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Yes brother, he was before all things. God begot the Son in the beginning.
Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 19 2006,13:14) Yes brother, he was before all things. God begot the Son in the beginning. Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
But what about this scripture that say He was the first creation of the Father.
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:Wouldn't it be fair to say tha He was the first creation then became the first begotten through Mary?
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 19 2006,12:30) Oxy, you say “As long as God has been able to speak there has been the Word of God”.
But Jesus prayed that He would become as He was before the world. If Jesus is just words then He was a thought in the Father's mind first. So Jesus wanted to go back to being a thought in the Father's mind?No Jesus was more than the words the Father thought of. But WHAT?
Kenrch, we must be careful not to see the Word of God as being in any way similar to the words we speak.Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You are right, Jesus was more than just words, He was and is THE Word of God. As the Word of God He is the Promise of God and the fulfillment of that Promise. He is great in glory and majesty. He is awesome and powerful. Far far more than “just words”.
I can't seem to get a straight answer. Was The Word Created Or Begotten. Was Jesus A Spirit Being? What Was Jesus Before He Was The Word? What Did Jesus Want To Go Back To Being Before The World Began?
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2006,02:39) I can't seem to get a straight answer. Was The Word Created Or Begotten. Was Jesus A Spirit Being? What Was Jesus Before He Was The Word? What Did Jesus Want To Go Back To Being Before The World Began? Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Hi KI'm not going to give you a straight answer either lol. Sorry. The Word was in the beginning with God. What “form” He had I do not know, but my thoughts are that He was “begotten” when He was born as baby Jesus. Prior to that I don't believe He was the Son of God, but was a “part” of God. The creative part if you like.
Hi kenrch,
you say
“Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:”
means Jesus was the first created.
But does it?
Could it mean that creation started through him?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2006,07:30) Hi kenrch,
you say
“Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:”
means Jesus was the first created.
But does it?
Could it mean that creation started through him?
That makes sense to me Nick.Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 20 2006,12:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2006,07:30) Hi kenrch,
you say
“Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:”
means Jesus was the first created.
But does it?
Could it mean that creation started through him?
That makes sense to me Nick.
I believe Jesus was the first created spirit being through (of course) everything was created.When John 1:1 says “in the beginning” is it speaking of the beginning of the earth and all that is in it OR the beginning of creation?
In the beginning was the Word (God said let there be light) and the Word was with God. Jesus was the spokes person of God just as He was on earth.
Well another for the back burner LOL
But you never know it may be in the word but an oversight on our part. For now we look through a foggy glass but when Jesus comes and the New Kingdom is in place we will know!
Jesus is the Word, Son of God and by the Word, Son of God and through the Word,Son of God all of creation was created by the will of the Father through the unction of the Holy Spirit.
Didn't know quite where to post this so here is as good as anywhere I suppose. I came upon this on the www whilst doing some unrelated study. It is an interesting link as to the subject of bible versions and their validity. As there has been discussion of such in the past I thought this would be a good addition to the forum.
Hi Malcolm,
Certainly many are passionately convinced that only the KJV is the Word of God and conspiracy theories abound about all other versions.Dear Malcolm,
The article you posted has truth mixed with untruths. Although most of what is in the article is factual, there are some things that are not. For instance the part that deals with the trinity.
For one thing, the King James bible debunks the trinity doctrine and for another thing, the verse of 1 John 5 was not something that was added as a trinitarian plot as many try to suggest to support the trinity, because this writting was written long before the trinity concept was concieved. It may have given influence to those who came up with the false doctrine on the trinity, but it is not proof that the trinity doctrine is sound.
dear heiscomingintheclouds
I agree with you, I had not read all of the article but thought it might be of interest to this forum.
Thank you for posting it Malcolm. The part on the symbols is powerful and many should pay attention to this sort of thing.
Dear Malcolm, have you did the study on the baptisms? I have pleaded that all do this. It is a must. It is going to draw the line in the sand in the faith. Those who stand on the Gospel of Christ need to study and know the baptisms because it reveals how the baptisms were done in the early church. Then once one understands the baptisms, one must understand about how the baptism were corrupted and the damage this caused to the faith. This can be found on the son of perdition thread. This study is powerful and it is God sent. It is such a blessing. I thank God for this wonderful message. He is so wonderful.
Please, I ask all to study this. It is the baptisms that were changed that created a church that had a form of godliness, but denied the power of the Holy Spirit. They changed how it was set up by the apostles as given them through the unction of the Holy Spirit to the doctrines of men.
The water baptism was always done in the name of Jesus.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit was always done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.They changed it. The took the water baptism and changed the words from in the name of Jesus to in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. This was WRONG.
By doing this, they removed the gifts of the spirit from out of the church. That is why it was frowned upon for any who said they had these gifts. What happened is when they changed the order and the words, they still tried to practice the gifts of the spirit including speaking in tongues. This was not honored by God because they corrupted the order in which he set down. And because of this, it opened the door to seducing spirits. Thus, things as speaking in tongues and the gifts of the spirit were said to have stopped with the apostles. This is a lie.
HI H,
You say
“The baptism of the Holy Spirit was always done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.”Please prove this statement from scripture.
You teach from your doctrinal base so well shown in your website. With all that declared doctrine already established it should not surprise us that you seem to have come here to seek followers and to publish your views and have no apparent interest in learning.
But others here have come to learn from scripture and not human doctrines so are able to discern when your teachings fly in the face of scripture as is often the case.
If you don't know this, then you have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit Nick. I thought you said you did. You are always claiming to be led of the spirit. What spirit are we talking about. If you haven't had this baptism, you haven't had the baptism of the Holy Spirit unless God baptized you in the Holy Spirit. Yet, if that were the case, you would know that we are to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. What baptism is this that Jesus commands? It is not the baptism of water, for the baptism of water is to be done in the name of Jesus.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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