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1. When Jesus says “I am the way , the truth and the life” isn’t he strictly addressing Israel/Jews at that time? The reason I ask is becuase at that time he also said he was only sent to the house of Israel and instructed even his disciples to not go to the Gentiles. My point is what would make the first statement be for everyone for all time and the other with only temporary effect?
2. Why is it when people preach they say that Jesus died for their sins when Jesus said he was “NOT WILLING” saying specifically “Not my will” and if in fact it was God’s will for Jesus to be crucified why then does Jesus say “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” Why would there be a need to be forgiven for fulfilling God’s will? It seems to me from this that it was not the Will of Jesus or God for Jesus to be crucified y point here is Jesus would have been crucified for his devotion to God and not to die for anyone’s sin
Response to a muslim
“He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.Hi BD,
“At the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut 19:15)Witness #1
Mark 8:31 And[Jesus] began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected
of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.Witness #2
Matt 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples,
how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders
and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.Witness #3
1 Cor 15:12-14 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead,
how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.Witness #4
Rev 1:17-18 Fear not; I am the first and the last: and was dead; and,
behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
1 John 2:2 [Jesus Christ] is the propitiation for our sins:
and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy,
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant,
wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?Moreover, brethren, I(the Apostle Paul) declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you,
…how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried,
and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Cor 15:1…4)
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.“[Jesus Christ was] declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead:” (Romans 1:4)1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things
have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know
that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2012,10:24) 1. When Jesus says “I am the way , the truth and the life” isn't he strictly addressing Israel/Jews at that time? The reason I ask is becuase at that time he also said he was only sent to the house of Israel and instructedeven his disciples to not go to the gentiles. My point is what would make the first statement be for everyone for all time and the other with only temporary effect?
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.It doesn't say no Jew comes to the Father except me.
Also, if you think Jesus is for the Jews only, then why not Mohammed to the Moslems only. The truth is, one of these men was given as a ransom for ALL men, and that man is not Mohammed no matter how hard you try to make it real.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2012,10:24) 2. Why is it when people preach they say that Jesus died for their sins when Jesus said he was “NOT WILLING” saying specifically “Not my will” and if in fact it was God's will for Jesus to be crucified why then does Jesus say “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” Why would there be a need to be forgiven for fulfilling God's will? It seems to me from this that it was not the Will of Jesus or God for Jesus to be crucified y point here is Jesus would have been crucified for his devotion to God and not to die for anyone's sin
All your question proves is how deceit works. You are trying to deny the very work of salvation and by what spirit does a man do that?Jesus as a man did not want to suffer the death and torture that laid before him. This shows that he was a man like you and me for what man wants such things.
But as a man, he still chose God's will over his own and God wanted his son to die only as a ransom to the lost. Surely from God's perspective it was better for his son to die so that he could raise him and those in him to eternal life than for the son not to suffer and for the lost to lose their souls.
Also, just because God knew that his son would be killed by those that were of the enemy, doesn't make it any less of a sin to murder an innocent man just because God can use it. Likewise God uses us for his own glory even though we were sinners and God often used the enemy to fulfill his will. Even Satan who is loosed from the bottomless pit for a short time will gather all his from the ends of the Earth. God uses him to round up the goats so they will then be judged.
If you can accept it, even Satan glorifies God by accusing him day and night. Why? Because when anyone is on trial and the accusations are found to be false, then that only solidifies the fact that God is true to those who are witnesses.
The next thing I notice is that you are baffled by the same wisdom that the kings/princes of this world were baffled by, as it is written:
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
So it is by the spirit of God that we are privy to God's plan and will.
Here is the context and please judge your own question and motive by what you will read next. Please notice what your question reveals about you.
1 Corinthians 2
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Quote (t8 @ April 02 2012,20:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2012,10:24) 1. When Jesus says “I am the way , the truth and the life” isn't he strictly addressing Israel/Jews at that time? The reason I ask is becuase at that time he also said he was only sent to the house of Israel and instructedeven his disciples to not go to the gentiles. My point is what would make the first statement be for everyone for all time and the other with only temporary effect?
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.It doesn't say no Jew comes to the Father except me.
