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To ALL:
God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
Hi thethinker:KJV
Quote Exd 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. “Thousands of them that love me…” not thousands of generations.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi TT,
The descendants of Abraham are of faith not human lineage.[Jn8.39]
So the waiting place is his bosom.Also,
Quote 1Ch 16:14 He is the LORD our God; His judgments are in all the earth. 1Ch 16:15 Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,
1Ch 16:16 {The covenant} which He made with Abraham, And His oath to Isaac.
1Ch 16:17 He also confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
1Ch 16:18 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan, As the portion of your inheritance.”
1ch 16:15 is referring to verse 16:18. Canaan is the land of idolators which God will give to the seed of Abraham. This is symbolic of that promised land for God's children which they will inherit for an eternity.
Quote Hbr 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hbr 11:9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as [in] a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;
Hbr 11:10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.
Hbr 11:11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child [fn] when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised.
Hbr 11:12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born [as many] as the stars of the sky in multitude–innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
Hbr 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, [fn] embraced [them] and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hbr 11:14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland.
Hbr 11:15 And truly if they had called to mind that [country] from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Hbr 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly [country]. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Love in Christ,
MartyJack
Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 07 2009,16:42) It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”
Jack, your argument is circular, because you know as well as I do that the Hebrew word for “for ever” (owlam) does not always mean “eternal”.Now you want to make a case for the “natural” being eternal when we know that according to the scriptures the Heavens and the earth is growing old like a garment. Heb 1:10-12
You have argued so vehemently for the “abolition” of the natural laws and now you are talking as if man will dwell in this earth as it is forever!
You are trying to make the case that “futurist” are saying that God is doing away with the human race, and that is just untrue.
Futurists believe that humanity will be changed, and become like Jesus who has immortality and a body that will never die again.
The Lord made many promises with the children of Israel that were “for ever” including many of the Laws and statutes.
In fact he told Abraham that his “natural seed' will exceed the stars of heaven, yet you argue that there is no more natural Israel. What gives?
We know that many of the laws which he said were for ever ceased. The Hebrew understanding of the word (owlam) is quite different from ours…
Owlam can mean forever, but doesn’t always mean forever. Its meaning is conditional, depending on the nature of that which is being described. Source
This is not the New earth for it is still under the curse with germs and bacteria and disease and everything else bad that came as a result of the fall and the curse of sin, like the Lions still killing lambs and the poisness snakes still killing children.
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 07 2009,13:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
Quote 1Chronicles 16:12-17 Remember his marvellous works that he hath done, his wonders, and the judgments of his mouth; O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He [is] the LORD our God; his judgments [are] in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations; [Even of the covenant] which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant, A generation averages about 20 years to 35 years.
A Covenant is an agreement between two or more parties (nations) to perform some action. A covenant, in its most general sense, is a solemn promise to engage in or refrain from a specified action.
The Hebrew word berith, covenant,* occurs over 280 times in the Old Testament. (The English word covenant means “a coming together.”) Covenants can include treaties, alliances, agreements, compacts, pledges, mutual agreements, promises, and undertakings on behalf of another.
Covenants in the Bible can be agreements between two individuals, between a king or leader and his people; or between God and individuals, or God and groups of individuals. Covenants can be conditional or unconditional. Conditional covenants are forfeited if one party violates or defaults on his part of the agreement. Unconditional covenants are arrangements in which the default of one party does not negate the ultimate fulfillment and blessing of the covenant.
Was the Abrahamic covenant conditional or unconditional?
