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Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 09 2009,04:08) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 09 2009,19:27) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2009,22:01) hi P2al
yes before it was Israel and the rest of the world,to day is it different or only the names have changed,like true christians and the others,the jews should have stay faithfull to God and we would have knowned God from them,now the true christiansare there and we learn God ways through them and there massages.
see the difference?
?
We learn 'elohim's ways through “massages”?
massages are good.they can feel heavenly.
I like that name “peace2all”, cool name!Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2009,04:14) Who here does not understand that those who walk according to the Spirit truly love their neighbor as themselves and so keep the law? Is there anyone who disagrees with that statement?
If so please speak up and say why you disagree.
If not then you must realize that in loving your neighbor as yourself that you do all that has ever commanded his people to do.
I totally understand and agree, but I think you know that already.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 09 2009,19:24) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,13:36) we are now under christ's new law. the 10 commandments were for the jews, moses had handed down. it was back the the god of isreal that all others were fighting or hating. through jesus , we now are all son's of god and we are all under the law created by jesus's ransom. we are one family, one group. it's no longer the jews and then everyone else as it was back then.
we are now under christ's new law. the 10 commandments were for the jews, moses had handed down. it was back the the god of isreal that all others were fighting or hating. through jesus , we now are all son's of god and we are all under the law created by jesus's ransom. we are one family, one group. it's no longer the jews and then everyone else as it was back then.Quote we are now under christ's new law. Are you talking about these “(2) New laws”?:
Yeshua HaMoshiach said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy 'elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27
And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 22:39; Mark 12:31; Luke 10:27
If these laws are “New” then why are they in the Old Testament?:
And thou shalt love the LORD thy 'elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:5; Deuteronomy 10:12
And the LORD thy 'elohim will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy 'elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD. Leviticus 19:18
It seems Yeshua HaMoshiach quoted these two “New” laws from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. What do you think?
Quote the 10 commandments were for the jews, moses had handed down. Is that the truth? Are you sure the “Ten Commandments” did not exist before Moses and Mount Sinai?
1. Do not have other gods (Genesis 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that [were] with him, Put away the strange gods that [are] among you, and be clean, and change your garments: And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went. And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which [were] in their hand, and [all their] earrings which [were] in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which [was] by Shechem. Genesis 35:2-4
That was way before Moses on Mount Sinai.
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Genesis 12:7,8 and Genesis 21:33 indicate the reverence held for 'elohim's name)
And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, [having] Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD. Genesis 12:7-8
And [Abraham] planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting 'elohim. Genesis 21:33
Well there are three commandments in example prior tp Moses and Mount Sinai.
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 16:23-30,35)
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day 'elohim ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And 'elohim blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which 'elohim created and made. Genesis 2:1-3
And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake [that] which ye will bake [to day], and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day [is] a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, [which is] the sabbath, in it there shall be none. And it came to pass, [that] there went out [some] of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day. . . And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan. Exodus 16:23-30,35
A ) 'Elohim made the “Sabbath” at creation.
B ) In the desert 'elohim expressed how he wanted them to keep the Sabbath, he even provided them the food daily and doubled the portion on the sixth day (preparation day).
C ) Ofcourse some did not listen, and 'elohim chastized them.
D ) Notice: “And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?” Well?
What did he say? They already knew his “COMMANDMENTS and LAWS!” They have NOT even gotten to Mount Sinai where the Commandments were alledgedly handed down by Moses as you say. Can you explain that? They were still wandering in the desert.
E ) The children of 'elohim kept the Sabbath for 40 years before they arrived to Mount Sinai.You should really re-think what you read.
5. Honor your parents (Genesis 9:20-25)
And Noah began [to be] an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid [it] upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces [were] backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. Genesis 9:20-25
Noah and Ham were long before Moses and Mount Sinai.
6. Do not kill (Genesis 4:5-11)
But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And t
he LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; Genesis 4:5-11If Commandment (6) did not exist until the time of Moses then Cain would not have been guilty. Also 'elohim spoke about sin laying at the door, since sin is transgressing the Law then the Law must have been in effect, and this was a long, long time before Moses and Mount Sinai.
7. Do not commit adultery (Genesis 39:7-9)
And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me. But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what [is] with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand; Genesis 39:7-9
Joseph knew adultery is forbidden.
8. Do not steal (Genesis 44:8,9)
Behold, the money, which we found in our sacks' mouths, we brought again unto thee out of the land of Canaan: how then should we steal out of thy lord's house silver or gold? With whomsoever of thy servants it be found, both let him die, and we also will be my lord's bondmen. Genesis 44:8,9
What is stealing unless there is a law?
