Upon this rock, Jesus Christ built his Church

Balancing Rock Girraween

For many Christian denominations, the foundation of their faith is usually a version of the Trinity Doctrine in some form. But is this doctrine really the true foundation of the Church? Let’s take a look at the actual foundation that Jesus Christ built his Church on.

Matthew 16:13-18
13 Jesus came into the country of Caesarea Philippi. He asked His followers, “Who do people say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 They said, “Some say You are John the Baptist and some say Elijah and others say Jeremiah or one of the early preachers.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 Jesus said to him, “Simon, son of Jonah, you are happy because you did not learn this from man. My Father in heaven has shown you this.
18 “And I tell you that you are Peter. On this rock I will build My church. The powers of hell will not be able to have power over My church.

Read the above clearly. Jesus did not build his Church on Peter. He built it on the truth that Peter spoke concerning the true identity of Jesus Christ. And what was that truth? That Jesus is the Son of God and the Christ.

Peter did not say that Jesus was God or one member of a triune God, yet that is the foundation for many. So what is it that tries to fight against the true foundation? Is it not the Gates of Hell that is trying to prevail against this truth. But for what benefit is there to attack the true foundation of the Church, which is the Body of Christ?

Here is the thing. Roman Catholics believe that the foundation was Peter and this is where their line of Popes supposedly comes from. They also believe that the foundation of their faith is the Trinity Doctrine. Not only are they wrong, but their fruit over the centuries proves that this tree was not good.

So which is it? The Catholic faith or the true faith?

Many do not realise that they side with the Catholic faith. However, it is true that this faith and foundation cannot sustain eternally any work built upon her.

For they labour in vain those who build on another foundation.

Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 8:6: for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

He also wrote in Ephesians 4:5-6: one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

And Jesus said it so clearly in John 17:3: Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Are you willing to believe the truth about who God is and who Jesus is over any contrary tradition that was passed down to you?

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  • #803150
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8…….There is only ONE true rock. And that is GOD THE FATHER

    The word ‘rock’ has certain meanings like ‘solid platform’. Of course God is the only rock when you compare him with others.

    But the word rock can be used of other things too. If you do not believe that, then Jesus shouldn’t have renamed Simon to Peter (Petros). And we are living stones too.

    Sure God is the big rock, but that doesn’t disallow other uses of rock or stone in different contexts and remember that there are literal rocks too that are not false rocks.

    Now take a look at Matthew 7:24-27.  We are told to build our house on the rock. And yes you could argue that we should build our lives on God. That is true. But the verse actually tells you what the meaning of rock in the verse is. Let’s take a look:

    24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

    The rock here is symbolic of hearing the words of Jesus Christ and doing what he said. If you disagree, then take the argument up with Jesus Christ as he is the one who said this.

    #803173
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…..The words of Jesus, were not “HIS” words, but the words of him who sent him, and that was GOD THE FATHER, he is the only true ROCK, so it is HIS WORDS, we are to build our foundation on not JESUS’ words, the same applies, as the FATHER IS THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD.

    peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene

    #803174
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all……HERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE I BELIEVE, the sun is the source of the light on this earth, if i say the moon is also a source of that light, i would be wrong, because the moon simply reflects the light “from” the sun, so it is with JESUS, and all true sons of GOD are as stars, and AS JESUS, REFLECT the light OF GOD, BUT WE ARE NOT THE SOURCE OF IT, GOD IS, WE SIMPLY REFLECT IT. IMO

    peace and love to you all and yours. ……………..gene

    #803181
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    The sun moon is false analogy as the use of the word “rock” is symbolic. As t8 points out “rock” symbolized obedience to Jesus’ teaching and terrarica points out it symbolizes the kingdom of heaven in yet another one.

    It is also considers details that Scripture ignores as in Genesis 1:14-16 both the sun and the moon are called lights. The only difference is one is called the greater light and the other is called the lesser light. Scientists have discovered the moon reflects the light but God did not care to teach us that.

    #803187
    942767
    Participant

    Hi AndrewAD:

    The scripture states that “they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them” , and that rock was Christ.  So, what is the “spiritual rock that they drank”?  Are you saying that they drank the incarnate Jesus?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #803188
    942767
    Participant

    Hi Gene:

    You are correct in saying that the Words that Jesus spoke did not originate with him, but Gene, he is the rock because he obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross.

    And each of us, including the Apostle Peter whose name was changed to “Peter or Pertros” which defined is “a rock or a stone” because he and we are also rocks, or living stones being built on the foundation that was laid and together are the temple of the living God if we are obeying the Word of God, and the Holy Ghost dwells within us.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #803191
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Yes Marty,it was spiritual and literal drinking of spiritual and literal waters and it was Paul’s Christ .

