Abomination of Desolation

[942767]

Hi Bro. Georg:

Studying Daniel 11, it appears to me that the king of the North is Syria and the king of the south is Egypt.

God Bless

[Irene]

Hi 942767

True, Syria is north of Egypt, and they had many skirmishes between each other, but Macedon is by far the most northern kingdom. When Rome invaded Macedon in B.C.149, Rome took on the biblical title, King of the north.

[942767]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 19 2008,13:07)

Hi 942767 True, Syria is north of Egypt, and they had many skirmishes between each other, but Macedon is by far the most northern kingdom. When Rome invaded Macedon in B.C.149, Rome took on the biblical title, King of the north.

Hi Bro. Georg:

I'll have to go with my understanding that Syria is the king of the North, and that the Anti-Christ will come from Syria.  I believe that Antiochus Epiphanes desecration of the Temple is an antitype of the abomination of desolation which will be a future event just prior to the Lord coming for the church.

Of course, I am praying every morning asking God to correct me if I am doing anything that is not His will or teaching anything that is not His Word.

And so, I am not saying that your are wrong.  I am saying that I have a different understanding.

God Bless

[Irene]

Hi 942767

Dan. 11:29 “At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter”.

“HE”, is the king of the north. The appointed time was in 1789 when Napoleon invaded Egypt.
The former was in B.C.30 when Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt, with Mark Anthony, stood up against Rome. When their army was defeated, they both committed suicide.
The latter was in A.D.269, Zenobia, Queen of Egypt and a decadent of Cleopatra, rebelled against Rome, and was defeated as well.
Napoleons invasion was unsuccessful because of the ships of Chittim, Cyprus.

Blessings to you

Georg

[Samuel]

I think that Europe will rise to power again. What role they play I have not really studied and prayed about yet.

However, we do know that these things will happen.
It is written.

[theodorej]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 19 2008,13:07)

Hi 942767 True, Syria is north of Egypt, and they had many skirmishes between each other, but Macedon is by far the most northern kingdom. When Rome invaded Macedon in B.C.149, Rome took on the biblical title, King of the north.

Greetings Georg…..I would think that Europe is north of the equator also….And in addition the term anti christ pertains to numerous individuals and philosophies with no special emphasis on an individual. Bible prohecy seems to lean toward an individual and indeed an idividual will stand out in the end times…for now anti christ would have to be any teaching that would be counter to the teachings of Christ Jesus…

[Samuel]

I've since studied a little more about this.

It is possible that the Catholic Church is not going to have anything to do with this.

It is possible that this is going to be the False Prophet…that signs that seven year peace treaty…and in the temple puts himself above everything that is GOD.

[theodorej]

Quote (Samuel @ Sep. 05 2008,13:03)

I've since studied a little more about this. It is possible that the Catholic Church is not going to have anything to do with this. It is possible that this is going to be the False Prophet…that signs that seven year peace treaty…and in the temple puts himself above everything that is GOD.

Greetings Samual…..You may be right in your asessment,but let us keep in mind that the Vatican has a genuine interest in Jerusalem,this has been demonstrated by the numerous crusades over the centuries….A very significant event took place on 3/18/08 that may set the stage for the presence of the Abomination of Desolation,this event was Germanys' apology to Israel for the Holocaust…I feel this event is significant because it places Europe at odds with the Arab world…Germanys' pledge of support for Israel in oposition to Hamas gives Europe the opportunity to increase the number of peacekeepers in the region…This peace pack will be broken and Israel will be betrayed and so will begin the tribulation….Foreign troops will surround the city…..Let us also not forget that the Pope is a proponent Euro centric reasoning and he is of German heritage…..This is of course just my reasoning and humble opinion….

