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1 Timothy 2:13 for Adam was first formed, then Eve, 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came,
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned– 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
1 Corinthians 15:21 for since through man [is] the death, also through man [is] a rising again of the dead, 22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
Because of Adam sin came into the world, sin existed before the law, however sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Eve transgressed, but I believe that Adam was a sinner before her transgression.
Adam introduced sin into the world, thus he is responsible for Eve's deception that led to her transgression.
Jodi……..i agree with you Adam did introduce Sin into the world, but not evil. God did that. at the garden of Eden by the tree of good and evil. But you are right Adam did introduce Sin into the word. Remember sin is to (MISS THE MARK). While Evil is the opposite of GOOD. The mark is the calling of our GOD, in overcoming EVIL. And we all will i believe ultimately, not because of us, but because of who the Father is.
love and peace to you Jodi and yours to……………………..gene
Nick………There you go again attacking a persons Character, Jodi believes and Knows more about what is written then i believe you ever did.
Watch out or God will bring you down from the high tower you have built for yourself, and your fall will be great.
love and peace…………………..gene
GB,
Unless someone actually believes scripture as truth then debate with him about individual verses is folly
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2008,13:54) Hi Jodi,
Why would you believe what is not written?
You do believe what is written do you not?
Hi Nick,Adam brought sin into the world,
Eve however was the first to transgress from a law,
WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
Nick……..judge this rather, see to it that you lay not a stumbling block before a brother or sister, our you may soon come crashing down yourself. remember pride before a fall. Jodi is one of the most grounded in scripture then we have here, listen and think about what is being said here Nick, Come (completely) out of the MYSTERY BABYLON RELIGION< not just some Brother. That you recieve not of (HER PLAGUES) And the plague is the plague of delusion, caused by false teachings about devil and demon beings going around jumping in and out of people. Don't allow this type of worship to exist in you come to realty and see Men themselves are Evil not some supernatural being causing it all. Lust working in man is the evil that must be overcome. Not some imaginary creature of some kind. Think about what Jodi wrote Nick!.
love and peace to you…………………….gene
Hi Jodi:
You say:
Quote Eve transgressed, but I believe that Adam was a sinner before her transgression. Why do you believe this?
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,09:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2008,13:54) Hi Jodi,
Why would you believe what is not written?
You do believe what is written do you not?
Hi Nick,Adam brought sin into the world,
Eve however was the first to transgress from a law,
WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
Hi Jodi,
Which law?
Law was not given till Moses.Hi:
Before Eve was formed from Adam's rib, God had given a commandment to Adam saying:
Quote Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
It was Adam's responsibility to teach his wife what God had said, and apparently, she had been taught because when she was tempted she said:
Quote Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
He transgression then, is that she disobeyed the commandment that God had given Adam. The husband is the head of the wife, and although he had no control over her “free will”, when she came to him offering him of the fruit that she had eaten, he should have said no, no, no!!!, but instead he ate of it also. And when he was confronted by God, he tried to blame God because he said it was the fault of the woman that you gave me, as if he did not have a mind of his own to refuse to eat.
Sin entered into the world through Adam. He and his wife are one body. She was tempted of the serpent, the woman is called the weaker vessel, and is said to have been in transgression, but since Adam obeyed his wife both were guilty before God, and were cast out of the Garden of Eden into the world. It was Adam's responsibility because he tried to hide from God after they had transgressed instead of admitting his sin with a repentant heart.
Of course, we can just learn from Adam's experience, and confess our sins openly before God. He sees everything. We cannot hide from Him.
We the bride of Christ, the woman, are the weaker vessel in that all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus the husband gave his life for the life of the woman who was in transgression, and has succeeded in delivering her through his sacrifice. As Christians, the husband should be living the same sacrificial life following in the footsteps of Jesus that those who follow his example as he follows Christ may also be delivered from destruction caused by sin.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2008,11:45) 94……….it was not a “FREE WILL” it was a influenced WILL. Big difference. peace……….gene
Hi Gene:It was influenced, but they had a choice, and I have already told you that this is what I mean by “free will”. It is the freedom to choose to obey God or not when you, if you want, are influenced by his commandments or by temptation to disobey his commandments.
You say “big difference”. What is your definition of “free will”.
This is what the dictionary states:
Quote free will
n.
The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.God gave Adam a commandment, and apparently, he told Eve what God had said. She was tempted by the serpent through a lie and she obeyed the serpent. It was her choice to obey or not. She sinned and then Adam sinned by heeding the voice of his wife. God said to him:
Quote Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
Did Adam and Eve have the freedom to choose who they would obey or not?
