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Dear Debra,
Sister, I had to be sure. There are those who try to say it is the water that washes away our sins. There are those who say that one must have water baptism to be saved. Praise God, I believe you are saved. For you do know that it is the blood that cleanse us.
There are those here that beleive that you are not saved until you have the water baptism. Of these beware. For theirs is the doctrines of men.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Oct. 01 2006,03:05) Dear Debra, Sister, I had to be sure. There are those who try to say it is the water that washes away our sins. There are those who say that one must have water baptism to be saved. Praise God, I believe you are saved. For you do know that it is the blood that cleanse us.
There are those here that beleive that you are not saved until you have the water baptism. Of these beware. For theirs is the doctrines of men.
Hi HWe are saved by Gods's GRACE.
Won't be chatting on this post for awhile I need to study up on what I've learn't.
God bless you.Hello everyone and God Bless!
Not one person here has denied the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.
It's also obvious that Jesus thought water baptism was important.
Mat 3:13 Then came Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized by him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and come you to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now: for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up immediately out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.And what is up with all the rebuking?
Amen and welcome,
The Spirit of God always causes a reaction among natural men, but it is only a temporary distraction.Thank you. I'm glad that I finally stopped lurking and finally joined 🙂 lol
I'll tell you what, I struggled with the Jesus is God doctrine.
It never, ever set right with me. I acted like I believed it but in my heart, I knew it wasn't right. When I would read, over and over I would see the Son of God. Jesus would glorify His Father, our Father. Always giving His Father, God all of the glory.Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
That's says a lot!
Again, thanks for the welcome and God Bless you!
Hi lop,
Men put two and two together and make zillions.
Because they believe God is one and see the son has divine origins they presume that he is not really a son but is still a part of that God.
Such leads to rampant evil folly which extolls the vanity of men but insults God.
They would be wiser to fear God and build on fact and not fantasy.Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 01 2006,21:06) Hello everyone and God Bless! Not one person here has denied the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.
It's also obvious that Jesus thought water baptism was important.
Mat 3:13 Then came Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized by him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and come you to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now: for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up immediately out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.And what is up with all the rebuking?
Welcome,Man has taken that which is God's and minimized it (Rom 1:18-32) Where in scripture does it say that baptism is just a symbol? I never read it. Yet we see Jesus being baptized to fulfill all righteousness. No one here beleives that JUST baptism saves or denies the blood. I do beleive baptism is important for two reasons. 1. God commands it,2. Nothing God commands is without supernatural authority (John 4:24). It is man that creates traditions which make null and void the doctrines of the Bible. I thank God for His mercy because such was I, but I have been cleansed and sanctified by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.
Quote (Sultan @ Oct. 02 2006,18:13) Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 01 2006,21:06) Hello everyone and God Bless! Not one person here has denied the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.
It's also obvious that Jesus thought water baptism was important.
Mat 3:13 Then came Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized by him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized by you, and come you to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now: for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up immediately out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.And what is up with all the rebuking?
Welcome,Man has taken that which is God's and minimized it (Rom 1:18-32) Where in scripture does it say that baptism is just a symbol? I never read it. Yet we see Jesus being baptized to fulfill all righteousness. No one here beleives that JUST baptism saves or denies the blood. I do beleive baptism is important for two reasons. 1. God commands it,2. Nothing God commands is without supernatural authority (John 4:24). It is man that creates traditions which make null and void the doctrines of the Bible. I thank God for His mercy because such was I, but I have been cleansed and sanctified by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.
Amen, Sultan.Some thoughts. Open to rebuttal.
Is there an example of ANYONE being given the spirit baptism who NEVER was water baptized? I am not talking about sequence, such as first water baptism, followed by the spirit baptism … but whether there is an example where the spirit was poured out unto someone who did not ever get water baptized?
Back in Egypt, God commanded Moses to get his people out of Egypt and went to a lot of trouble doing it.
1. The journey out of Egypt began in the night of the passover sacrifice where ALL Israel partook. Here is the blood aspect for the forgiveness of sins and sactification of the covenant/testament, according to Hebrews 9. In other words, a rejection of Christ as the excellent and final passover lamb puts one outside of the camp of those purchased by the blood of Christ unto salvation. In Egypt, all who were not found under the blood of the the passover lamb, suffered death in their household right down to the animals. It didn't matter if they were of Israel.
No one is of Christ without first believing that he is our passover lamb from God, given for our forgiveness. Period.
2. The people who ate of the passover still had to go through the waters of the red sea and the Jordan to get home. Imagine if they would have refused to, because they ate the passover lamb? This would have immediately left them open to a) return to the land of their captivity b) be likely slain by the armies of Pharoah or who knows what else c) be stuck in the wilderness perpetually and not entering into the promised land. As it were, many didn't…
Water baptism is something that mostly depends on our own determination. We have some degree of control over it. The pouring out of the holy spirit is something that is at the Father's discretion, however! e.g. There is no mention of the Ethiopian Eunuch being baptized in the Spirit.
Although we can ask for the baptism of the spirit as Jesus taught us, believing that God is faithful, it is something that God causes to happen at his own pleasure, and not from our command or demand (Acts 5:32).