[Tiffany]

Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 05 2008,21:16)

Quote (Samuel @ Sep. 05 2008,13:03) I've since studied a little more about this. It is possible that the Catholic Church is not going to have anything to do with this. It is possible that this is going to be the False Prophet…that signs that seven year peace treaty…and in the temple puts himself above everything that is GOD. Greetings Samual…..You may be right in your asessment,but let us keep in mind that the Vatican has a genuine interest in Jerusalem,this has been demonstrated by the numerous crusades over the centuries….A very significant event took place on 3/18/08 that may set the stage for the presence of the Abomination of Desolation,this event was Germanys' apology to Israel for the Holocaust…I feel this event is significant because it places Europe at odds with the Arab world…Germanys' pledge of support for Israel in oposition to Hamas gives Europe the opportunity to increase the number of peacekeepers in the region…This peace pack will be broken and Israel will be betrayed and so will begin the tribulation….Foreign troops will surround the city…..Let us also not forget that the Pope is a proponent Euro centric reasoning and he is of German heritage…..This is of course just my reasoning and humble opinion….

Hi! This is quit interesting, because what you are saying, Mr.
Armstrong believed too. I have no idea, since one has to
understand and know Ancient History and World
History.
Peace and Love Irene

[Samuel]

I'm not saying anything written in stone…

Because I don't know for sure…I'm just saying it is possible.  

I feel that no one has a complete understanding of the things that are soon to befall us yet.  
GOD may rise up someone to have this understanding.  But it sure won't be someone that boldly stands up and starts proclaiming dates that don't come true.

Most of the people GOD has used in times past from reading the Bible…they did not think they were even capable of doing GODS will…they tried to make excuses and went and hid.

Someone that is just running around barking all sorts of prophesies is going to be really questionable.

I'm just saying if you read the book of Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation…and there are various other scriptures in the Bible that coincide together with these…that draw a pretty clear picture of what is going to happen.  Although it would be hard to figure out any dates…its almost clear according to what is going on in the world today…and reading this book…what is very likely to happen.   Is all I'm saying.  

These are not my prophesies…these are the prophesies that are written in the Bible by actual prophets.

I would like to add that no one…well a lot of Bible scholars don't depict the US in any of this…while some Bible study'ers do.

Again, I'm not 100% sure what America's role…but don't think for one minute that all of this is going to go on in the world with America not having some part of this.
They are the worlds super power at this time.  So what ever goes on they are either going to be a part of it coming to pass or they will be crushed by another power that rises and will fall…if not both.

America is not innocent in all of this.  This nation has become an harlot.   It started out a Nation under GOD…now it seems to be John Wayne's War wagon…that's putting it nicely.

I love my country…it has afforded me a lot of freedom…but this nation is not without sin.   I feel that very shortly the freedom that we all have might possibly be taken away.   It has already been taken away to some extent…in the name of the War on Terrorism.   This is the same “Clause” that Hitler used to accomplish his goals in his nation.  You know the saying History does repeat itself.

Before you go saying “Oh nothing like that is ever going to happen in America …the good ole' US of A.   Let no man deceive you.

All kingdoms shall fall and pass away…the heaven and the earth shall pass away….but the word of GOD will remain.

So we know that the only thing that is going to remain the same and unchanged, today and tomorrow…is the word of GOD.

That is what we do know…we should spend more time looking to it rather than other men of this world for the answers. Cause they don't have them. But GODS word does.

[Tiffany]

Hi Samuel

My answer is late in coming, I don't know how I missed your reply.
First of all, there will be no seven year treaty signed, neither by Antichrist, nor by the false prophet.
Look at Dan. 9:27, that is were the idea of a seven year tribulation comes from.
That week is the seventieth week. There is absolutely no indication given in any scripture that this week would play itself out 2000 years later.
It was Jesus who confirmed the covenant, the new covenant, with many, all over Judea for one week. In the middle of the week, or three and a half years, he was cut off. He died; his death caused the old covenant sacrifices and oblations to cease.
The rest of that verse is in fact talking about Antichrist; it was the Catholic Church that through her mass sacrifice destroyed the true meaning of Christ's sacrifice.

Georg

[meerkat]

Georg,

I agree with the first part of  Dan 9:27 being about Messiah and confirming the new covenant, how do you get the latter part of that verse to then be the antichrist? And what is he doing & when?