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2008,14:50) Hi Jodi: You say:
Quote Eve transgressed, but I believe that Adam was a sinner before her transgression. Why do you believe this?
Simple, because the scriptures say that Adam brought sin into the world, NOT Eve.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2008,14:57) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,09:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2008,13:54) Hi Jodi,
Why would you believe what is not written?
You do believe what is written do you not?
Hi Nick,Adam brought sin into the world,
Eve however was the first to transgress from a law,
WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
Hi Jodi,
Which law?
Law was not given till Moses.
God gave a commandment to Adam and Eve, NOT to eat from the fruit. Eve is said to transgress, that MEANS Eve broke a law, that is what transgression stands for.1Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
I am just using common sense and putting two and two together-
Adam was NOT deceived, Eve was and that made her fall into transgression, however it is said that Adam brought sin into the world.
What does that tell us?
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,13:18) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2008,14:50) Hi Jodi: You say:
Quote Eve transgressed, but I believe that Adam was a sinner before her transgression. Why do you believe this?
Simple, because the scriptures say that Adam brought sin into the world, NOT Eve.
Hi Jodi:Adam was the head of his wife and God had given him the commandment and he was responsible for the sin, because he harkened to the voice of his wife. And husband and wife are one body, and therefore, it is said through one man, the first Adam sin entered into the world.
Adam had not sinned until he hearkened to the voice of his wife.
Yes, it was Adam's duty to teach Eve the commandment.
Has anyone noticed that when Eve repeated the law, there was an addition to it?
God never said that they were not allowed to touch it, just not eat it.
Was Adam distorting the law or was Eve confused? Maybe it's a non important detail?
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
942767, I do not think you are correct in attributing Adam as bringing sin into the world strictly because he and Eve were one flesh through marriage. Just think for a minute about what you are saying. In the judgment WILL all people suffer from their spouses sins? Would a husband, who's wife was wicked and committed adultery, be held responsible for her sins? THAT IS NONSENSE.
I think it is a major stretch to say that Adam brought sin into the world because his wife transgressed.
Hi 942767,
I know of NO scripture that even hints at the idea that married couples are responsible for each other's sins, and are held accountable for each other's sins.
God made man in His image, He made them male and female in His image. Besides physical differences there are character differences in men and woman as well. When you bring an upright male and and upright female together–they become ONE and reflect a clearer image of God.
They are NOT 'ONE' meaning that everything that one does is scene as being done by the other. That is NONSENSE. If I go out and get waisted drunk, does God view my husband as drunk too. If I steel, is my husband a thief also?
942767………The definition of free will is a Will having (NO) influence or any kind , either past experience or Godly influencing either, a person who would have a will like that, can actually make a true “(free) Will” decision . Science as well a physiologist have proved there is NO such thing as a true “FREE WILL”. All wills are influenced Wills. Everyone will do what is the strongest influence in them. If i were to put three choices for you to pick something from you will always chose the one that is influencing you the most. Why, because you have already had that choice in you mind. WE chose from what already exist in our minds and therefore is not free. Nothing “free” about it.
If you reread you definition you gave it is also saying that. Socrates discovered that in 425 BC and it has never been disproved. All thing are a result of cause and effect, from the smallest atom to the whole universe , every decision is the effect a cause.peace to you………………gene
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 31 2008,13:46) Yes, it was Adam's duty to teach Eve the commandment. Has anyone noticed that when Eve repeated the law, there was an addition to it?
God never said that they were not allowed to touch it, just not eat it.
Was Adam distorting the law or was Eve confused? Maybe it's a non important detail?
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
942767, I do not think you are correct in attributing Adam as bringing sin into the world strictly because he and Eve were one flesh through marriage. Just think for a minute about what you are saying. In the judgment WILL all people suffer from their spouses sins? Would a husband, who's wife was wicked and committed adultery, be held responsible for her sins? THAT IS NONSENSE.
I think it is a major stretch to say that Adam brought sin into the world because his wife transgressed.
Hi Jodi:
Adam's sin was that he hearkened to the voice of his wife.If I have taught my wife the word of God, and she wilfully violates it by committing adultery that is her choice. She is in transgression, but I do not have to join her in that transgression. She can either repent, and I and God will forgive her, or I can divorce her, and she will not longer be a part of my body.
When Eve offered of the fruit that she had eaten to Adam, he should have said no, Eve, God said that we should not eat. Let's go to God and let him know what you have done, and ask him to forgive you, but instead he ate also.
And yes, I am aware that Eve added a little to the commandment that God gave Adam by saying that they were not even allowed to touch the tree.
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