1 Chronicles 21:1 then and now viewpoints

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  • #323222
    kerwin
    Participant

    1 Chronicles 21:1
    King James Version (KJV)

    21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

    The culture of today would declare Satan did not provoke David as Satan,  who was unseen, can be removed from the picture and yet David, of his own choosing, freely chose to number Israel.

    The Scriptural equation is intending evil results, Satan provoked a human to sin.

    The equation of today is the human provoked himself to sin.

    There are some that include both explanations by claiming that Satan used to provoke humans to sin but he no longer needs to do so as humans currently provoke themselves.

    #323223
    terraricca
    Participant

    KERWIN

    The Scriptural equation is intending evil results, Satan provoked a human to sin.

    The equation of today is the human provoked himself to sin.

    is this not the same thing ???

    #323236
    kerwin
    Participant

    terraricca,Dec. wrote:

    KERWIN

    Quote
    The Scriptural equation is intending evil results, Satan provoked a human to sin.

    The equation of today is the human provoked himself to sin.

    is this not the same thing ???


    T,

    It is not the same thing for Satan tempts a human; a human does not tempt himself.  Instead a human chooses to give or not to give into temptation. Therefore being tempted is not a sin while giving into temptation is.

    #323245
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2012,03:53)

    terraricca,Dec. wrote:

    KERWIN

    Quote
    The Scriptural equation is intending evil results, Satan provoked a human to sin.

    The equation of today is the human provoked himself to sin.

    is this not the same thing ???


    T,

    It is not the same thing for Satan tempts a human; a human does not tempt himself.  Instead a human chooses to give or not to give into temptation. Therefore being tempted is not a sin while giving into temptation is.


    k

    Jas 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

    Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
    Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
    Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.

    scriptures seems to disagree with you

    #323258
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2012,04:27)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2012,03:53)

    terraricca,Dec. wrote:

    KERWIN

    Quote
    The Scriptural equation is intending evil results, Satan provoked a human to sin.

    The equation of today is the human provoked himself to sin.

    is this not the same thing ???


    T,

    It is not the same thing for Satan tempts a human; a human does not tempt himself.  Instead a human chooses to give or not to give into temptation. Therefore being tempted is not a sin while giving into temptation is.


    k

    Jas 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

    Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
    Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
    Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.

    scriptures seems to disagree with you


    T,

    Satan entices us.

    We are enticed by our own evil desires.

    Does it mean that Satan, the pole fisher, is the desires of the fish?

    #323261
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2012,05:13)

    Quote (terraria @ Dec. 03 2012,04:27)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2012,03:53)

    terraria,Dec. wrote:

    KERWIN

    Quote
    The Scriptural equation is intending evil results, Satan provoked a human to sin.

    The equation of today is the human provoked himself to sin.

    is this not the same thing ???


    T,

    It is not the same thing for Satan tempts a human; a human does not tempt himself.  Instead a human chooses to give or not to give into temptation. Therefore being tempted is not a sin while giving into temptation is.


    k

    Jas 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

    Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
    Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
    Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.

    scriptures seems to disagree with you


    T,

    Satan entices us.

    We are enticed by our own evil desires.

    Does it mean that Satan, the pole fisher, is the desires of the fish?


    k

    the rotten fish as been thrown into the world and so truth and lies are mix,and so we with our own view and mind have to pick which we want to follow and the desires from our hearts will make some pull so that we inclining towards what we want and that may not be what his true or godly truth,

    now if we say no to the inclination and chose godly truth that is good

    but if we look at the other option and start to think about it how good it would be to possess,THIS MEANS THAT WE ENTISE OUR SELF INTO SIN, and if we give in then SIN AS WIN OVER US AND SO BECOME SINNERS

    #323343
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    I was pointing out with this thread that the faith of some in the unseen has grown cold and so they do not believe that Satan and his servants tempt the children of humanity.

    #323344
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2012,12:16)
    T,

    I was pointing out with this thread that the faith of some in the unseen has grown cold and so they do not believe that Satan and his servants tempt the children of humanity.


    k

    if someone faith in God as gone or fade away he is alresdy gone to the other side ,or on his way there ,

    Satan does not temp personly anyone ,he as created the world we live in, this is the spirit of corruption that the true christians have to face and overcome if they want to receive the promise ,this as been made very clear by Christ

    #323377
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    Scripture literally states that Satan provoked David.  Job 1:15 and 1:17 speak of him provoking the Sabeans and Chaldeans respectively.  So Satan does tempt humans directly, just as he tempted Jesus.  We just do not see him or his representatives but they speak in our mind.  Their voices often sound like our own.