Quote

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

Promise I'll read and not make irrelevant comments  

[NickHassan]

Hi mk,
The book of Revelation to me is mainly showing the 7 day week of tribulation, divided into two parts of 3 and a half weeks [time times and half a time, 3 and a half days etc] in different ways and from different perspectives.

[meerkat]

Thanks Nick

[Tiffany]

Meerkat

Look at verse 26, and all the information it contains.

Dan. 9:26 “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolation are determined.”

It begins with emphasizing the 62 weeks; they are the same weeks mentioned in the previous verse; saying, that after a total of 69 weeks, in the 70st, or last of the 70 weeks, v. 24; Christ would be cut off, would die. “But not for himself”, Christ did not deserve death, he committed no sin.
Now the verse jumps to 70 AD; “and the people of the prince that shall come”, the Roman soldiers under the Roman general Titus (prince), “shall destroy the city” (Jerusalem) “and the sanctuary” (the temple). “and the end thereof shall be with a flood”. This is referring to Antichrist false doctrine. Water is symbolic for truth, Jesus offered the woman on the well “living water”, (John 4:14). Water that comes as a flood destroys, Antichrists doctrines are the flood, they destroyed the true gospel; and that is not going to change until Christ begins to reign. “and unto the end of the war desolation are determined”, we will have no peace on this earth, the simple reason is; this is Satan's world, he is the god of this world and his ambition is to destroy us all, war unto the end.
So, you see, you have to look at scripture carefully, it doesn't always follow one thought.
Verse 27 too has much mixed up information in it.
“And he (Jesus) shall confirm (preach) the covenant (new covenant)with many (all over Judea) for one week” (the 70tiest). “and in the midst of the week” (three and a half years) “he shall cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease” (his death did away with the old covenant, law of Moses). Now we come to Antichrist, “and for the overspreading of abominations” ( Mass sacrifice) “he” (Antichrist) “shall make it” (Christ sacrifice) “desolate” (destroyed the true meaning of it) “even until the consummation” (until Christ takes over) “and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate” (what God has determined shall happen to those that destroy, will happen).

I have a study on Antichrist, it's quite a long one, I just want to prepare you for it. It is to be a help for you and anyone else that is interested. You will have to read it often, since this is most likely new information for you. Don't let with what you don't agree discourage you from reading all of it, it will fall in place.
Have a great day, Georg

PS, I will post “Antichrist” in your Antichrist thread.

[NickHassan]

Hi mk,
The time is also expressed in total days ? 1276 or so

[meerkat]

So in each of the verses – part 1 Messiah and strictly part of the 70 weeks, part 2 antichrist, not part of the 70 weeks, later fulfillment. 70AD and beyond ……..times of the gentiles.

– I had also noticed that in verse 26 the end shall be with a flood has the same thought as in

Quote

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Dan 9:26 a)And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
Dan 9:27 a)And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

Dan 9:26 b)and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 b)and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

When you look at the second part of the verses they continue the thought from the first part, and also not talk about weeks there, whereas in both first parts are specific mention it relates to the weeks.

Thanks Georg!!!

Just thinking here:- I have been wondering if Revelation has a double fulfillment??? – I have read some preterist thinking and some of it makes sense especially in regards to Matt Olivet discourse, and some of that seems to relate to 70AD judgement – I have read a bit of historicist thinking as well and some of that makes sense as well.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Jesus warned those who resided in Judea to move out asap.
Isaiah 59:19
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Jeremiah 47:2
Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl.
Amos 9:5
And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,05:05)

Hi mk, The time is also expressed in total days ? 1276 or so

I believe that days for years in prophecy are relevant – I lean toward a historicist approach where Revelation was shortly to take place and continue, we can not ignore when it says

Quote

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

Shortly means – soon
come to pass means – cause to be, to become, continue etc

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): – arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

I disagree with the preterist approach when they insist Revelation is all 70AD because of the soon, as the “come to pass” phrase to me inplies continuance after a starting.

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,05:20)

Hi MK, Jesus warned those who resided in Judea to move out asap. Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. Jeremiah 47:2 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl. Amos 9:5 And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

To me those all sound like 70AD warnings of judgement

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