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David. Your quote
Quote Many translations use the expression “I Am” both at John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14. But do both texts express the same thought?
No. We know that they do not because at Exodus 3:14 the Greek Septuagint Version (the translation that was often quoted by the apostles in the first century C.E.) reads, e·gó ei·mí ho Ohń, “I am the Being.” This is quite different from the simple use of the words e·gó ei·mí (I am) at John 8:58. The verb ei·mí, at John 8:58, is evidently in the historical present, as Jesus was speaking about himself in relation to Abraham’s past. Numerous translators indicate this in their renderings. For example, An American Translation reads: “I existed before Abraham was born!”David. From your above quote, it now seems that you are conceding that “ego eimi” in John 8:58 is translated as “I am”.
Quote This is quite different from the simple use of the words e·gó ei·mí (I am) at John 8:58. Then why does your Jehovah's Witness bible translate it as “I have been” ?
The literal translation of “ego eimi” is “I am”.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 18:5-6
“They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them, “I am.” And Judas also, the one who betrayed Him, was standing with them. Therefore when He said to them, “I am,” they went backwards and fell upon the ground.”Why is it that when Jesus utters “I AM” people fall to the ground?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Jesus Christ is Jehovah: the great I AM!
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jesus Christ is called “the mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6.
JW's have a ready answer for this verse. They explain that Christ is “the mighty god” but not “the almighty.”
However, Jeremiah 32:18 shows that Jehovah is the mighty God. Therefore, since Christ is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and Jehovah is the mighty God (Jer. 32:18), then Christ the Mighty God is Jehovah God.
Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts, is his name,
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus Christ is The Mighty God, our Lord Jehovah.
HiCB,
Good question.
It did happen once when he said it.
I do not think you have yet found the answer.Quote (Cult Buster @ April 25 2007,00:23) Jesus Christ is called “the mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6. JW's have a ready answer for this verse. They explain that Christ is “the mighty god” but not “the almighty.”
However, Jeremiah 32:18 shows that Jehovah is the mighty God. Therefore, since Christ is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and Jehovah is the mighty God (Jer. 32:18), then Christ the Mighty God is Jehovah God.
Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts, is his name,
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus Christ is The Mighty God, our Lord Jehovah.
CBCorrect. I have brought this up before.
If you look at the Hebrew word for mighty you will find it is used more than once for the Father, so the whole “Jehovah is the Almighty God and Jesus is the Mighty God”, is a straw.
Its like the same argument they use for The Father is God and Jesus is Lord.
Which of course if you use their rule then the Father cant be Lord.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:08) Hi W,
Is Jesus not your Lord?
He should be.
NHYou missed the point.
Zech 14:9
And the LORD (YHWH) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be *one LORD*, and *his name one*.You have already mentioned the “One Name”, now the above scripture says that there shall be One Lord and One name and YHWH shall be King over all the earth!
Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
He is Yeshua the Word/God, YHWH in the flesh.
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:How many Lords and Gods do you have NH?
If Jesus is your Lord and master then he must be your Lord and God, or you break the first commandment.
You can not serve two masters for you will either hate the one or Love the Other!
There is only One Lord and One God!
Quote (Tim2 @ April 25 2007,11:42) Nice point WJ. I can't believe no one has thought of that before.
TimThanks!
Hope you and yours are doing well!
Blessings!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2007,10:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:08) Hi W,
Is Jesus not your Lord?
He should be.
NHYou missed the point.
Zech 14:9
And the LORD (YHWH) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be *one LORD*, and *his name one*.You have already mentioned the “One Name”, now the above scripture says that there shall be One Lord and One name and YHWH shall be King over all the earth!
Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
He is Yeshua the Word/God, YHWH in the flesh.
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:How many Lords and Gods do you have NH?
If Jesus is your Lord and master then he must be your Lord and God, or you break the first commandment.
You can not serve two masters for you will either hate the one or Love the Other!
There is only One Lord and One God!
Hi w,
Zech 14
' 1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.”
So the Lord God returns again in the vessel of the Son as Spirit to stand on the mountains then rule from Jerusalem. Again worship of God in heaven shall again be focussed on Israel. Indeed God will still be in heaven as He was when he first visited in His Son. Submission to God will invilve accepting His rule through the Son.