    All blessings to thee and thine!!

    #803196
    942767
    Participant

    Hi AndrewAD:

    So, the incarnate Christ was  spiritual and literal waters that they drank?

    Don’t you think that this spiritual drink was “the Word of God that was preached to them”?

    Take a look at the following scripture:

    Hebrews 4Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)

    4 We may fear, then, lest a promise being left of entering into His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short,
    2 for we also are having good news proclaimed, even as they, but the word heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard,
    3 for we do enter into the rest — we who did believe, as He said, `So I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest — ;’ and yet the works were done from the foundation of the world,
    4 for He spake in a certain place concerning the seventh [day] thus: `And God did rest in the seventh day from all His works;’
    5 and in this [place] again, `If they shall enter into My rest — ;’
    6 since then, it remaineth for certain to enter into it, and those who did first hear good news entered not in because of unbelief —
    7 again He doth limit

    Compare the the above scripture to 1 Co. 10 in context:

    10 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
    2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea;
    3 and all the same spiritual food did eat,
    4 and all the same spiritual drink did drink, for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was the Christ;
    5 but in the most of them God was not well pleased, for they were strewn in the wilderness,
    6 and those things became types of us, for our not passionately desiring evil things, as also these did desire.
    7 Neither become ye idolaters, as certain of them, as it hath been written, `The people sat down to eat and to drink, and stood up to play;’

    (So, what do you think AndrewAD, is this what the Apostle Paul was speaking of?)

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

     

    #803231
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8…..The words of Jesus, were not “HIS” words, but the words of him who sent him, and that was GOD THE FATHER, he is the only true ROCK, so it is HIS WORDS, we are to build our foundation on not JESUS’ words, the same applies, as the FATHER IS THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD.

    Your denial of Jesus teaching did not go unnoticed Gene. Jesus always spoke that which is Father spoke, so yes they are the Father’s words. But that doesn’t negate that the rock in that verse was symbolic of hearing the words of Jesus Christ who spoke in accordance with the Father.

    The rock here is not God himself is it Gene, whether God spoke through him or not.

    Matthew 7:24-27
    24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

    See that. It is not talking about God as the rock, but hearing the words and then doing them.

    If you stubbornly insist that the rock in this passage is God himself, then please explain to me who ‘sand’ is?

    Rock is God, Sand is?

    #803242
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…..IF YOU HEAR THE WORDS OF JESUS, you are hearing the words of God the Father, because what do you think Jesus meant when he said clearly the words he was speaking to us were “NOT” HIS WORDS, BUT THE WORDS OF HIM WHO SENT HIM? And again ,”the son of man can do nothing of or from himself”, and again, “he that has seen me has not seen me, but the FATHER WHO HAS SENT ME”, and again “if you do not believe the Father is “In” me, then believe in the MIRCALES”. and again, “the son of man can so “nothing” of himself, the FATHER that is “IN” HIM “HE” DOES THE WORKS.”

    THE “ROCK” IS THE POWER OF GOD, CAUSING THE REAVELATION AND CONVICTION OF THE TRUTH “IN” THE MIND OF THOSE WHO HE IS CALLING. And that is the “ROCK” that Chrst Jesus is buildibg the church on, and the gates of hell can not prevail against it. It is not Jesus himself or Peter, but God the Father, he alone is the “ONLY TRUE ROCK”. Haven’t you read where Jesus clearly said, “NO” MAN “CAN”, COME UNTO ME, EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAW HIM.

    T8 what you and others are doing is robbing God the Father, and paying JESUS and others. While there is no other “true” foundation that can be layed, which will indure, then that which has been laid, the “whole” building is a work of GOD and fitted together by him no matter who he uses to build on it with, they are all his laborers, called and chosen by him alone. He alone is the ROCK all the true builders trust in him, as their “ROCK “AND GOD, and that includes Jesus, and the apostles and all true believers also. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

    #803244
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Marty……JESUS DID NOT EVER SAY HE WAS A ROCK, WHAT HE SAID WAS “upon “THIS” rock he would build the church,” that Rock was God the Fathers power to get into the minds of people and reaveal the truth to them, just like GOD did to Peter, Jesus was not talking about himself or Peter. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

    #803268
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8…..IF YOU HEAR THE WORDS OF JESUS, you are hearing the words of God the Father, because what do you think Jesus meant when he said clearly the words he was speaking to us were “NOT” HIS WORDS, BUT THE WORDS OF HIM WHO SENT HIM?