Examples Of Covenants Between God And Individuals:
1. With Aaron:“All the holy offerings which the people of Israel present to the LORD I give to you, and to your sons and daughters with you, as a perpetual due; it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD for you and for your offspring with you.” And the LORD said to Aaron, “You shall have no inheritance in their land, neither shall you have any portion among them; I am your portion and your inheritance among the people of Israel. “To the Levites I have given every tithe in Israel for an inheritance, in return for their service which they serve, their service in the tent of meeting. And henceforth the people of Israel shall not come near the tent of meeting, lest they bear sin and die. But the Levites shall do the service of the tent of meeting, and they shall bear their iniquity; it shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations; and among the people of Israel they shall have no inheritance.” (Numbers 18:19-23)
2. With Isaac:
“Now there was a famine in the land, besides the former famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Gerar, to Abimelech king of the Philistines. And the LORD appeared to him, and said, 'Do not go down to Egypt; dwell in the land of which I shall tell you. Sojourn in this land, and
I will be with you, and will bless you; for to you and to your descendants I will give all these lands, and I will fulfill the oath which I swore to Abraham your father. I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give to your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall bless themselves: because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.' So Isaac dwelt in Gerar.” (Genesis 26:1-6)3. With Yeshua The Messiah:
“Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him, he will bring forth justice to the nations. He will not cry or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street; a bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not fail or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for his law. Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread forth the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it: “I am the LORD, I have called you in righteousness, I have taken you by the hand and kept you; I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. I am the LORD, that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them.” (Isaiah 42:1-6)
“Listen to me, O coastlands, and hearken, you peoples from afar. The LORD called me [Messiah] from the womb, from the body of my mother he named my name. He made my mouth like a sharp sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me a polished arrow, in his quiver he hid me away. And he said to me, 'You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.' But I said, 'I have labored in vain, I have spent my strength for nothing and vanity; yet surely my right is with the LORD, and my recompense with my God.' And now the LORD says, who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him, and that Israel might be gathered to him, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD, and my God has become my strength-he says: 'It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved of Israel; I will give you as a light to the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.'
“Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel and his Holy One, to one deeply despised, abhorred by the nations, the servant of rulers [Messiah]: “Kings shall see and arise; princes, and they shall prostrate themselves; because of the LORD, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you. Thus says the LORD: “In a time of favor I have answered you, in a day of salvation I have helped you; I have kept you and given you as a covenant to the people, to establish the land, to apportion the desolate heritages; saying to the prisoners, `Come forth,' to those who are in darkness, `Appear.' They shall feed along the ways, on all bare heights shall be their pasture; they shall not hunger or thirst, neither scorching wind nor sun shall smite them, for he who has pity on them will lead them, and by springs of water will guide them. And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be raised up.” (Isaiah 49:1-11)
4. King Josiah's Covenant With The Lord:
“Then the king [Josiah] sent, and all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem were gathered to him. And the king went up to the house of the LORD, and with him all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests and the prophets, all the people, both small and great; and he read in their hearing all the words of the book of the covenant which had been found in the house of the LORD. And the king stood by the pillar and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes, with all his heart and all his soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book; and all the people joined in the covenant.
“And the king commanded Hilkiah, the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the threshold, to bring out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels made for Baal, for Asherah, and for all the host of heaven; he burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron, and carried their ashes to Bethel. And he deposed the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places at the cities of Judah and round about Jerusalem; those also who burned incense to Baal, to the sun, and the moon, and the constellations, and all the host of the heavens. And he brought out the Asherah from the house of the LORD, outside Jerusalem, to the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and beat it to dust and cast the dust of it upon the graves of the common people.
“And he broke down the houses of the male cult prostitutes which were in the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the Asherah. And he brought all the priests out of the cities of Judah, and defiled the high places where the priests had burned incense, from Geba to Beersheba; and he broke down the high places of the gates that were at the entrance of the gate of Joshua the governor of the city, which were on one's left at the gate of the city. However, the priests of the high places did not come up to the altar of the LORD in Jerusalem, but they ate unleavened bread among their brethren.
“And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, that no one might burn his son or his daughter as an offering to Molech. And he removed the horses that the kings of Judah had dedicated to the sun, at the entrance to the house of the LORD, by the chamber of Nathan-melech the chamberlain, which was in the precincts; and he burned the chariots of the sun with fire. And the altars on the roof of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, he pulled down and broke in pieces, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron. And the king defiled the high places that were east of Jerusalem, to the south of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had built for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Sidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, and for Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And he broke in pieces the pillars, and cut down the Asherim, and filled their places with the bones of men.