9. Do not give false testimony (Genesis 27:8-12)
Now therefore, my son, obey my voice according to that which I command thee. Go now to the flock, and fetch me from thence two good kids of the goats; and I will make them savoury meat for thy father, such as he loveth: And thou shalt bring [it] to thy father, that he may eat, and that he may bless thee before his death. And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother [is] a hairy man, and I [am] a smooth man: My father peradventure will feel me, and I shall seem to him as a deceiver; and I shall bring a curse upon me, and not a blessing. Genesis 27:8-12
A fine example of false testimony, lonf before Moses.
10. Do not covet (Genesis 13:8,9)
And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land. And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we [be] brethren. Genesis 13:8,9
I know if you diligently search the scriptures you find more fine examples of the Commandments and Laws of 'elohim un the bible.
Quote we now are all son's of god and we are all under the law created by jesus's ransom. What is the LAW of RANSOM? Or What is the LAW CREATED by his RANSOM?
well when moses came down, did he not come with the written commanments?thats my point if that exact point in time was not then nessasary why did it happen, why does that stand out as a special message then?
those were laws for god's chosen people. why are you trying to set up arguement not even have been an issue or talked about.
youre right they knew not to have worshiped false gods, yet they did just as moses was gettin the commandments.
whats your point?
those commandments being given to there prophet moses was the “decree” to adhere to these things. a written law.
in a sense saying hey look these are the laws before your eyes, you best now listen.
the jewish people were given those. they had made it known who their god was.all others who were not loving gold almighty but were worshiping false gods and doing ungodly things.. that is why they were persecuted, because of their way .
the new law is written upon our hearts and minds and is a spiritual law. ( for the sin is now forgiveable)
the new law is through jesus. our covenant is a new one through jesus.
Think about it, what was so special about Moses' special audience with 'elohim?
Why did 'elohim get personally involved in this circumstance?
What did all of creation do to get to this point of this special audience?
Why did 'elohim personally himself write the decalogue with his own finger?
And what was it written on?
And why was it written on stone?
And why did he even take it to the next level and give them the 613 ordinances?
Are you seeing a pattern here yet?
Mankind always had 'elohim's Laws from the beginning, but then it took on something different on the Mount.
'Elohim even said to Moses when given the ordinances that there would come a time it would even take on something different again.
Patterns, patterns, patterns, when the eyes are open it all becomes crystal clear.
When seen for what it is there is no argument.
Also you mentioned they were 'elohims chosen people, I tell you they were not feeling too chosen at that time with that special audience, many died, Moses was punished, etc. . .
You should re-read the Exodus to the Mount.
Blessings to you, I do believe you are seeing what I am alluding too.
Quote the new law is written upon our hearts and minds and is a spiritual law. ( for the sin is now forgiveable) the new law is through jesus. our covenant is a new one through jesus.
The “new law” is quoted in the Old Testament, it is not new for it is written, but it is new for those who finally understand it.
“( for the sin is now forgiveable)” = “( for the sin [transgression of the law] is now forgiveable)”
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 10 2009,01:32) Quote the new law is written upon our hearts and minds and is a spiritual law. ( for the sin is now forgiveable) the new law is through jesus. our covenant is a new one through jesus.
The “new law” is quoted in the Old Testament, it is not new for it is written, but it is new for those who finally understand it.
“( for the sin is now forgiveable)” = “( for the sin [transgression of the law] is now forgiveable)”
they were his people till there continually spit on him with detestable things and removed god from their hearts by ignoring his commands.the bible says what is says. i show scriptures to back i,t is all.
its up to you to accept it.
bible says we are under jesus now not the the law of old. jesus on to now is a new law.
you can remain in the old i use jesus's law tht was brought forth
we are under christ now, not that we should ignore the old, i did not say that but it is not what is the governing law. Christ is. this new commandment is the path we are to follow for our salvation to god's kingsom. we have forgiveness of the old commandments now if broken, before they did not. jesus made it forgiveable to god for us.
maybe i am not relaying it well enough.
ignoring and casting out is not the same as being under a new law that is what governs our salvation.
i think i was pretty clear. if we are not bound to it as nce was because we are forgiven of them then it is not waht governs us today. however the new covenant which is spiritual or spiritual commands or coventant is what is required of us today's people are governed under.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 09 2009,18:17) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2009,04:14) Who here does not understand that those who walk according to the Spirit truly love their neighbor as themselves and so keep the law? Is there anyone who disagrees with that statement?
If so please speak up and say why you disagree.