Cornelius didn't have to ask! God gave him and his group a blank check so to speak by baptizing them in the spirit first. Cornelius would not have been deliberating whether or not to be water baptized into Christ and the evidence shows that they were in fact baptized with water EVEN AFTER the spirit baptism! That's enough for me.
The Ethiopian Eunuch could ask to be water baptised and rejoice! The eyes of the Lord are upon them that fear him.
Acts 8:36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.The knowledge of God, or of Christ as our passover lamb, or of water baptism would save no one if such a soul is not yielded to God. Cornelius lived for God. May we do the same.
Amen cubes,
Look too at 1 Cor 10
” 1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.”
And Heb 6 also shows us the basics of our faith.” 1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.”
It is foolishness to men but of the Wisdom of God.
LK 7
“35But wisdom is justified of all her children.”Beware of Wolves in Sheeps Clothing who may come to the forum posting as someone other then who they normally are.
Yes H ,
We do see them from time to time but their true nature does not take long to become apparent by their words and actions.Dear Cubes,
I am not sure I understand your post. Are you asking if it would be alright to not get the water baptism and only the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Sis, you have to understand what exactly the water baptism is the symbolism of and what we are doing when we receive it. When we get saved, our hearts are cleansed by the blood of the lamb. We die to our sinful nature and become new creatures in Christ. Yet, this is what happens on the inside. No one can see this but God and the the only ones who know of this is the man who was saved and God. So when the man goes and gets baptized in water, he is telling the world, since the world cannot see into his heart, that he has died to his sinful self and is a new creature in Christ. He is glorifying God. And all the angels in heaven rejoice.
So is water baptism important? Only if you think it is important to give God all the glory for his free gift of grace. I think it is like saying thank you Jesus and thank you Father God. It gives us a good concience towards God.
If a person does not get the baptism, will he lose his salvation? No where is scripture does it say this. Yet, so many cling to it. Just as those who believe once saved you are always saved cling to that belief.
Yet, I cannot see how anyone who has Christ in his heart will not yearn to be baptized both with water and the Holy Spirit. Yet, it is all a matter of what is right in the heart. And I feel if a person does not get the baptisms, even though he is saved, he is not completely right in his heart and this can lead to his losing his salvation.
What is comes down to is we are either walking up the steps of righteousness or down the steps of unrighteousness. To walk up the steps of righteousness is to allow Christ to work through us and mortify the sinful flesh. This comes only by faith. To walk down the steps of unrighteousness is to allow our self will to lead us, instead of the Holy Spirit of God.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Oct. 03 2006,05:30) Dear Cubes, I am not sure I understand your post. Are you asking if it would be alright to not get the water baptism and only the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Sis, you have to understand what exactly the water baptism is the symbolism of and what we are doing when we receive it. When we get saved, our hearts are cleansed by the blood of the lamb. We die to our sinful nature and become new creatures in Christ. Yet, this is what happens on the inside. No one can see this but God and the the only ones who know of this is the man who was saved and God. So when the man goes and gets baptized in water, he is telling the world, since the world cannot see into his heart, that he has died to his sinful self and is a new creature in Christ. He is glorifying God. And all the angels in heaven rejoice.
So is water baptism important? Only if you think it is important to give God all the glory for his free gift of grace. I think it is like saying thank you Jesus and thank you Father God. It gives us a good concience towards God.
If a person does not get the baptism, will he lose his salvation? No where is scripture does it say this. Yet, so many cling to it. Just as those who believe once saved you are always saved cling to that belief.
Yet, I cannot see how anyone who has Christ in his heart will not yearn to be baptized both with water and the Holy Spirit. Yet, it is all a matter of what is right in the heart. And I feel if a person does not get the baptisms, even though he is saved, he is not completely right in his heart and this can lead to his losing his salvation.
What is comes down to is we are either walking up the steps of righteousness or down the steps of unrighteousness. To walk up the steps of righteousness is to allow Christ to work through us and mortify the sinful flesh. This comes only by faith. To walk down the steps of unrighteousness is to allow our self will to lead us, instead of the Holy Spirit of God.
Hi H,Thanks for taking the time to respond and clarify. I don't disagree with the point of view you've shared, except that the terminology of “3” baptisms is conflicting with the scriptures' in terms of vocabulary, and thereby introduces confusion.
Obviously, there is no point in getting water baptised if one does not first believe that God is, and that Jesus Christ is his son according to all that is written about him in the scriptures.
And yes, it is by grace that we are saved as none is perfect. Does that mean that water baptism is OPTIONAL? Not according to my understanding of the word. Does that mean that a genuine follower of Jesus who is unable to be baptised for reasons beyond his/her control would be condemned? I don't believe that either.
Is mere belief that Jesus is the lamb of God who gave his life for us enough to save us? I doubt that also.
Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Oct. 03 2006,05:30) Dear Cubes, I am not sure I understand your post. Are you asking if it would be alright to not get the water baptism and only the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Hi bro.I was enquiring if there is an example of someone being only baptized in the spirit, without water baptism?
In other words, I believe that all who were baptized in the spirit, also received water baptism into Christ…. so the spirit baptism does not negate the baptism of water.
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