“Moreover the altar at Bethel, the high place erected by Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, that altar with the high place he pulled down and he broke in pieces its stones, crushing them to dust; also he burned the Asherah. And as Josiah turned, he saw the tombs there on the mount; and he sent and took the bones out of the tombs, and burned them upon the altar, and defiled it, according to the word of the LORD which the man of God proclaimed, who had predicted these things. Then he said, “What is yonder monument that I see?” And the men of the city told him, “It is the tomb of the man of God who came from Judah and predicted these things which you have done against the altar at Bethel.” And he said, “Let him be; let no man move his bones.” So they let his bones alone, with the bones of the prophet who came out of Samaria. And all the shrines also of the high places that were in the cities of Samaria, which kings of Israel had made, provoking the LORD to anger, Josiah removed; he did to them according to all that he had done at Bethel. And he slew all the priests of the high places who were there, upon the altars, and burned the bones of men upon them.
“Then he returned to Jerusalem. And the
king commanded all the people, “Keep the passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in this book of the covenant.” For no such passover had been kept since the days of the judges who judged Israel, or during all the days of the kings of Israel or of the kings of Judah; but in the eighteenth year of King Josiah this passover was kept to the LORD in Jerusalem. Moreover Josiah put away the mediums and the wizards and the teraphim and the idols and all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might establish the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD. Before him there was no king like him, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; nor did any like him arise after him.” (2 Kings 23:1-25)Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
Keith:
Quote Jack, your argument is circular, because you know as well as I do that the Hebrew word for “for ever” (owlam) does not always mean “eternal”
Keith,
Of course “olam” does not always mean “forever.” So we must go with context. Right? You failed to comment on King David's use of “olam” with the expression “a thousand generations.”Forget “olam” for now. Let's talk about “a thousand generations.” In Exodus 20:6 God said that He shows mercy to “thousands of generations” of them who love Him. This is repeated in Deuteronomy 7:9
“Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;
Whether we understand “olam” as “eternal” or not makes no difference. It means “thousands of generations” IN THE LEAST. Abraham has only begun to realize this. Come on!
WJ:
Quote You have argued so vehemently for the “abolition” of the natural laws and now you are talking as if man will dwell in this earth as it is forever!
When did ever I argue for the abolition of natural laws? Provide the post where I said this.WJ:
Quote Owlam can mean forever, but doesn’t always mean forever. Its meaning is conditional, depending on the nature of that which is being described.
Agreed. You don't need to prove this to me. To King David it means “a thousand generations.” Don't you think King David understood the Abrahamic covenant better than you futurists?The promise is stated in the plural “thousands of generations” and repeated in Deuteronomy “a thousand generations” (Exodus 20:6; Deut. 7:9). In both scriptures it says that God will show mercy to these generations. This means that men are getting saved for a thousand generations [or thousands of generations].
There can be no generations without procreation!
WJ:
Quote Futurists believe that humanity will be changed, and become like Jesus who has immortality and a body that will never die again.
The futurists unanimously teach that God will destroy humanity as a race, that is, “a group of individuals within a biological species able to breed together” (Webster's). The Futurists are wrong about this. Humanity will always continue as a breeding species. Isaiah is clear that mankind still breeds in the new earth, that is, THIS earth covenantally renewed in Christ. God will show mercy to “thousands of generations.”We are approximately 200 generations from Abraham. So we have not even scratched the surface brother. If Christ came back today to set up His supposed earthly kingdom for 1,000 years, only 25-33 generations more would pass. According to the futurists there is no procreation in the new earth which comes after the supposed millennium.
So at the end of the millennium less than 250 generations from Abraham have passed and there are no more generations to be saved. And if there are no more descendants to be saved then Abraham is cut way short of the promise. But God cannot break His covenant. God said that He would show mercy to “thousands of generations.” This necessarily infers that mankind will continue to be a breeding species. And if mankind ceases to be a breeding species at the end of the suposed millennium, then the second coming of Christ to set up this supposed millennium must be a long, long, long way off. For God promised that He would show mercy to thousands of generations and the millennium can be only 33 generations tops.