    That is why it is written:

    James 4:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

    #323387
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2012,01:55)
    T,

    Scripture literally states that Satan provoked David.  Job 1:15 and 1:17 speak of him provoking the Sabeans and Chaldeans respectively.  So Satan does tempt humans directly, just as he tempted Jesus.  We just do not see him or his representatives but they speak in our mind.  Their voices often sound like our own.

    That is why it is written:

    James 4:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


    k

    No he does not only Christ he did ;but because Satan has rebelled against God the almighty and creator ,we have to live in an world of confusion ,deceit ,lies ,and this we have been thougth all of this by our parents ,school teachers ,and has kings or rulers by our advisers ,

    so we listen to all these and then make our decisions ,this is the true Christian believers rely on the spirit of Christ and his father to prevent to make a bad decission;

    Mt 6:8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
    Mt 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
    “ ‘Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    Mt 6:10 your kingdom come,
    your will be done
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Mt 6:11 Give us today our daily bread.
    Mt 6:12 Forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    Mt 6:13 And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.’

    look at verse 13 if we walk in the spirit we will be protected

    so the only thing that God did not do was to deliver David from his wrong doing what he use to do many times ,David relied on that ,like any true Believer does .

    #323469
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    Most of what you say sounds accurate to my ears but I still am convinced that Satan is with the tempted to be resisted and with the tempted to run away when resisted; even though we do not see him.

    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan and in doing so we our confident he will run away. In this and more Jesus served as our example.

    #323510
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 05 2012,16:01)
    T,

    Most of what you say sounds accurate to my ears but I still am convinced that Satan is with the tempted to be resisted and with the tempted to run away when resisted; even though we do not see him.

    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan and in doing so we our confident  he will run away. In this and more Jesus served as our example.


    k

    Quote
    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan

    could you explain to me HOW IS IT THAT RESISTING SATAN HIS A PART OF OUR FAITH ???

    I ALWAYS WAS UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS THE REASON FOR OUR RESISTANCE

    #323693
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 06 2012,08:36)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 05 2012,16:01)
    T,

    Most of what you say sounds accurate to my ears but I still am convinced that Satan is with the tempted to be resisted and with the tempted to run away when resisted; even though we do not see him.

    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan and in doing so we our confident  he will run away. In this and more Jesus served as our example.


    k

    Quote
    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan

    could you explain to me HOW IS IT THAT RESISTING SATAN HIS A PART OF OUR FAITH ???

    I ALWAYS WAS UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS THE REASON FOR OUR RESISTANCE


    T,

    It is necessary to believe Jehovah gives you the power to resist Satan in order to resist him. The fruit of that belief is that you resist his wiles.

    #323767
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 08 2012,11:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 06 2012,08:36)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 05 2012,16:01)
    T,

    Most of what you say sounds accurate to my ears but I still am convinced that Satan is with the tempted to be resisted and with the tempted to run away when resisted; even though we do not see him.

    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan and in doing so we our confident  he will run away. In this and more Jesus served as our example.


    k

    Quote
    Part of our faith is that we resist Satan

    could you explain to me HOW IS IT THAT RESISTING SATAN HIS A PART OF OUR FAITH ???

    I ALWAYS WAS UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS THE REASON FOR OUR RESISTANCE


    T,

    It is necessary to believe Jehovah gives you the power to resist Satan in order to resist him.  The fruit of that belief is that you resist his wiles.


    K

    Quote
    It is necessary to believe Jehovah gives you the power to resist Satan in order to resist him

    Quote
    The fruit of that belief is that you resist his wiles.

    you are mixing all different things into one ;

    “1)Believe ?
    2)receiving power ?
    3)resit other powers or wills?
    4)the fruit ?

    so what is scriptures says about the faith (believe) is it not the promise of everlasting live ,and how to gain it ???

    2)receiving power ;by bring us to the truth of his written word ,does he not give us the powers that we need ??? yes ,if we trully believe in them that is .

    3)so as #2 by believing into the written word of God we would and will be protected ,just as Adam would never die if he stay away from eating of the forbiden tree,

    4) the fruits are only the product of Gods power through you ,if you are a good tree you will bring in good fruits if not you will not bring in good but bad fruits and so only good to be burned .

    so the faith is not the power but the will we use to believe in the faith is ,this is why God first commandment says ;

    LOVE YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR STRENGHT ,ALL YOUR HEART,AND MIND AND SOUL ” and then we can be sure that we are safe and able to resist all powers because God s power will work through us .

    #324278
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    Quote
    you are mixing all different things into one ;

    “1)Believe ?  
    2)receiving power ?
    3)resit other powers or wills?
    4)the fruit ?

    Romans 1:16-17
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    1]  Believe: from faith to faith
    2]  Receiving Power: it is the power of God
    3]  Resist other powers or wills:
    4]  The fruit: The righteousness of God

    As you see this passage from Romans explicitly states three of the four points you conclude I mixed.  The one it does not do so with is still covered as the righteousness of God is obtained by those who choose to resist the Devil by the power of God.  

