Is Jesus the Logos?

The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

Viewing 20 posts - 761 through 780 (of 25,957 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #93411
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gm,
    It does not say God was the Word though does it?
    It does say the Word was with God-three times.

    #93413
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Please see the Greek, it says “God was the word”

    #93414
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gm,
    Can our God be an expression of our God?

    #93415
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Then who was the God that was with the Word?

    #93416
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    “God is love”, “God is Spirit”, “God is wisdom” all these words are available in the Bible which only express His attributes not that God is only all love or all Spirit or all wisdom or all word. IMO

    #93417
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    I agree.

    God is no form of His expression.
    He is not an image or any of His words
    So our God was not the WORD spoken of in 1Jn.

    #93418
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    God does all things by His commanding words.
    He says and it happens.

    His way of communicating with men to is by His words.
    One with Him in the beginning was the ultimate mouthpiece of Himself to men.

    God calls him the Word.
    John testified that he had met him.

    1Jn1
    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

    2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    #93421
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    1.you say “His way of communicating with men to is by His words.
    One with Him in the beginning was the ultimate mouthpiece of Himself to men”.

    Where is the proof for this and who was the being acted as mouthpiece of God in O.T?

    2.Also “God calls him the Word.John testified that he had met him”

    When did John met him; during Jesus earthly ministry or before?

    John was talking about “word of life” in 1 Jn1:1-2, it's nothing but God's own word how can he see this “word of life” as a person before his own birth forget about Jesus' preexistence?

    In this context I only believe Is 55:8-11

    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
    9 As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.
    10 For just as from the heavens the rain and snow come down And do not return there till they have watered the earth, making it fertile and fruitful, Giving seed to him who sows and bread to him who eats,
    11 So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; It shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it”

    That is what Jesus became to fulfill the very purpose of God what was intended by God Himself. Other than this I think every thing will be mere speculation.
    Peace to you
    Adam

    #93425
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Gollamudi….Jesus said the (words) i am telling you are (Spirit and Life) he also said GOD is SPIRIT, So the Word was God as stated in John 1:1. Jesus was manifested and God was in Him, So then The Word was also because the Word who is (GOD) was in Him, but He plainly said in 10 or 12 different places the words were (NOT) HIS. He spoke (GOD”S WORDS) TO US. God was in Him via the WORD, that was God in HIM. And God is in us by those same words that were in Jesus, and those words are SPIRIT, and LIFE>

    Peace to you…………gene
    It's so simple it amazes me why people can't get it, and you don't have to change the meaning of the text, just read it and accept it as it reads.

    #93493
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,01:53)
    Hi Nick,
    1.you say “His way of communicating with men to is by His words.
    One with Him in the beginning was the ultimate mouthpiece of Himself to men”.

    Where is the proof for this and who was the being acted as mouthpiece of God in O.T?

    2.Also “God calls him the Word.John testified that he had met him”

    When did John met him; during Jesus earthly ministry or before?

    John was talking about “word of life” in 1 Jn1:1-2, it's nothing but God's own word how can he see this “word of life” as a person before his own birth forget about Jesus' preexistence?

    In this context I only believe Is 55:8-11

    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
    9 As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.
    10 For just as from the heavens the rain and snow come down And do not return there till they have watered the earth, making it fertile and fruitful, Giving seed to him who sows and bread to him who eats,
    11 So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; It shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it”

    That is what Jesus became to fulfill the very purpose of God what was intended by God Himself. Other than this I think every thing will be mere speculation.
    Peace to you
    Adam


    Hi GM,
    You ask
    Where is the proof for this and who was the being acted as mouthpiece of God in O.T?

    Try Heb1
    1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

    #93494
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    John met him on earth.
    John did not see God's words.
    He saw his glory on the mountain.

    #93565
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    Then where is the question of Logos existing as person before Jesus' birth (on this earth). John saw Jesus' coming glory on the mountain in a vision not literally. Did Jesus had glory before his resurrection if he was praying ” Father, now the time has come to glorify thy son..”? (Jn 17:1-2).
    These are peoples' speculations as I have already told.
    Adam

    #93566
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Did they all share the same vision?
    How odd.

    #93578
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hello! brother,
    What is this question about?

    #93580
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

    5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

    7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

    8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

    9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    Visions are generally not a shared experience like apparitions.
    The word VISION here also means what they SAW

    #93592
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Then you answer my question that I have put you earlier, why Jesus was praying to Father for giving glory and “now the time has come to glorify thy son” if he was already in glory?

    #93607
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    He had glory.
    He emptied himself and came.
    Peter testified God gave him glory on the mountain.

    2Peter1
    16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

    17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

    But before his death he prayed for the glory he had with God again.

    Jn17
    1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

    2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    #93644
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    Simply quoting verses anybody can do but explain and answer my question above.

    #93648
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gm,
    He was seen in glory on the mountain only.

    #93653
    gollamudi
    Participant

    OK that's better way to come out of situation.

Viewing 20 posts - 761 through 780 (of 25,957 total)
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