Therefore, there is procreation in the new earth just as Isaiah explicitly said (65:23). Sinners dwell with the righteous on the new earth (65:20).
So forget “olam.” Let's talk about the original covenant which says that God will show mercy to “thousands of generations.” There can be no generations unless there is procreating. It's that simple! This earth has been covenantally renewed in Christ and it is here to stay. And God will save a people for Himself from all generations for “thousands of generations.”
The Futurists are wrong!
thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 07 2009,19:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
'Elohim has never broken a covenant, man is the only one guilty of breaking covenants.Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
bd,
I deny that God made a covenant of salvation with Ishmael.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 09 2009,04:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
bd,
I deny that God made a covenant of salvation with Ishmael.thinker
What was the covenant of the circumcision? What was its purpose? Tell me if you know?Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
Hi BD:Once again there is a conflict from what the bible states and what you are giving us from the Quran.
God speaking to Abraham states, “In Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac is symbolic of the promised Messiah through whom we are called to reconciled to God by the gospel. This gospel is preached to every creature including the desendants of Ishmael.
There is no covenant with Ishmael mentioned in the bible, but God did promise to make him a great nation.
Quote Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Nov. 09 2009,14:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
Hi BD:Once again there is a conflict from what the bible states and what you are giving us from the Quran.
God speaking to Abraham states, “In Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac is symbolic of the promised Messiah through whom we are called to reconciled to God by the gospel. This gospel is preached to every creature including the desendants of Ishmael.
There is no covenant with Ishmael mentioned in the bible, but God did promise to make him a great nation.
Quote Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Love in Christ,
Marty
A Promise is a Covenant and Ismael was part of the same Covenant that Abraham was under.Abraham was not even under the same Covenant as Isaac so you are incorrect.
Also you simply keep misunderstanding Covenants
With Noah
Genesis 6:18 (King James Version)18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Genesis 9:8-10 (King James Version)
8And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
That would include everyone living.
With Abraham
Genesis 17
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.2A
nd I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.Genesis 17
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:10-12This included both Isaac and Ishmael and their descendents
With Moses
29.Exodus 24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:6-8 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)30.Exodus 24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exodus 24:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:15-17Deuteronomy 5
1And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
With Phinehas
Numbers 25:11-13 (King James Version)11Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
with King Jehoiada
And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.
2 Chronicles 34:30-32With Ezra
Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
Ezra 10:2-4TO EVERYONE
Psalm 25:10-15 (King James Version)
10All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
15Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.
Please study what a covenant is and understand that covenants have been and are always being provided by God, You have even said you have entered into a covenant with God regarding being a Bishop.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 09 2009,17:41) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 09 2009,14:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
Hi BD:Once again there is a conflict from what the bible states and what you are giving us from the Quran.
God speaking to Abraham states, “In Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac is symbolic of the promised Messiah through whom we are called to reconciled to God by the gospel. This gospel is preached to every creature including the desendants of Ishmael.
There is no covenant with Ishmael mentioned in the bible, but God did promise to make him a great nation.
Quote Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Love in Christ,
Marty
A Promise is a Covenant and Ismael was part of the same Covenant that Abraham was under.Abraham was not even under the same Covenant as Isaac so you are incorrect.
Also you simply keep misunderstanding Covenants
With Noah
Genesis 6:18 (King James Version)18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Genesis 9:8-10 (King James Version)
8And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
That would include everyone living.
With Abraham
Genesis 17
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Genesis 17
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:10-12This included both Isaac and Ishmael and their descendents
With Moses
29.Exodus 24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:6-8 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)30.Exodus 24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exodus 24:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:15-17Deuteronomy 5
1And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
With Phinehas
Numbers 25:11-13 (King James Version)11Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
with King Jehoiada
And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.
2 Chronicles 34:30-32With Ezra
Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
Ezra 10:2-4TO EVERYONE
Psalm 25:10-15 (King James Version)
10All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
15Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.
Please study what a covenant is and understand that covenants have been and are always being provided by God, You have even said you have entered into a covenant with God regarding being a Bishop.
