Abomination of Desolation

[Samuel]

Actually, I feel like this is going to more specifically have something to do with the pope.

Since the Pope is actually a complete disgrace to Jesus…they say that Jesus is not enough…you still need a high priest…in their mind. Well?

Is that not what they are saying by still having a “Pope”. What is a pope? In their view it is the direct representative of GOD on earth…This is a theft of what Jesus…Jesus is all you need…you don't need a POPE for heaven sakes….this is a complete disgrace to Jesus.

In my opinion its an Abomination of Desolation.

So…this begs one question?

What is the holy place that he is going to be in?
Israel?

[NickHassan]

Hi Samuel,
Why elevate an irrelevant man?
The whore shall be destroyed.

[Irene]

Hello 942767

Dan. 11:31 is the strong arm of the Catholic Church, who polluted the sanctuary (the temple of God, the saints) with the popes doctrine. They took away Christs ongoing, never have to be repeated sacrifice, and replaced it with the abomination, the mass sacrifice.
It was Napoleon who put up his tabernacle (dwelling place), his tent, between the seas.
In the glorious holy mountain. Mountain means kingdom, the Israelites were God's chosen people, he had given this land to them, they were his holy kingdom, and even though the Israelites were not present at that time, this was still God's glorious holy land.
Dan. 12:1 is only one of three scriptures that point to the same time the Israelites were to experience; compare with Jer.30:7, and Mat. 24:21.
This, their worst time was during Hitlers reign, during which over 6 million Jews were killed. And Jesus said, unless those days were shortened, no flesh (Jew) would be saved alive. Had Hitler won the war, no Jew would be alive today. But Jesus said those days would be shortened, Mat. 24:22, Germany lost the war. You will notice that Jer. and Dan. prophesied their deliverance too. It should be obvious, there can only be one worst time.
Dan. 12:2 speaks of the second resurrection which will occur during the millennium. There will be those that will not repent even after being resurrected, they will die the second death, with no possibility of being resurrected again.
Dam. 12:3 is a reference to those that teach the true word of God.

Blessings, Georg

[942767]

Hi Brother Georg:

And so, is this event:

Quote

Dan 11:31   And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

The same as the following event?

Quote

Mat 24:15   When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
You say
“Dan. 12:2 speaks of the second resurrection which will occur during the millennium.”

Dan12.2
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Where is the bit about it occuring DURING the Millenium?

[Irene]

Hi 942767

Yes, that is what Jesus was referring too.

Hi Nick

1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”.
v. 23 “But every man in his own order;…”

By the time Christ will rule in his kingdom, all the saints that will rule with him will have already been resurrected. All the rest in their graves will come up as Christ will call them.
All in their order means, not all at once.

Georg

[942767]

Hi Brother Georg:

You stated:

Quote

Dan. 12:1 is only one of three scriptures that point to the same time the Israelites were to experience; compare with Jer.30:7, and Mat. 24:21. This, their worst time was during Hitlers reign, during which over 6 million Jews were killed. And Jesus said, unless those days were shortened, no flesh (Jew) would be saved alive. Had Hitler won the war, no Jew would be alive today. But Jesus said those days would be shortened, Mat. 24:22, Germany lost the war. You will notice that Jer. and Dan. prophesied their deliverance too. It should be obvious, there can only be one worst time.

And so, if you are saying that by Matthew 24:15 is the same event just prior to the Holocaust, what about the following verses:

Quote

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Are you saying that these verses refer to the Holocaust?

What about the folloiwing verses of scripture?

Quote

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

These verses seem to indicate that Jesus will come for the church immediately after the onset of the tribulation period that begun when the abomination of desolation occurred.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 18 2008,11:46)

Hi 942767 Yes, that is what Jesus was referring too. Hi Nick 1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”. v. 23 “But every man in his own order;…” By the time Christ will rule in his kingdom, all the saints that will rule with him will have already been resurrected. All the rest in their graves will come up as Christ will call them. All in their order means, not all at once. Georg

Hi georg,

You missed part of the verse

1Cor 15
” 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. “

So Christ is the firstfruits and that is accomplished.

Then those who are in Christ when he comes at the first resurrection.

All men are not in Christ so the second resurrection is of them and they are not shown in these verses.

We are not allowed to add our own thoughts to scripture.

[Irene]

Hi Nick

I will answer you first. No I did not forget the rest of that verse, what I gave you was enough to make my point, but here is another scripture for you.

John 5:28 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
v. 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

This is not speaking of the first resurrection, because there is no more judgment for the saints.
This is the resurrection for all that remained in their graves after the first resurrection had taken place.
There are no good sinners or bad sinners, we are all sinners, and we all die in Adam, and we all shall live again in Christ, because he died for all. There are however those that have done such evil deeds that they either cannot or will not repent; for those it will have been a resurrection of damnation.
If all does not mean all, how can you be sure which group you will be in?