See ps 2
” 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,15:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2007,10:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:08) Hi W,
Is Jesus not your Lord?
He should be.
NHYou missed the point.
Zech 14:9
And the LORD (YHWH) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be *one LORD*, and *his name one*.You have already mentioned the “One Name”, now the above scripture says that there shall be One Lord and One name and YHWH shall be King over all the earth!
Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
He is Yeshua the Word/God, YHWH in the flesh.
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:How many Lords and Gods do you have NH?
If Jesus is your Lord and master then he must be your Lord and God, or you break the first commandment.
You can not serve two masters for you will either hate the one or Love the Other!
There is only One Lord and One God!
Hi w,
Zech 14
' 1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.”
So the Lord God returns again in the vessel of the Son as Spirit to stand on the mountains then rule from Jerusalem. Again worship of God in heaven shall again be focussed on Israel. Indeed God will still be in heaven as He was when he first visited in His Son. Submission to God will invilve accepting His rule through the Son.
See ps 2
” 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
NHYou say…
Quote
So the Lord God returns again in the vessel of the Son as Spirit to stand on the mountains then rule from Jerusalem. Again worship of God in heaven shall again be focussed on Israel. Indeed God will still be in heaven as He was when he first visited in His Son. Submission to God will invilve accepting His rule through the Son.
More inference!!!Why dont you just believe YHWH, the Lord when he says “His Feet” will stand on the mount.
There is no indication in Zech 14 that it is refering to “An Agent of his”.
Speculation at best, and definately inference!
Hi w,
All Heaven cannot contain God but His feet will stand on earth??
Will God leave heaven to do this?
Your God is too small.
?Man sized.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,16:02) Hi w,
All Heaven cannot contain God but His feet will stand on earth??
Will God leave heaven to do this?
Your God is too small.
?Man sized.
NHIt is your God that is to small, because apparantly your God cant leave heaven!!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,22:16) Hi W,
Has your God left heaven?
Scripture please.
NHGen 3:8
And they heard *the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day*: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.Gen 11:7
*Go to, let us go down*, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.Gen 18:21
*I will go down now, and see* whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.Pss 139:
6 *Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it*.
7 *Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?*
8 If I ascend up into heaven, *thou art there*: if I make my bed in hell, behold, *thou art there*.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10]Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
My God can go anywhere he pleases for he is everywhere at the same time. He fills all things.Hi W,
Not one of the verses quoted by you says God leaves heaven.
When Paul was in Athens he said God was not far from them.
But was God still in heaven?
And Ps 139 says
“7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.”
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, but Christ said
“Our Father Who art in heaven..”Anyone agree that God ever leaves heaven?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2007,06:35) Hi W,
Not one of the verses quoted by you says God leaves heaven.
When Paul was in Athens he said God was not far from them.
But was God still in heaven?
And Ps 139 says
“7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.”
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, but Christ said
“Our Father Who art in heaven..”Anyone agree that God ever leaves heaven?
NHDont you get it.
God is Spirit. He has no physical for other than the Body of Jesus.
He dwells everywhere.
The heavens cannot contain him.
Hi W,
God is not an amorphous being of Spirit alone
or those who make God's Spirit another person would have no arguments.Is 42
' 1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”God is soul and Spirit and resides in His Throne, heaven, while manifesting in men and throughout His creation. While He was manifest IN CHRIST, Jesus still told us to pray to the Father in Heaven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2007,08:14) Hi W,
God is not an amorphous being of Spirit alone
or those who make God's Spirit another person would have no arguments.Is 42
' 1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”God is soul and Spirit and resides in His Throne, heaven, while manifesting in men and throughout His creation. While He was manifest IN CHRIST, Jesus still told us to pray to the Father in Heaven.
NHWhere is this word “amorphous” found in scripture.
Heaven is a realm. The Kingdom of God or heaven is within us.
Heaven is the Rule of God. Heaven is his throne and the earth is his footstool.
Isa 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The *heaven is my throne*, and the earth is my footstool: *where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest*?Acts 7:49
*Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool*: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?Why do you limit God who is Spirit to a “Natural, Physical” place?
God who is Spirit does not live in a place like you have percieved in your natural mind.
The Kingdom of God is within us, why? Because God is within us.
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