Hi BD:And so, what is the covenant that God made with Ishmael according to the bible?
Love in Christ,
MartyHey Guys,
You have gotten off track. The point of this thread is to show that the futurist's silly notion that God will destroy this earth is false. King David said that God would show mercy to a thousand generations of Abraham's descendants. According to Matthew's geneaology Jesus was only 42 generations from Abraham. We are about 50 generations from Jesus.So do the math. There is a very, very, long way to go before Abraham will realize this promise. If Jesus would come back tomorrow and set up the supposed “millennium” Abraham could have only 25-33 generations of descendants be born during that time. So at the end of the millennium less than 150 generations from Abraham have passed and according to the futurists humanity is no longer a breeding species. So Abraham gets the shaft if the futurists are correct. Abraham will not see “a thousand generations” of believing progeny if it all happens according the the futurist fairy tale.
Of course the futurists are not correct. They do not have any of the biblical chronology or facts straight. Futurism is all just a fairy tale. They are wrong about everything. King David said that God would show mercy to a thousand generations of Abraham's descendants. He said that this means “forever” (Psalm 105:8-10). Exodus 20:6 confirms King David's understanding of the covenant in that it says that God would show mercy to THOUSANDS (plural) of generations. This is repeated in Deuteronomy 7:9.
So tens of thousands of years of believing descendants for Abraham must come into existence before this covenant may be fulfilled. According to Isaiah 65-66 mankind still procreates in the new earth, that is, this earth covenantally renewed. The futurists apply Peter out of its old covenant context and ignore Isaiah's prophecy. They ignore John also for his visions indicate that people are still invited to come and drink of the water of salvation in the new earth (22:17).
Mankind will always be on this earth and will never cease as a breeding species. Abraham will see thousands of generations of believing descendants just as God promised! Paul said that God will be glorified in the church throughout ALL GENERATIONS FOREVER AND EVER (Ephesians 3:21).
DO NOT BELIEVE THE FUTURIST RUBBISH!
thinker
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2009,10:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 09 2009,17:41) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 09 2009,14:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
Hi BD:Once again there is a conflict from what the bible states and what you are giving us from the Quran.
God speaking to Abraham states, “In Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac is symbolic of the promised Messiah through whom we are called to reconciled to God by the gospel. This gospel is preached to every creature including the desendants of Ishmael.
There is no covenant with Ishmael mentioned in the bible, but God did promise to make him a great nation.
Quote Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Love in Christ,
Marty
A Promise is a Covenant and Ismael was part of the same Covenant that Abraham was under.Abraham was not even under the same Covenant as Isaac so you are incorrect.
Also you simply keep misunderstanding Covenants
With Noah
Genesis 6:18 (King James Version)18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Genesis 9:8-10 (King Ja
mes Version)8And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
That would include everyone living.
With Abraham
Genesis 17
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Genesis 17
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:10-12This included both Isaac and Ishmael and their descendents
With Moses
29.Exodus 24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:6-8 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)30.Exodus 24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exodus 24:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:15-17Deuteronomy 5
1And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
With Phinehas
Numbers 25:11-13 (King James Version)11Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
with King Jehoiada
And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.
2 Chronicles 34:30-32With Ezra
Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
Ezra 10:2-4TO EVERYONE
Psalm 25:10-15 (King James Version)
10All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
15Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.
Please study what a covenant is and understand that covenants have been and are always being provided by God, You have even said you have entered into a covenant with God regarding being a Bishop.
Hi BD:And so, what is the covenant that God made with Ishmael according to the bible?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Do you not recall what God promised Abraham what he would do for Ishmael?Also do you not recall Ishmael being under the covenant of circumcision as well which includes all those in that covenant being God's People.
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Ishmael and his descendents are not of the gentiles they are from the same semitic line or Abrahams descendents, are they not?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,10:45) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2009,10:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 09 2009,17:41) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 09 2009,14:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 08 2009,14:29) Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 08 2009,08:42) To ALL: God promised Abraham that he would show mercy to his descendants for “a thousand generations.”