If not then you must realize that in loving your neighbor as yourself that you do all that has ever commanded his people to do.
I totally understand and agree, but I think you know that already.
I certainly hoped that was the case. I am just confused because some seem to believe otherwise.Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 09 2009,06:55) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 10 2009,01:32) Quote the new law is written upon our hearts and minds and is a spiritual law. ( for the sin is now forgiveable) the new law is through jesus. our covenant is a new one through jesus.
The “new law” is quoted in the Old Testament, it is not new for it is written, but it is new for those who finally understand it.
“( for the sin is now forgiveable)” = “( for the sin [transgression of the law] is now forgiveable)”
they were his people till there continually spit on him with detestable things and removed god from their hearts by ignoring his commands.the bible says what is says. i show scriptures to back i,t is all.
its up to you to accept it.
bible says we are under jesus now not the the law of old. jesus on to now is a new law.
you can remain in the old i use jesus's law tht was brought forth
Quote peace2all, Posted on Dec. 09 2009,07:07 we are under christ now, not that we should ignore the old, i did not say that but it is not what is the governing law. Christ is. this new commandment is the path we are to follow for our salvation to god's kingsom. we have forgiveness of the old commandments now if broken, before they did not. jesus made it forgiveable to god for us.
maybe i am not relaying it well enough.
ignoring and casting out is not the same as being under a new law that is what governs our salvation.
Quote peace2all, Posted on Dec. 09 2009,07:14 i think i was pretty clear. if we are not bound to it as nce was because we are forgiven of them then it is not waht governs us today. however the new covenant which is spiritual or spiritual commands or coventant is what is required of us today's people are governed under.
peace2all stated:
“we are under christ now, not that we should ignore the old, i did not say that but it is not what is the governing law. Christ is.”1) We are in Yeshua HaMoshiach as he is in us.
2)If you say “we should not ignore the old”, then what would oe should we do with it?
3) What is the governing law?
4) The Messiah is law?peace2all stated:
“this new commandment is the path we are to follow for our salvation to god's kingsom.”1) So you must follow this path (“new commandment”) for your salvation?
2) So you are not to follow the old commandments, but you are to follow the new commandments?
3) Are you not saved through grace?peace2all stated:
“we have forgiveness of the old commandments now if broken,”1) You do? You can break the old commandements now?
2) So you break an old commandment and you do not need repentance?peace2all stated:
“jesus made it forgiveable to god for us.”1) Yes but don't you need to be forgiven?
peace2all stated:
“maybe i am not relaying it well enough.”1) Maybe.
peace2all stated:
“ignoring and casting out is not the same as being under a new law that is what governs our salvation.”1) I did not comprehend that comment, sorry.
peace2all stated:
“i think i was pretty clear. if we are not bound to it as nce was because we are forgiven of them then it is not waht governs us today.”1) So you are not bound not to have other gods?
2) So you are not bound not to have idols?
3) So you are not bound not to misuse the Lord's name?
4) So you are not bound not to keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy?
5) So you are not bound not to honor your parents?
6) So you are not bound not to kill?
7) So you are not bound not to commit adultery?
8) So you are not bound not to steal?
9) So you are not bound not to give false testimony?
10) So you are not bound not to covet?peace2all stated:
“however the new covenant which is spiritual or spiritual commands or coventant is what is required of us today's people are governed under.”1) Rom 7:14 — For we know that the law is spiritual:
hi all
the all of the law and rules are spiritual,only the the rituals were action to show willingness to do Gods requirements,just like how you show someone that you love him,this expression of feelling has actions ,this is what christ talks about wen he said the who loves me do what i say.this is my understanding
you playin games CON. if i say that our sins were atoned (sanctified)(cleansed)from christs ransom, that is why it is forgiveable to god and we can now repent to him and if we keep in union with him that he will forgive.
then you ask a stupid question to me ” but don't you need to be forgiven?
if its now forgiveable to god then it would be.
Galatians 3:19,16 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made…”And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
Ephesians 2:14,15 For He Himself [Jesus] is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Hebrews 8:6,7 But now He [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9:15-18 And for this reason He [Jesus] is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood
Christians are not under the Law of Moses today, only Jews ever were, Christians today are to follow Jesus Christ
you play games just like a lot of regular posters here. never using scriptures. multiple scriptures found to be consistant in message regarding a topic with words pertaining to topic will resinate and show the truth.
your way just make does no good for you.
when yuo see the truth take it in you must be a doer of the word , not just a person seeing them. for it will fill you with flase reasoning
Ephesians 2:14,15 For He Himself [Jesus] is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace
great scripture – we are under christ
thats the point right there not if we need to obey them or not still but that christ is the new way
peace2all stated:
“ignoring and casting out is not the same as being under a new law that is what governs our salvation.”1) I did not comprehend that comment, sorry.
really, is it that hard to understand
saying that they are no longer there or THE commandments is not the same as ignoring them.
the things in the original commandments are still wrong to do in gods eyes however it is not the law that governs us today after christ ransom.
before it was you must follow these commandments —- today its we must follow christ–
do you now get it?