    Gene, your mind seems to be clouded as you are unable to see the obvious. Yes what you say is true, but the rock in this context is still about those Jesus said: “who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. In case there was any doubt he further said:  “But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand“.

    So if God is the rock in this passage of scripture, then who is the sand? Is that the Devil? See how silly your stubbornness is?

    There is no excuse for not hearing Jesus own words which are as you point out the words of the Father. Just accept his words as they are and let them teach you and develop your theology on these pillars of truth, rather than stick to your guns and interpret everything through your own foundational lens.

    A person who loves God and his son also loves truth. If we are not truthful, then that is a reflection of what we really think about God and his son. If the word ‘rock’ is used in different ways like the word ‘water’ for example, then red each scripture in context and try and learn the truth of the parable rather than sticking with a man-made tenet and making everything fit your own understanding. After all, this is what those who forward the Trinity Doctrine do. Why do the same? Stubbornness is for goats, not sheep.

    #803269
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Marty……JESUS DID NOT EVER SAY HE WAS A ROCK, WHAT HE SAID WAS “upon “THIS” rock he would build the church,” that Rock was God the Fathers power to get into the minds of people and reaveal the truth to them, just like GOD did to Peter, Jesus was not talking about himself or Peter. IMO

    Your opinion is wrong. It was the confession Peter made as to who Jesus is. And Jesus built his Church on that truth. There you are again starting with your own theology and making scripture fit your view. Please stop this. A warning is given about those who oppose this. Guess the identity. The answer is the “Gates of Hell” will not overcome it. So it is from Hell itself to try. Jesus said that his sheep hear his voice. Stop being stubborn like a goat and become a sheep that hears his voice. Being obstinate is bad fruit that reflects a bad root or at least a troubled heart.

    #803276
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…..You should heed your own words if you ask me, Jesus ask Peter who he thought he was, and Peter replied, you are christ the son of the LIVING GOD , and Jesus responed saying, blessed are you Simon Barjona, ( now please pay attation) for “flesh and blood” , did not reaveal that unto you (Jesus was flesh and blood), but MY Father who is in heaven has “reavealed” it unto you, Jesus was not the one who reavealed who he was unto Peter, it was God the Father himself that did, and Jesus went on to say this, and i say you, you are Peter, (another words, Jesus had reveling knowledge from GOD also, and by that, he know who Peter was also, it was by that same reveling knowledge, from GOD the Father) and he reconized who Peter was to, it was exactly the same power that enabled Peter to reconize who he was.

    THAT was the “ROCK”, THAT JESUS SAID HE WOULD BUILD THE CHURCH ON, IT WAS THE POWER OF GOD THE FATHER TO REAVEAL IN THE MIND OF PEOPLE WHO HE WAS, THAT IS EXACTLY WHY JESUS SAID “NO” MAN “CAN” COME UNTO ME, EXCEPT THE FATHER “DRAW” HIM. GOD THE FATHER DRAWS US TO JESUS BY REAVEALING WHO JESUS IS the same as HE DID PETER. HE IS THE ROCK JESUS TRUSTED IN TO BUILD THE CHURCH.

    The “ROCK” that builds the church is GOD THE FATHER, I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING THE GOAT on this one T8, NOT ME. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene

    #803277
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    THAT was the “ROCK”, THAT JESUS SAID HE WOULD BUILD THE CHURCH ON, IT WAS THE POWER OF GOD THE FATHER TO REAVEAL IN THE MIND OF PEOPLE WHO HE WAS

    Stubborn to the end by the look of it. You are allowed to disagree with Jesus words, but we know that HE indeed speaks but only what he hears the Father saying. That means he still speaks, but in accordance with the Father’s will. So yes his words are indeed God’s words but that was never in question, so no need to bring that up as if we were debating that.

    What was questioned is your assumption that this rock and other rocks mentioned are all God the Father himself. We have clearly showed you otherwise. Either humble yourself and admit that this is not the case, or continue on like a goat. I am picking that you will act like a goat. But I would also like to be proved wrong on that.

