predicting the expulsion of Satan with one third of the angels from heaven as shown in Revelation.We know from Jb 1-2 that he had met with God among the sons of God and the throne of God is in heaven.
Hi Nick:I rather believe that Satan is going to take 1/3 of those in the church through deception that is here in this last day, the Anti-christ and the false prophet, and so his tail, drew one third of the stars of heaven.
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