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PIERRE,
Questions lead to answers; do you not want to know the correct answers?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:39) PIERRE, Questions lead to answers; do you not want to know the correct answers?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjbut I know the answer I have read his quote
Hi Edj
If I can, please let me help explain.
Quote In Daniel Chapter 2 Media and Persia are represented together as arms of silver.
So why do you believe in Daniel chapter 7 they are represented separately?
Because Chapter 2 is explaining the kingdoms that will follow, and chapter 7 is describing the actual kings themselves.Quote And need I remind you, saying the lion is not Babylon is not an answer.
He's showing you Ed, that the vision in chapter 7 is during the babylon empire. But not Neb, his grandson is ruling. The four beasts are to follow, after babylon, so this prophesy is future for them, not past.
so makes no sense for the lion to be babylon.We know that the Mede's conquered Babylon next according to the scriptures and according to history. This king Darius of the Medes is described as a lion who was given a man's heart because he realised and said this;
Daniel 6:26 I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and steadfast forever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.
Quote In Daniel Chapter 7: the bear lifts itself up on one side,
which (I believe) represent Persia being stronger than Media.
Do you have 'an alternate explanation'? because one is needed.
The bear has three ribs in it's mouth, because he is the fourth king of Persia. This is describing the the actual King of Persia, not the kingdom of Persia;Daniel 11:2 And now will I show thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet THREE KINGS in Persia; and the FOURTH shall be far richer than they all: and by HIS strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
“BY HIS STRENGTH” the fourth king. Not the first king of Persia, or the second, etc, but the fourth king of Persia. This is why he has three ribs in his mouth – as those 3 kings were before him.
So we know that medes and persia are combined as one, but it's this fourth king of persia who will stir up greece. And we know that Greece conquered Medo/Persia, so the next 3rd beast to follow must be Grecia, the leopard.Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:35) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,12:34) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:30) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,12:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,18:55) Hi Pierre, you and Devolution are both using faulty logic here. That is like saying one is lying because they are not telling the truth.
You can ask David the JW about this, because he is a practitioner in this art.
I ask him questions and he does not tell me the truth, but he is careful not to lie.
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer? …I hope you can see the difference now.So I again ask: why do YOU believe the lion in Daniels dream was Media?
God bless
Ed J
edjI am tired of always repeat what is already said in the quotes
so read the quotes
PIERREThere was no answer to my question in your quote,
so repeating it would be useless, would it not?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjDEVO's quote the long one
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer?
edjhe quoted you Daniel chap and the words ,are you blind
??Quote (journey42 @ June 18 2012,12:55) Hi Edj If I can, please let me help explain.
Quote In Daniel Chapter 2 Media and Persia are represented together as arms of silver.
So why do you believe in Daniel chapter 7 they are represented separately?
Because Chapter 2 is explaining the kingdoms that will follow, and chapter 7 is describing the actual kings themselves.
Hi Georgie, that is merely your opinion.No-where does it say Babylon was excluded from Daniels dream? …if it does please show it; OK?
The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble:
anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail. Behold,
he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan” (Jer 50:43-44)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ June 18 2012,12:55) Hi Edj We know that the Mede's conquered Babylon next according to the scriptures and according to history.
Hi Georgie,It was the both Media and Persia together that conquered Babylon.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ June 18 2012,12:55) Hi Edj Quote In Daniel Chapter 7: the bear lifts itself up on one side,
which (I believe) represent Persia being stronger than Media.
Do you have 'an alternate explanation'? because one is needed.
The bear has three ribs in it's mouth, because he is the fourth king of Persia. This is describing the the actual King of Persia, not the kingdom of Persia;Daniel 11:2 And now will I show thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet THREE KINGS in Persia; and the FOURTH shall be far richer than they all: and by HIS strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
“BY HIS STRENGTH” the fourth king. Not the first king of Persia, or the second, etc, but the fourth king of Persia. This is why he has three ribs in his mouth – as those 3 kings were before him.
So we know that medes and persia are combined as one, but it's this fourth king of persia who will stir up greece. And we know that Greece conquered Medo/Persia, so the next 3rd beast to follow must be Grecia, the leopard.
Hi Georgie,Interesting your take on the three ribs.
But you still haven't offered an explanation
as to why the bear was lifted up on one side.Nor why you believe the fourth Persian king stirred Greece to attack?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,19:57) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:35) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,12:34) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:30) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,12:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,18:55) Hi Pierre, you and Devolution are both using faulty logic here. That is like saying one is lying because they are not telling the truth.