    We are not like unbelievers as we believe that Satan, or his agents, tempt us to sin and that each of us can overcome by the power of God that we receive by faith.

    #324283
    terraricca
    Participant

    k

    Ro 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
    Ro 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
    Ro 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
    Ro 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
    Ro 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
    Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    Ro 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    Quote
    As you see this passage from Romans explicitly states three of the four points you conclude I mixed. The one it does not do so with is still covered as the righteousness of God is obtained by those who choose to resist the Devil by the power of God.

    We are not like unbelievers as we believe that Satan, or his agents, tempt us to sin and that each of us can overcome by the power of God that we receive by faith.

    your comment does not cover each item separtly but you do not understand Paul's point to that congregation, it also make me understand that you do not understand what faith his;

    Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    JN 3:17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
    JN 3:18 “ He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    JN 3:19 “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
    JN 3:20 “ For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
    JN 3:21 “But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

    JN 4:24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him “MUST” worship in spirit and truth.”

    #324296
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    These words declare those that are to be filled with the righteousness of God are blessed.

    Matthew 5:6
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

    Those that love are filled with the righteousness of God and so know both God and the Spirit of truth.

    1 John 4:6-8
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
    7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    #324300
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 13 2012,10:23)
    T,

    These words declare those that are to be filled with the righteousness of God are blessed.

    Matthew 5:6
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

    Those that love are filled with the righteousness of God and so know both God and the Spirit of truth.

    1 John 4:6-8
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
    7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


    k

    Quote
    These words declare those that are to be filled with the righteousness of God are blessed.

    not that are but could be ,and to be, are filled with righteousness, that will be our blessing

    we first have to fulfill the request of the faith before we can claim that we have it right ??? YES

    Quote
    Those that love are filled with the righteousness of God and so know both God and the Spirit of truth.

    no ,that's not it ;it is ;THOSE WHO PRACTICE GODLY LOVE ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS, BUT WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO OBTAIN GODLY LOVE IN OUR MIND,HEART AND SOUL ???

    because we can not be divided right see first commandment, AND IT IS ONLY THEN THAT WE REALY KNOW GOD AND HIS SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHO HIS CHRIST ,

    NOW YOU CAN SEE HOW MEN CAN BE MISLEAD WHEN YOU ONLY USE ONE OR TWO VERSES AND NOT CONTEMPLATE THE WHOLE SCRIPTURES ,BECAUSE ALL OF THE SCRIPTURES ARE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,

    SO LET US INCREASE OUR KNOWLEDGE IN GODS WORD AND BECOME MATURE IN HANDLING THEM WITH A TRUE SPIRIT

    #324308
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    Those that hunger and thirst are filled with righteousness because their hunger and thirst drive them to consume the righteousness of God.  That righteousness is in the gospel.

    Galatians 5:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  

    and

    Romans 13:10
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Those who practice godly love are declared righteous because the law is fulfilled in them.

    #324312
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 13 2012,12:45)
    T,

    Those that hunger and thirst are filled with righteousness because their hunger and thirst drive them to consume the righteousness of God.  That righteousness is in the gospel.

    Galatians 5:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  

    and

    Romans 13:10
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Those who practice godly love are declared righteous because the law is fulfilled in them.


    K

    Quote
    Those that hunger and thirst are filled with righteousness because their hunger and thirst drive them to consume the righteousness of God. That righteousness is in the gospel.

    those who are hungry EAT AND DRINK THE FOOD OF SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE AND HAVE THERE FILLED AND SO LEARN TO PRACTICE NOT THE LOVE OF THE WORLD BUT THE LOVE OF GOD THROUGH CHRIST (GOSPEL OF CHRIST )UNDERSTAND NO ONE THAT IS BORN IN THE FLESH (FROM MEN) KNOWS GOD ,BUT ALL OF US HAVE TO BE REBORN IN CHRIST ,IF THEY WANT TO BE CALLED RIGHTEOUS AND BECOME SONS OF GOD ;BECAUSE HOW CAN SOMEONE PRACTICE SOMETHING HE DOES NOT KNOW ???HE CAN'T

    JEWS FIRST THEN THE GENTILES .

    IN YOUR COMMENT AND SCRIPTURES SHOWN ,YOU ARE ONLY MENTION THE THING THAT HAVE BECOME WHAT THEY ARE BUT NOT HOW TO GET THERE,SO IT HIS YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT YOU POSSESS THOSE THINGS A SOON THAT YOU THING AND SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE RIGHT ??? NOT SO ,NOT ALL THAT WORKS WOOD ARE CARPENTERS :D

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