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
The first resurrection
Jn5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

The second resurrection.
27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You are right that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
But what you quote speaks of salvation by WORKS.

We are not saved by works if we hope for salvation in Christ Jesus. So this is the salvation of the remnant by mercy shown in Mt 25, those who did not expect to be saved as we should.

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
You say
“This is not speaking of the first resurrection, because there is no more judgment for the saints. “
But scripture says
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

This is surely the judgement of the talents in Mt25

[Irene]

Hi 942767

Mat. 24:15 is speaking of Antichrist, who through his false gospel, would destroy the truth about Christs sacrifice. I would not say it was just prior to the holocaust, since this abomination has been practiced since the third Century.
And yes, Mat. 24:21,22 are referring to the holocaust.
Mat. 24:29 is a prophecy yet to be fulfilled, and when you see the events taken place in Israel, you should know it is very near. It will be the third and final tribulation for the Israelites, A.D. 70 being the first.
Mat. 24:30 is in fact the beginning of the millennium.
Mat. 24:31 has already happened, Christ is not coming for his church, he is bringing her with him.
The tribulation is for the Israelites, the rest of the world will feel God's wrath.

Georg

[Irene]

Nick

Salvation is by faith for those who live now, because we can't see what we believe in.
In the millennium it will be by obedience, because there will be no guessing what or whom to believe.
God would not have his son die for all of us, and then punish those that simply could not understand  the message.
The first resurrection is for those that gave their life, endured till the end, their reward is a spirit body.
The reward for all the rest who obey the gospel, is everlasting life.
Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
Logic alone is little help is grasping scripture.

God would not do this or do that has no place

[Not3in1]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 18 2008,16:18)

God would not have his son die for all of us, and then punish those that simply could not understand the message.

Georg,

Thanks for this. I feel like this so much of the time (not able to understand the message) it is comforting to believe that God will not hold it against me and other's.

Love,
Mandy

[Irene]

Nick

Holding on to the doctrines of man will not give you understanding, you have to allow the Holy Spirit to come into your heart, only He can show you the truth.
Insisting on being right, is no guarantee for salvation.

Georg

[Irene]

Hi Mandy, how are you?

Logic and common sense does have a place in understanding, other wise we would be just as blind followers. It would not be logical for scripture to say, Christ died for all, and then to insist he want give them a chance, that don't make no sense either.

Bless you Mandy

[942767]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 18 2008,16:06)

Hi 942767 Mat. 24:15 is speaking of Antichrist, who through his false gospel, would destroy the truth about Christs sacrifice. I would not say it was just prior to the holocaust, since this abomination has been practiced since the third Century. And yes, Mat. 24:21,22 are referring to the holocaust. Mat. 24:29 is a prophecy yet to be fulfilled, and when you see the events taken place in Israel, you should know it is very near. It will be the third and final tribulation for the Israelites, A.D. 70 being the first. Mat. 24:30 is in fact the beginning of the millennium. Mat. 24:31 has already happened, Christ is not coming for his church, he is bringing her with him. The tribulation is for the Israelites, the rest of the world will feel God's wrath. Georg

OK Brother Georg:

Thanks for sharing your understanding of this event with me.  

We disagree so let's pray that God will show us what is the truth since either you or I must be wrong in our interpretation of these scriptures.

God Bless

[Irene]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2008,09:10)

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 18 2008,16:06) Hi 942767 Mat. 24:15 is speaking of Antichrist, who through his false gospel, would destroy the truth about Christs sacrifice. I would not say it was just prior to the holocaust, since this abomination has been practiced since the third Century. And yes, Mat. 24:21,22 are referring to the holocaust. Mat. 24:29 is a prophecy yet to be fulfilled, and when you see the events taken place in Israel, you should know it is very near. It will be the third and final tribulation for the Israelites, A.D. 70 being the first. Mat. 24:30 is in fact the beginning of the millennium. Mat. 24:31 has already happened, Christ is not coming for his church, he is bringing her with him. The tribulation is for the Israelites, the rest of the world will feel God's wrath. Georg OK Brother Georg: Thanks for sharing your understanding of this event with me.   We disagree so let's pray that God will show us what is the truth since either you or I must be wrong in our interpretation of these scriptures. God Bless

I like that idea, Love and Peace Irene
don't tell Georg, HHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaa

[NickHassan]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 19 2008,01:21)

Nick Holding on to the doctrines of man will not give you understanding, you have to allow the Holy Spirit to come into your heart, only He can show you the truth. Insisting on being right, is no guarantee for salvation. Georg

Hi Georg,
Is it me who claimed to be infallible?
But I do ask that opinions be called for what they are.

[Author]

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