You can ask David the JW about this, because he is a practitioner in this art.
I ask him questions and he does not tell me the truth, but he is careful not to lie.
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer? …I hope you can see the difference now.So I again ask: why do YOU believe the lion in Daniels dream was Media?
God bless
Ed J
edjI am tired of always repeat what is already said in the quotes
so read the quotes
PIERREThere was no answer to my question in your quote,
so repeating it would be useless, would it not?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjDEVO's quote the long one
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer?
edjhe quoted you Daniel chap and the words ,are you blind
??
edDevolution
Group: Members
Posts: 215
Joined: Dec. 2011
Posted: June 17 2012,18:15
Hi Ed,Lets look at Daniel… IF you are serious, you WILL read all of this.
Daniel 2.
v1 – King Neb has a dream.
v17-19 God reveals Nebs dream to Daniel.
v26-45 The dream interpreted.
v44 All earthly kingdoms are to be broken in pieces and consumed.Theme of dream:
Successive earthly kingdoms to come leading up to the last earthly kingdom before Christs 2nd coming and setting up of His own kingdom which will destroy all other earthly kingdomsMessage of dream:
1- God has set the number of kingdoms yet to come.
2- Mans SELF rule over the earth will eventually end.Daniel chapters 5 & 6
Message:
Babylon is now GONE as an empire….BABYLON IS ENDED…NO MORE…YESTERDAYS NEWS!
Daniel is NOW in the MEDIA-PERSIAN age.
BABYLON EMPIRE IS OVER…FINISHED…DONE…NO MORE…CEASED TO BE…LOOK…SEE…LISTEN:
Why, below, is scripture NOW speaking of Daniels PAST vision WHEN he was in BABYLON? He is in the Median reign now!
WHY is scripture backtracking here?
WHY is this presented in this way?
Could it be that Daniel is now confirming who the first beast is?
NOW that it has HAPPENED…that the 1st beast (Lion/Media) has risen?
Is Daniel/scripture backtracking to confirm the accomplishment of that PAST vision from Babylon?
There are TWO MORE examples to come in Daniel Ed, which do the SAME THING…backtrack to the previous vision with ADDED information!!
We have to “watch” before we can “see”, “listen” before we can “hear”…become as a little child…turn those editing filters off! Let Gods truth flow undefiled…Daniel 7
When Daniel was in Babylon, he was shown this vision that scripture is only now presenting to us.
The vision is being revealed to the reader AFTER Babylon is ended as an empire during Darius' reign….WHY?
That is, the vision is being revealed to us in Daniels present when it was a vision concerning the future all along…FOUR BEASTS SHALL ARISE…SHALL…SHALL…SHALL…
In the first person SHALL means NOT YET COME/FUTURE…and Daniel was in an empire nearing its end already by the time he got the vision.
HOW can the first beast who SHALL come be the same beast that was already there when the vision was given as a FUTURE EVENT?
It can not.
Also note that scripture is only now revealing that past vision to us concerning a future event in a time where a new empire has just taken center stage!
Coincidence?We both agree that chapter 7 is speaking of kings/kingdoms.
And scripture only revealed this vision AFTER Babylon fell.
This vision of kings/kingdoms to come..Now take note of chapter 8…
It is a CONTINUING THEME!
Kings/kingdoms to come!
And ONLY NOW is scripture showing us what Daniel ALREADY KNEW BEFORE BABYLON FELL!!Catch that Ed?
DANIEL ALREADY KNEW WHO WAS GOING TO TAKE BABYLONS PLACE BEFORE BABYLON FELL…MEDIAN KINGS!!!!!!!!AND WHO WAS GOING TO TAKE MEDIAS PLACE….PERSIAN KINGS….AND WHO WAS GOING TO TAKE THEIR PLACE…GRECIAN KINGS!!!!
God told Daniel this in the 3rd year of the reign of Belshazzar (8:1)!!!!!..IN Babylon before it happened.
NOW chapter 11
Notice v1?
IN THE FIRST YEAR of Darius the MEDE
This vision of kings/kingdoms continues for Daniel.
Only NOW, the vision is being CONFIRMED during the MEDIAN reign and NOT the Babylonian reign as before!!
And the vision concerns PERSIANS!!
Catch that Ed…
During Babylon a vision of beasts to come…
Then during Media rule, Daniel was shown a vision of ANOTHER beast to come…a PERSIAN…Daniel was given ADDED information…SINGULAR information…precise information.
And that Persian beast was followed by a GRECIAN beast!!