Quote 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,According to Exodus 20:6 God will show mercy to “thousands” (plural) of generations. King David took this to mean that God's covenant is ETERNAL.
In Isaiah's prophecy of the new earth the covenant keeps going. It says that the blessed of the Lord will bring forth children, not for trouble but for salvation:
Quote 17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
It says that they “bring forth children” and have “descendants” and “offspring.” It is irrefutable that salvation will continue forever because God's people will bring “bring forth children” in the new earth which is forever. The “blessed of the Lord” in the new earth will have descendants who will also become the “blessed of the Lord.”God will not and cannot destroy humanity because He is under oath to show mercy to “thousands of generations” of Abraham's descendants. We are less than 200 generations from Abraham. So he has just begun to realize the number of his believing progeny which is yet to come.
But the futurists try to rob Abraham of his ongoing seed by saying that God could destroy humanity tomorrow. If we were to be literal with the expression “a thousand generations” then the promise would fall short of about 800 generations if God destroyed humanity tomorrow. It is not literal of course. King David said that “a thousand generations” means FOREVER and ETERNAL. This is solified by Exodus 20:6 which says that God will show mercy to thousands (plural) of generations.
Don't believe the futurists. God has no intentions of destroying humanity and neither can He because He is under the oath He made to Abraham. The futurists have been shoveling the “stuff” for two thousand years now saying that this earth and the human race will come to an end.
Thankfully people are starting to wake up and preterism has now become the fastest growing movement in christendom. God will save a people for Himself in all generations forever and ever. There is no limit to the number of Abraham's seed. God said that Abraham's believing progeny will be in number “as the sand on the seashore”. Praise Him!
Not only do the futurists try to rob Abraham of many descendants but they also make God out to be a covenant breaker.
TO WJ: This is the only post I have time to do this weekend. I'll be back for sure.
thinker
You believe that God broke his covenant with Ishmael so do you now recant that position?Ishmael also was part of the covenant with Abraham and that covenant was with God so Ishmael having to leave with his mother did not and could not break the covenant with God and Circumcision was that covenant.
Hi BD:Once again there is a conflict from what the bible states and what you are giving us from the Quran.
God speaking to Abraham states, “In Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac is symbolic of the promised Messiah through whom we are called to reconciled to God by the gospel. This gospel is preached to every creature including the desendants of Ishmael.
There is no covenant with Ishmael mentioned in the bible, but God did promise to make him a great nation.
Quote Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year
Love in Christ,
Marty
A Promise is a Covenant and Ismael was part of the same Covenant that Abraham was under.Abraham was not even under the same Covenant as Isaac so you are incorrect.
Also you simply keep misunderstanding Covenants
With No
ah
Genesis 6:18 (King James Version)18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Genesis 9:8-10 (King James Version)
8And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
That would include everyone living.
With Abraham
Genesis 17
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Genesis 17
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:10-12This included both Isaac and Ishmael and their descendents
With Moses
29.Exodus 24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:6-8 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)30.Exodus 24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exodus 24:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 24 (Whole Chapter)Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:15-17Deuteronomy 5
1And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
With Phinehas
Numbers 25:11-13 (King James Version)11Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
with King Jehoiada
And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.
2 Chronicles 34:30-32With Ezra
Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
Ezra 10:2-4TO EVERYONE
Psalm 25:10-15 (King James Version)
10All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
15Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.
Please study what a covenant is and understand that covenants have been and are always being provided by God, You have even said you have entered into a covenant with God regarding being a Bishop.
Hi BD:And so, what is the covenant that God made with Ishmael according to the bible?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Do you not recall what God promised Abraham what he would do for Ishmael?Also do you not recall Ishmael being under the covenant of circumcision as well which includes all those in that covenant being God's People.
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Ishmael and his descendents are not of the gentiles they are from the same semitic line or Abrahams descendents, are they not?
Hi BD:thethinker wants for us to get back on track regarding the issue of this thread, and so if we can discuss this issue regarding Ishmael in an appropriate thread that would be good.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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