    #803278
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Sheep and goat

    #803287
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…….What I was addressing was what JESUS SAID TO PETER CONCERNING THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTED, NOW YOU HAVE BROADENED IT TO TAKE IN EVERY TIME THE WORD ROCK IS MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURE, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. LIKE where God brought water out of the rock for the childern of ISREAL IN THE WILDERNESS, ANY FOOL KNOWS THAT. I AM SPEAKING ABOUT SPECIFIC SCRIPTURES, LIKE where JESUS TOLD PETER WHAT HE WOULD BUILD THE CHURCH ON, AND THAT WAS THE ROCK I AM ADDRESSING HERE AND THAT ROCK WAD THE “POWER” OF GOD THE FATHER TO GET INTO THE MINDS OF PEOPLE AND REAVEAL THE TRUTH TO THEM, AND THAT WAS WHAT JESUS WAD GOING TOBUILD THE CHURCH ON.

    I BELIEVE EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THAT, EXCEPT YOU IT APPEARS. THE SPECIFIC PLACES I MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURES CLEARLY SHOW GOD THE FATHER IS THE ROCK BEING MENTIONED THERE, I EVEN LISTED THOSES SCRIPTURES FOR ALL TO SEE where GOD was the ROCK being mentioned. GO BACK AND READ THEM AND SEE IF THEY ARE NOT REFERENCING TO GOD HIMSELF, BEFORE YOU BEGAIN YOUR PERSONAL ASULTS ON ME, AND SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE EVER SAID EVERY TIME THE WORD ROCK IS USED IN SCRIPTURES it “ALWAYS” REPRESENT GOD THE FATHER. Your accusitory words against me fit you more accurately if you ask me.

    peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene

    #803288
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…..ANOTHER POINT, even IN SCRIPTURE JESUS IS PORTRAYED AS A GOAT, THE “ESCAPE GOAT” WHO WAS LEAD OUT INTO THE WILDERNES TO DIE, FOR THE SIN OF PEOPLE. SO GOATS ARE NOT ALWAY BAD IN SCRIPTURES, NOR ARE THEY PORTRAYED AS STUBBORN EITHER. AT LEAST I CAN’T RECALL ANY PLACE WHERE THEY ARE.

    YOU ASSUME A LOT OF THINGS T8,LIKE JESUS PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH ALSO. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene

    #803290
    942767
    Participant

    Hi Gene:

    When anyone builds a building, it is built upon a foundation, and Jesus stated that he would build his church upon “this rock”. So, is he speaking about building his church upon a foundation. I believe that he is based upon this scripture:

    Matthew 7:

    24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

    25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

    And so, specifically, the rock are “the sayings that came from God through him”, and I stated that “he is the rock in that he obeyed the Word of God unto death on the cross”.

    If the foundation is the rock upon that church is to be built, this is what the scripture state:

    1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ

    But the scriptures state that “In the beginning was the Word”, and so, God has spoken to humanity from the beginning, and the scriptures state:

    Ephesians 2:

    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    And

    Hebrews 1King James Version (KJV)

    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    But when the Apostle Paul speaks “that those in the wilderness ate and drank of the spiritual rock that followed them”, he is not speaking of some pre-existent Jesus Christ, but all of the scriptures point to the Word of God that would be fulfilled through him. The Exodus, the baptism unto Moses, the passover lamb, the unleavened bread, the Ten Commandments, the Manna from heaven and so forth. All of this was what would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It is the Word of God that was symbolically and prophetically spoke about Jesus Christ.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #803293
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8…..ANOTHER POINT, even IN SCRIPTURE JESUS IS PORTRAYED AS A GOAT, THE “ESCAPE GOAT” WHO WAS LEAD OUT INTO THE WILDERNES TO DIE, FOR THE SIN OF PEOPLE. SO GOATS ARE NOT ALWAY BAD IN SCRIPTURES, NOR ARE THEY PORTRAYED AS STUBBORN EITHER. AT LEAST I CAN’T RECALL ANY PLACE WHERE THEY ARE.

    So you are defending that idea that you are a goat? Ironically, you say that not all goats are bad and yet contest that not all rocks in scripture are the Father. lol.

    When Jesus said, “upon this rock I will build my Church” he was talking about what Peter said about who Jesus was. Do you agree now, or are you going to remain stubborn and teach that Jesus was talking about the Father as that rock?

    We clearly pointed out what the rock was in that scripture and you argued that because the Old Testament says God is the rock, then that applied to here too. We told you correctly that Jesus built his Church on Peter’s true confession as to the identity of Jesus. We also told you correctly that the Gates of Hell is what is trying to prevail against this rock. Yet you continue to try and overcome this truth and then muddy the water by introducing other arguments to distract from this one.

    No good thing can come when you start acting like a stubborn goat. But if you behave like a sheep belonging to the shepherd, then you will hear the shepherd’s words and understand what the shepherd meant when he said “upon this rock I will build my Church”.

    I will continue to contest anyone here who brings false teaching.

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