Also, if you think Jesus is for the Jews only, then why not Mohammed to the Moslems only. The truth is, one of these men was given as a ransom for ALL men, and that man is not Mohammed no matter how hard you try to make it real.
t8You didn't answer the Questions you just commented on the nature of the question. I asked specifically what makes one comment everlasting and the other a temporary one?
Ironically you don't believe that the absolute statement by God Himself concerning circumcision being an EVERLASTING COVENANT isa permanent statement but Jesus saying “I am the way,the truth and the life no ne comes to the father except through me” what is the difference between that statement Jesus made and the one he made about ONLY being sent to the Jews?
This is only dealing with the first question which you nor ED answered although there were several posts.
Quote (t8 @ April 02 2012,20:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2012,10:24) 2. Why is it when people preach they say that Jesus died for their sins when Jesus said he was “NOT WILLING” saying specifically “Not my will” and if in fact it was God's will for Jesus to be crucified why then does Jesus say “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” Why would there be a need to be forgiven for fulfilling God's will? It seems to me from this that it was not the Will of Jesus or God for Jesus to be crucified y point here is Jesus would have been crucified for his devotion to God and not to die for anyone's sin Quote All your question proves is how deceit works. You are trying to deny the very work of salvation and by what spirit does a man do that? Actually the question does not have to do with salvation at all, salvation comes from God
Quote Jesus as a man did not want to suffer the death and torture that laid before him. This shows that he was a man like you and me for what man wants such things. This is problematic in so many ways because for one it is in agreement with my point that Jesus was not willing to die for the sins of anyone therefore saying “NOT MY WILL”
Quote But as a man, he still chose God's will over his own and God wanted his son to die only as a ransom to the lost. Then why did he teach repentance for the remission of sins as John the baptist did? He sent his disciples out to preach repentance for the remission of sins to the lost. Also regarding “ransom” who held the hostages and who got the payment?
Quote Surely from God's perspective it was better for his son to die so that he could raise him and those in him to eternal life than for the son not to suffer and for the lost to lose their souls. Even so he would not have to have His son Murdered to accomplish that same feat what does the suffering have to do with your theory? Not even animals that were sacrificed to God were allowed to suffer it would make the sacrifice unacceptable.
Quote Also, just because God knew that his son would be killed by those that were of the enemy, doesn't make it any less of a sin to murder an innocent man just because God can use it. So when Jesus says “forgive them for they know not what they do” that's a problem for how you believe because Jesus is saying they don't understand what they are doing and this also means Jesus didn't understand why it was happening because if he did he would have not said “forgive them” for doing the will of God. If they were not doing the will of God then the statement makes sense.
So Jesus says “Not my Will” and then he says “forgive them Father” but you insist this was God's plan so you are saying Jesus is saying forgive them for doing God's will?
Quote Likewise God uses us for his own glory even though we were sinners and God often used the enemy to fulfill his will. Even Satan who is loosed from the bottomless pit for a short time will gather all his from the ends of the Earth. God uses him to round up the goats so they will then be judged. So are you saying that Judas was acting on God's behalf through Satan? Was that betrayal the will of God?
[Quot]If you can accept it, even Satan glorifies God by accusing him day and night. Why? Because when anyone is on trial and the accusations are found to be false, then that only solidifies the fact that God is true to those who are witnesses.[/Quote]
So God is on trial? Really t8 reread tht again? Who can put God on trial?
Quote The next thing I notice is that you are baffled by the same wisdom that the kings/princes of this world were baffled by, as it is written: 6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
This being the case them “Knowing not what they do” is a blessing but he says “forgive them” as if he is not privy to God's plan either.
Quote So it is by the spirit of God that we are privy to God's plan and will. if that was the case regarding this incident why is it that none of the disciples took it to be a great thing? “They all fled and forsook him” now it is your claim that they would have been had spiritual insight and rejoiced at the crucifixion for it would have been the crowning achievement of ALL TIME but they behaved like people not understanding this “great plan” as if that wasn't the plan at all.
By the way If I was made administrator of this site and I said “I have only come to those of Heaven.net” and then I said “I give out editing rights, make moderators and except members no one can post except through me”
Would you think I then meant no one could post on any other forums except by me?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,01:38) t8 You didn't answer the Questions you just commented on the nature of the question. I asked specifically what makes one comment everlasting and the other a temporary one?