Ed, this is exactly what is happening in chapter 8 which itself follows chapter 7 in its theme..just with ADDED information…
Notice that ed?Notice Daniels first vision was an overall picture?
THEN notice that each following vision, AFTER Daniel complained he could not understand in chapter 7, that each following vision was given with ADDED INFORMATION!!
ADDED information keeps being relayed to Daniel as both CONFIRMATION and TEACHING before the event happens.Anyway, AGAIN:
WHEN Babylon was ruling, Daniel was shown the kings to come…
NOW, when that FIRST KING TO COME HAD COME…
ONLY NOW IS DANIEL BEING SHOWN THE DETAIL CONCERNING THE OTHER KING TO COME….Daniel was already shown the vision, but now he is being shown more clearly.And what does God concentrate on?
A PERSIAN KING….
Notice God is making clear the distinction….MEDIAN KING(s)….THEN….THEN…THEN…THEN…PERSIAN KING(s)!!!!
GOD IS separating them (Medes & Persians) for a prophetic reason Ed. A
nd if God separates them as TWO, WHY do men join them as ONE?
I will listen to God and not men.
Media is the 1st beast
Persia the 2nd
Grecia the 3rdNotice this PERSIAN king only rises AFTER THREE other PERSIAN KINGS must come before him? NOT Median kings…AGAIN: God is SEPARATING them and pointing out a PERSIAN!!! NOT Media-Persian…but PERSIAN.
And did you notice something Ed:
THREE…THREE…THREE…THREE…THREE
This sound familiar:
Daniel 7:5
And behold, ANOTHER BEAST a SECOND, like unto a Bear, and it raised itself up on one side…..READY ED….
AND IT HAD THREE ribs in the mouth of it….
IT….IT….IT….A PERSIAN….PERSIAN….PERSIAN KING….NOT A MEDIAN KING….NOT A MEDIA-PERSIAN KING….BUT A PERSIAN KING….IT…IT…IT had THREE RIBS in its mouth.THAT Persian king did.
PERSIAN….PERSIAN…PERSIAN…
Again: NOT a MEDIA PERSIAN BEAR being spoken of…BUT a PERSIAN BEAR!!!
And look 11:2….God is mentioning GRECIA AGAIN….
So chapter 11 links to chapter 8 which links to chapter 7 which links to chapter 2…
And all three chapters concern kings to come and kingdoms.
COINCIDENCE?So for you to say that my premise is wrong to start with…did you even consider these points?
I am coming from a place of understanding Ed…
NOT guess work.
NOT just accepting that Babylon was the first beast just because everybody else says so…
EVERY CHRISTIAN denomination believes that!
Truth in numbers?
If truth in numbers were true, then just as millions and millions of Jews say….which then would be true too….that Jesus can not be the Messiah!!
But we know otherwise.Cheers.
Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:35) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,12:34) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,19:30) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,12:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,18:55) Hi Pierre, you and Devolution are both using faulty logic here. That is like saying one is lying because they are not telling the truth.
You can ask David the JW about this, because he is a practitioner in this art.
I ask him questions and he does not tell me the truth, but he is careful not to lie.
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer? …I hope you can see the difference now.So I again ask: why do YOU believe the lion in Daniels dream was Media?
God bless
Ed J
edjI am tired of always repeat what is already said in the quotes
so read the quotes
PIERREThere was no answer to my question in your quote,
so repeating it would be useless, would it not?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjDEVO's quote the long one
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer?
PIERRE,I seen that post, why are you quoting it again?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThe question I have asked: is why do you believe it is Medea?
That quote only contains why Devolution doesn't believe Babylon represents the lion. …so it is not an answer to my question.
Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,13:15) Hi Georgie, that is merely your opinion. No-where does it say Babylon was excluded from Daniels dream? …if it does please show it; OK?
The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble:
anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail. Behold,
he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan” (Jer 50:43-44)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Here is evidence to suggest the lion does indeed represent Babylon in Daniels dream of Chapter 7.Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,11:55) Hi Pierre, you and Devolution are both using faulty logic here. That is like saying one is lying because they are not telling the truth.
You can ask David the JW about this, because he is a practitioner in this art.
I ask him questions and he does not tell me the truth, but he is careful not to lie.
Saying it is not Babylon is not an answer? …I hope you can see the difference now.So I again ask: why do YOU believe the lion in Daniels dream was Media?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
And this post explains your flawed logic.Hi Georgie,
Why do you think it would be important for the vision to represent
how many Persian Kings there were, but not how many Media kings there were?
