Is Jesus the Logos?

The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

Viewing 20 posts - 801 through 820 (of 25,957 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #100459
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick…….the word Elohim simple means (POWERS) a plural form of Power anyone with powers can be considered an elohim as Jesus plainly said they were gods, But the word Lord God is different, the word Lord (His exists) and GOD means HE who EXISTS with POWERS. He is the ONE AND (ONLY) TRUE GOD>

    #100462
    gsilva72
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    Where are you getting the definition for elohim. Also, the word God means supreme being. :)

    #100464
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 06 2008,16:31)
    Hi Mandy,
    Thanks for bumping. Of course you might have meant it for Pulivarthy, he is my friend from India a believer of Trinity.

    I want the attention of brother Nick on Jn 1:1
    If he believes the 'word' was another apart from the person God then he is making two Gods in the beginning.

    Love to you
    Adam


    Hi Adam,

    Thanks for inviting your friend to the site! It will be nice to see his viewpoint and get to know him.

    I think I may have chatted with him earlier and thought he believed in the Oneness doctrine?

    Mandy

    #100482
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    You say
    “Nick…….the word Elohim simple means (POWERS) a plural form of Power anyone with powers can be considered an elohim as Jesus plainly said they were gods, But the word Lord God is different, the word Lord (His exists) and GOD means HE who EXISTS with POWERS. He is the ONE AND (ONLY) TRUE GOD> “

    So what are these principalities and POWERS in scripture?
    Seems rather they are beings on high with evil influence over men.

    Romans 8:38
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    Ephesians 3:10
    To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    Ephesians 6:12
    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Colossians 1:16
    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Colossians 2:15
    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    #100488
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick……whats your point ?

    #100499
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    Just further clarifying scripture.

    #100503
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick……..Are we talking about the Word Power meaning Elohim or Just that powers can even infer demoniacs of some kind. This might help, when Jesus up breaded the Pharisees by saying they were gods, He was referencing a scripture in Plasm where The elders of Israel were being scolded for not doing there Job as rulers of Israel they were in GOD stead and were given the power by God and they were supposed to have ruled in God's behalf with His judgments and that was the same thing the Pharisees were supposed to have done at the time of Christ. I don't think we are not in agreement on the word but i am not sure.

    peace………gene

    #100505
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    There is a satanic kingdom and natural men are affected by the god of this world.
    Clearly there are spiritual beings on high under satan that are powerful and strongly influence the thoughts and behaviours of men on earth. Their demonic underlings are their earthly minions within man and Jesus came to set men free to instead serve the One true God.

    #100509
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick….so Jesus came to set men free from demonic influences from out side forces and not from their own evil influences with in them. But Jesus called them Evil, saying if you being Evil know how to give good gifts, etc, I believe Jesus came to set men free from their own sinful matures not some out side force causing them to sin. The general state of man is contrary to God is not subject to his laws neither can be just as it says. The adversaries are us not some unknown forces jumping in and out of people, men are held accountable for their sin not some one else.

    Devils, demons, Satan's are all products of Mythology of pagan origins and everything the people at the time of Christ which they couldn't explain they attributed to some form of demons or devils and stems all the way back to the ancient Egyptians, who worshiped demonic powers in the pagan religions.

    #100510
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    Is there any record of Jesus casting out the evil natures of men?
    There is of his work against the demonic spirits.

    Again I ask you was Jesus influenced by pagan mythology or was he the TRUTH?

    #100513
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick……Jesus dealt with people on their level of thinking, These people only understood their term and language, to them when a person had a epileptic attack they thought it was a demon when in fact it was not. You need to realize they did not know any better, You don't see people going around saying people are having demons jump in and out of them now days, science and medicine has come a long way sense those days. Multiple personalities disorders are not demonic influences taking over people but real mental illness that effect there lives. Attributing man Evil to a Devil and demons is just an excuse to justify our own Evil behavior a cop out if you will.Terms like the devil made me do it is false it was our own lusts and desires that made us do it, and needs to be repented of. We are ALL held accountable Just like Jesus held Peter and Judas accountable for what they did.We are not told to God to God and ask to be forgiven what “Satan” caused us to do, but what we ourselves did. imo

    #100515
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    So the TRUTH spoke myths and legends to those who could only cope at that level??

    So his words are not truth everlasting?

    Matthew 24:35
    ” Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    Mark 13:31
    “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    Luke 21:33
    ” Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    #100518
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick…..I know what you are saying but you need to understand Jesus spoke on there level, so they could understand, TO them who believed demons had taken over a person it was like they were removed when GOD healed them. If i were or could walk into a mental institution today and God were to heal everyone in there not one person would think that God drove out demons, they would think God heal them of a mental disorder, Why because Knowledge has greatly increased as scripture said it would, and we need to adjust to that knowledge also. Scripture was written with the knowledge of that time and the mentality of that time we have to always remember that. There has been a lot of truth discovered sense then. imo

    #100521
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gb,
    So cultural context was what ruled Jesus and he cast out demons in the context that he found them?
    But such forces no longer exist for the great physician to cure?

    #100557
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi brothers I think you slightly deviated from the Topic “John 1:1”.

    Please come back.
    Thanks
    Adam

    #100604
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Adam…. your right, John 1:1, if read (EXACTLY) as written without changing any letters by capitalizing some and not capitalizing other and not putting any preconceived ideologies into the wording and excepting the word for there direct meaning will, come out that the word (expressed Intellect) was with and was God himself.

    love and peace brother to you and yours…………gene

    #100616
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    You have just done exactly what you advised against.
    You just inserted the word INTELLECT.

    #100652
    pulivarthy
    Participant

    hi nick & GB,
    it is neither intellect nor mind.before creation it was the name(identification) of God, as I am identified by name.Naming of Adam also was given by God and we learned importance of word and languages through God.Therefore , Word means ,it could be name of God 'I am ” or 'Jehova” which was the source of evrery thing.
    pulivarthy sarath babu(PSB)

    #100688
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,06:24)
    Hi GB,
    You have just done exactly what you advised against.
    You just inserted the word INTELLECT.


    Nick…..I did not change anything a WORD is the expression of ones intellect, thats how we communicate right, i did not change anything i simple gave its meaning as all words have meaning, or they are just gibberish right, A word Is the expression of ones intellect and you full well know that. Lets not try to be contrary with each other for just the sake of being contrary brother.

    peace to you…….gene

    #100706
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    I cannot find “intellect” in scripture.
    Why add to scripture?

Viewing 20 posts - 801 through 820 (of 25,957 total)
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