Colossians 2:14
Deuteronomy 5:2
Hebrews 8:13
Romans 7:7
Hebrews 10:20definition's of bound :
Headed or intending to head in a specified direction
Confined by bonds
To constitute the boundary or limit of
we are not headed by just 10 commandments or confined to just them and is not the only boundry.
when christ replaced the law of moses , he obsorbed the laws and creeated other things we are to do to follow god's will
it is more than just that of old, it is new.
he is now our commandment, we are to follow him – just as they were to follow the laws
CON its not my fault you fail to understand or try to comprehend its not that hard
we are under christ! plain and simple
your questions are foolish
your question ” messiah is the law” – well we are to follow his teachings and works aren't we are to do his will that is his fathers will. those are laws, the way.
it is more than just the law of old, we just AREN'T technically under THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
i've noticed on here that people do not give christ much glory. either he is just a mere man prophet or then thse who think he's god.
christ for his unswaying devotion to his father is given the earth and all in it to reign over as king.
he is the way to god. he is the new covenant/the new law and the way. his blood cleansed us,his teachings actions are what we need to adhere and we need to do god's will. by doing this though christ we can get to know god and have a relationship with him and have a chance to live under god's new kingdom on earth.
The Old Covenant ('Elohim's Covenant with Physical Israel)
'Elohim magnified His moral law (the Ten Commandments) to point out sin. Isa 42:21, Ro 5:13,20
'Elohim magnified His system of ceremonial types that pointed to the Messiah. Ex 25:8,9,40, Ex 25-31, Heb 8:2,5
'Elohim magnified His health laws to promote health. Lev 11:1-47
'Elohim formalized a system of civil laws necessary to maintain law and order. Ex 21-23
The people mistakenly interpreted the old covenant as a covenant of works. (“We will do.”) Ex 19:7,8, Ex 24:3,7, Dt 5:27, Ro 9:30-32
The people believed they could obey the commands in their own power, without help from 'Elohim.
'Elohim allowed the absense of provisions for divine assistance so the people would come to realize their need for the Messiah. Gal 3:10,11,19,24,25
The people made a superficial commitment, rather than one from the heart. Ex 32:1-4, Dt 5:28,29 compare 1Sa 16:7 and Eze 36:26
Hagar is identified as symbolic of the old covenant. Gal 4:22-24
Abraham relied on his own works when he attempted to receive the promised son through Hagar, rather than keeping faith in 'Elohim.
Attributes of the old covenant
The peoples' promises were superficial and self righteous. Heb 8:6
'Elohim found fault with the people because they did not remain faithful to it. Jer 11:6-8, Heb 8:7-9
Included the ceremonial law (“blood of” Ex 24:8, “ark of” Heb 9:1-12)
Focused on the letter of the law (externalized, mechanical ritual) 2Co 3:6
Ratified with the blood of an animal sacrifice Heb 9:19,20
Mediator (Moses) chosen by the people because of their fear of 'Elohim after hearing Him speak the Ten Commandments. Ex 20:1,19
Obsolete Heb 8:13
The moral law (the Ten Commandments) is not obsolete.
Not faulty Ne 9:13, Ps 19:7, Ro 7:7,12, Ro 8:4, Jas 1:25 compare Jas 2:11,12
Written by 'Elohim's own finger Ex 31:18, Ex 32:16, Dt 5:22, Ex 34:1
Spoken by 'Elohim directly to the people Ex 20:1-17, Dt 5:22, Dt 10:4
'Elohim expects obedience to His law. Pr 28:4,9, Jer 7:8-10, Mt 28:19,20, Ro 7:21-25, Ro 8:7,8, 1Jn 3:4-10
The moral law played a role in the old covenant, yet was distinct from the agreement itself. (“words of” Ex 34:28) (“tablets of” Dt 9:15, Heb 9:4)
The health laws are not obsolete because our bodies have not changed.
The essence of the civil laws are not obsolete because civil order is still a fundamental necessity.
The ceremonial laws are obsolete because their types have all been realized by the Messiah. Col 2:14-17
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