Was it not the Media kings that issued both the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,21:17) The question I have asked: is why do you believe it is Medea? That quote only contains why Devolution doesn't believe Babylon represents the lion. …so it is not an answer to my question.
Daniel 7When Daniel was in Babylon, he was shown this vision that scripture is only now presenting to us.
The vision is being revealed to the reader AFTER Babylon is ended as an empire during Darius' reign….WHY?
That is, the vision is being revealed to us in Daniels present when it was a vision concerning the future all along…FOUR BEASTS SHALL ARISE…SHALL…SHALL…SHALL…
In the first person SHALL means NOT YET COME/FUTURE…and Daniel was in an empire nearing its end already by the time he got the vision.
HOW can the first beast who SHALL come be the same beast that was already there when the vision was given as a FUTURE EVENT?
It can not.Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,21:17) The question I have asked: is why do you believe it is Medea? That quote only contains why Devolution doesn't believe Babylon represents the lion. …so it is not an answer to my question.
Daniel 7When Daniel was in Babylon, he was shown this vision that scripture is only now presenting to us.
The vision is being revealed to the reader AFTER Babylon is ended as an empire during Darius' reign….WHY?
That is, the vision is being revealed to us in Daniels present when it was a vision concerning the future all along…FOUR BEASTS SHALL ARISE…SHALL…SHALL…SHALL…
In the first person SHALL means NOT YET COME/FUTURE…and Daniel was in an empire nearing its end already by the time he got the vision.
HOW can the first beast who SHALL come be the same beast that was already there when the vision was given as a FUTURE EVENT?
It can not.
That is merely opinion.Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,21:42) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,21:17) The question I have asked: is why do you believe it is Medea? That quote only contains why Devolution doesn't believe Babylon represents the lion. …so it is not an answer to my question.
Daniel 7When Daniel was in Babylon, he was shown this vision that scripture is only now presenting to us.
The vision is being revealed to the reader AFTER Babylon is ended as an empire during Darius' reign….WHY?
That is, the vision is being revealed to us in Daniels present when it was a vision concerning the future all along…FOUR BEASTS SHALL ARISE…SHALL…SHALL…SHALL…
In the first person SHALL means NOT YET COME/FUTURE…and Daniel was in an empire nearing its end already by the time he got the vision.
HOW can the first beast who SHALL come be the same beast that was already there when the vision was given as a FUTURE EVENT?
It can not.
That is merely opinion.
it is never less written in the scriptures right,do you believe scriptures
Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,14:44) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,21:42) Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2012,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,21:17) The question I have asked: is why do you believe it is Medea? That quote only contains why Devolution doesn't believe Babylon represents the lion. …so it is not an answer to my question.
Daniel 7When Daniel was in Babylon, he was shown this vision that scripture is only now presenting to us.
The vision is being revealed to the reader AFTER Babylon is ended as an empire during Darius' reign….WHY?
That is, the vision is being revealed to us in Daniels present when it was a vision concerning the future all along…FOUR BEASTS SHALL ARISE…SHALL…SHALL…SHALL…
In the first person SHALL means NOT YET COME/FUTURE…and Daniel was in an empire nearing its end already by the time he got the vision.
HOW can the first beast who SHALL come be the same beast that was already there when the vision was given as a FUTURE EVENT?
It can not.
That is merely opinion. it is never less written in the scriptures right,do you believe scriptures
Devolution's opinions are not written in Scripture, you are mistaken.Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,13:15) Quote (journey42 @ June 18 2012,12:55) Hi Edj
Because Chapter 2 is explaining the kingdoms that will follow, and chapter 7 is describing the actual kings themselves.
Hi Georgie, that is merely your opinion.No-where does it say Babylon was excluded from Daniels dream? …if it does please show it; OK?
The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble:
anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail. Behold,
he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan” (Jer 50:43-44)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org[/quote]
Hi EdQuote quote]In Daniel Chapter 2 Media and Persia are represented together as arms of silver.
Yes they are. You will also notice that the image is from Babylon to the end kingdom. Still not much detail. We learn who those kingdoms are in Ch8 do we not?. This is God's revealing, the way he's laid it out, not me. A little bit here a little bit there.Quote So why do you believe in Daniel chapter 7 they are represented separately?
Some time went by before this vision was given to Daniel. You can see Neb is gone, and his grandson is ruling. The Medes were about to take over. What's so confusing about this? Now we have the description of the actual kings to come. If the leopard is Greece and you know this, and the leopard (alexander) is the third beast, then doesn't something tell you that the first two are the kings of Medo & Persia?
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