Ironically you don't believe that the absolute statement by God Himself concerning circumcision being an EVERLASTING COVENANT isa permanent statement but Jesus saying “I am the way,the truth and the life no ne comes to the father except through me” what is the difference between that statement Jesus made and the one he made about ONLY being sent to the Jews?
This is only dealing with the first question which you nor ED answered although there were several posts.
Hi BD,Circumcision is the best preventive care to stop cervical cancer in women.
It symbolizes the cutting away of the sin nature out of mans life. (1Cor 15:22)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,02:17) Quote Surely from God's perspective it was better for his son to die so that he could raise him and those in him to eternal life than for the son not to suffer and for the lost to lose their souls. Even so he would not have to have His son Murdered to accomplish that same feat what does the suffering have to do with your theory? Not even animals that were sacrificed to God were allowed to suffer it would make the sacrifice unacceptable.
Hi BD,“[Jesus] was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and
YHVH hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter (see John 1:29),
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.” (Isa 53:5-7)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,05:17) Actually the question does not have to do with salvation at all, salvation comes from God
You then show that you do not understand salvation.Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin.
Jesus is the lamb of God, but this is not understood or is ignored by you.
Jesus died so that we may all live.
You too are ignorant of this wisdom that predates the world.
This and other key points show the true nature of your so-called prophet.
John the Baptist was a true prophet.
“Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.”
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,05:22) By the way If I was made administrator of this site and I said “I have only come to those of Heaven.net” and then I said “I give out editing rights, make moderators and except members no one can post except through me” Would you think I then meant no one could post on any other forums except by me?
If I said I was only administering to those on Heaven Net and said that all men have sinned, then I am making a statement about all men to the Heaven Net crowd.Quote (Ed J @ April 03 2012,07:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,01:38) t8 You didn't answer the Questions you just commented on the nature of the question. I asked specifically what makes one comment everlasting and the other a temporary one?
Ironically you don't believe that the absolute statement by God Himself concerning circumcision being an EVERLASTING COVENANT isa permanent statement but Jesus saying “I am the way,the truth and the life no ne comes to the father except through me” what is the difference between that statement Jesus made and the one he made about ONLY being sent to the Jews?
This is only dealing with the first question which you nor ED answered although there were several posts.
Hi BD,Circumcision is the best preventive care to stop cervical cancer in women.
It symbolizes the cutting away of the sin nature out of mans life. (1Cor 15:22)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Are you circumcized like me?Quote (Ed J @ April 03 2012,07:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,02:17) Quote Surely from God's perspective it was better for his son to die so that he could raise him and those in him to eternal life than for the son not to suffer and for the lost to lose their souls. Even so he would not have to have His son Murdered to accomplish that same feat what does the suffering have to do with your theory? Not even animals that were sacrificed to God were allowed to suffer it would make the sacrifice unacceptable.
Hi BD,“[Jesus] was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and
YHVH hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter (see John 1:29),
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.” (Isa 53:5-7)B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
Bhe did open his mouth ED he spoke the entire time even telling them:Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.Quote (t8 @ April 03 2012,08:16) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,05:17) Actually the question does not have to do with salvation at all, salvation comes from God
You then show that you do not understand salvation.Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin.
Jesus is the lamb of God, but this is not understood or is ignored by you.
Jesus died so that we may all live.
You too are ignorant of this wisdom that predates the world.
This and other key points show the true nature of your so-called prophet.
John the Baptist was a true prophet.
“Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.”
T8“Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.”
How does that mean is sacrificed for the sins ofthe world? I have already shown you that the scapegoat takes away the sins without being sacrificed:
Leviticus 16:10
But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
There you have atonement without bloodshed and look John says the Lamb of God who takes AWAY.
I will insert the idea(God willing you will see the point)
Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron(John the Baptist) shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat (Jesus), and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat,(at the baptism) and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man (Matthew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.)
into the wilderness: (to be tempted of Satan)You have to understand that Jesus said after this time
John 17:4
King James Version (KJV)
4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
There was no bloodshed and Jesus declared that he was finished with the work God gave him. Do you at least see my point?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2012,11:11) Are you circumcized like me?
Hi BD,I was circumcised as a baby, not sure
if was on the eighth day or not though?B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
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